Confirmed with Link: Kings acquire forward Viktor Arvidsson in exchange for two draft picks

[KingsFan7824]

This has been said many times.

Yes you can draft foundational players lower in the draft. Your chances are just lower the further down in the draft you go.

Improving the current team and trading away picks is an active decision to reduce the Kings chances of acquiring a foundational player.

So was re-signing Iafallo, Roy, and Walker. Playing Anderson, Bjornfot, and JAD at all made the Kings better, decreasing their chances at better players.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This has been said many times.

Yes you can draft foundational players lower in the draft. Your chances are just lower the further down in the draft you go.

Improving the current team and trading away picks is an active decision to reduce the Kings chances of acquiring a foundational player.

How many draft picks have the Kings moved that took them out of the running of drafting said foundational player since Blake took over as GM?

The most immediate name who fits that description that the Kings missed out on was Mat Barzal, and Dean Lombardi can take all the credit for that blunder, and again, that was also a pick made outside of the top 15.

I just don't see what you are concerned about. If the prospects actually improve, that's also going to remove the Kings from being in a position to draft this mythical foundational player.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

For the record I don't HATE the move. We didn't give up much, we've still got picks in each round of the draft. We could also potentially flip him if he turns things around.

I understand morale around the team is extremely low, and that's not a great environment to develop your young players in.

BUT, we need need young top tier talent to build the foundation of a contender. I know many disagree, but in my view the Kings are/were on track for a very high pick in 2022. And that pick could be a foundational player. Improving this current roster so we finish in the middle of the pack in the NHL seems like a waist of time, and it most likely ensures mediocrity.

There are only so many McDavid's and MacKinnon's...the Kings have drafted top tier talent in Byfield, Turcotte and perhaps the 8OA, 3 weeks from today and Kaliyev could attain that level. Kupari is not a stretch to be a top talent, either. Some of these players have to emerge to their potential to be elite. Look at Cole Caufield. He's perhaps on his way to being an elite player. Or elite-light. I watched every WJC game and recorded all USA and Canada games and have gone back and watched most all of them. Caufield did not make any kind of impact....was minus 1. 2 goals, 3 assists....and yet Turcotte was a 200 foot beast, plus 8 and 3 goals and 5 assists. Yes, was watching Zegras light the world up and kind of wishing he was King...but Alex was awesome and showed he was the catalyst of the line and did great. Some amazing last few minute heroics in the Gold medal game. I was so glad the Kings drafted him and NOT Caufield,
that some wanted to reach for him at #5OA.

Point? If Caufield can step in and put pucks in the net, play good 2 ways and make a few highlight reel plays....in the Stanley Cup semi finals and finals, no less...on his way to possible near elite status...why can't Turcotte? Why can't Byfield? And even Arthur? They can. A few had better. Players have to elevate, achieve and overcome to be their best, to become elite. Only 1 elite type McDavid, 'the next one' Shane Wright come along every 5 years. If Byfield or Turcotte do not near their potential, it is not necessarily the Kings fault. No, they did not take Zegras, over Turcotte, but 7 other teams did not either. And besides, let's see where Turcotte is in 2-3 yrs...Byfield in 2 years, Arty in 2-3 years. Hell, Kupari can be a slightly better version of Kempe and I'll take that any day.

And...the 'not so good defensively' Arthur Kaliyev was team leading plus 9 on Team USA.
Wait, he does not compete and only has that gifted shot...and PP weapon....how the Hell was he plus 9?

 

[johnjm22]

How many draft picks have the Kings moved that took them out of the running of drafting said foundational player since Blake took over as GM?

The most immediate name who fits that description that the Kings missed out on was Mat Barzal, and Dean Lombardi can take all the credit for that blunder, and again, that was also a pick made outside of the top 15.

I just don't see what you are concerned about. If the prospects actually improve, that's also going to remove the Kings from being in a position to draft this mythical foundational player.

I told you. I don't HATE the deal.

I generally like what Blake has done since being here.

I guess it largely comes down to what you think the Kings will be this upcoming season. I think they're on track to be one of the worst teams in the NHL. So might as well take advantage of it and try a get a top pick.

If you disagree and think the Kings won't be too bad, then I can see why this doesn't bother you because there's not much difference between picking 10thOA, 15th OA or whatever.

 

[BigKing]

@Herby

Pens = Crosby 1 OA; Malkin 2OA
Caps = Ovie 1 OA
Hawks = Kane 1 OA
Bolts = Stamkos 1OA; Hedman 2OA

You see the pattern. There are no guarantees of finishing that high either. Even then, Washington didn't win a Cup for an eternity with Ovie/Backstrom and--when they did-- the three other Top 5 scorers on the team were late first round picks from 24 and lower, including the leading scorer. Shit...their Top 9 scorers were all 1st round picks and Brett Connoly is the highest one in the group--outside of Ovie/Backstrom--at 6OA!

The Kings have a 2OA and a 5OA with an 8OA on tap. If they trade 8OA, it will probably be for someone that was also a high 1st round pick at one point in time. They've been accumulating 1st round picks and--if you want to bring up Stamkos as a Top 5 pick of TB for when they won--you can't count Doughty moving forward since he is still a very effective defenseman and a former 2OA pick. I mean, Hedman was drafted only one year after him and nobody is counting Hedman out in two years.

I'm not going to get in to it, but the counter argument to the above is the Edmonton Oilers and Buffalo Sabres. Even getting McDavid and Drai doesn't guarantee anything because you also have to draft a Duncan Keith or a Kucherov in the later rounds because the NHL is not the NBA and never will be.

You know I'm not a "just hold the prospects forever" type of guy, but I do think that a trade like the Arvidsson one is a smart move. I'm perfectly fine with an Eichel trade but I'm lower on what I would give up due to the injury concerns. Now, if you could do something smaller like 8OA for Reinhart and basically keep all of your prospects and add two legit wingers in one off-season, that's a nice step moving forward. You'd still have a lot of dry powder to make a move on the next malcontent star player that shows up: one definitely will.

 

[crassbonanza]

Sure, when you strip all context of the long-term purpose and view them in one-year vacuum.

How about the Cloutier trade? Is there context explaining that?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

How about the Cloutier trade? Is there context explaining that?

That’s a pretty random and irrelevant thing to bring up in this specific conversation. DL traded for Cloutier in 2006, not 2009. That wasn’t a team with a stocked pipeline seeking to improve and become more competitive. You still have to ice a roster even while going through the tear-down phase. It’s probably fair to say DL wanted “his” (read: Marc Crawford’s) guy in net during that phase instead of the excrement the Kings had been rolling out before DL was hired.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Perhaps this was Blake's Stoll/Greene/Williams trade.

Blake didn't trade picks for 3 drafts and got more from the tear down. Maybe we already have the foundation pieces. They're just developing and are about to break in.

I don't think this is the sole move. the cup still hasn't been awarded. There will be other moves.

 

[lumbergh]

know many disagree, but in my view the Kings are/were on track for a very high pick in 2022. And that pick could be a foundational player. Improving this current roster so we finish in the middle of the pack in the NHL seems like a waist of time, and it most likely ensures mediocrity.

I get what you're saying, but I guess I'm just not in to watching my team suck year after year. I watch this team for entertainment value. I don't know about you, but I actually like seeing the Kings compete and win games. It's like constipation watching the Kings trying to score most nights.

There's nothing better than playoff hockey, and I miss seeing the Kings play in the playoffs to the core. In addition, few teams are going to go straight into the playoffs and win the Cup. Kings needed to get into the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 to have the success in 2012.

You gotta stop tanking at some point. Or you could be the Buffalo Sabres.

 

[FSL KINGS]

NYR signed Panarin then got Lafrenier.

This is a good first step. While not an amazing move it charts a course & shows direction. Blake, through the Mayor, said he's looking for another forward & defender this year. Those may also not be home run swings. It's more important to load the bases before swinging for the fense. (Obligatory baseball reference)

The important part here is to create the image of an improving team so that they can bring in The Scuderi & Mitchell's.

The home run swings may not be available yet. There are a few coming up in the next couple of years.

 

[BigKing]

Perhaps this was Blake's Stoll/Greene/Williams trade.

Blake didn't trade picks for 3 drafts and got more from the tear down. Maybe we already have the foundation pieces. They're just developing and are about to break in.

I don't think this is the sole move. the cup still hasn't been awarded. There will be other moves.

He hasn't really traded any picks when you take into account they've pretty much all been picks in rounds where they had another pick in the same round.

That's my point about when do you start trying to get better: Blake has been drafting 1st and 2nd round picks for four drafts and is about to do so again for a fifth draft. Dean Lombardi drafted Forbort and Toffoli in his fifth draft. Seems pretty deep into the DL tenure, right?

It is definitely the time to stop sucking on purpose. Doesn't mean they will make the playoffs next year but it is time to try to actively make the team better. I do believe that is actually the goal but I'm also leaning towards Blake not moving any of his prized prospects to make that happen. Picks and maybe some of the 2nd/3rd tier prospects? He's open for business.

 

[crassbonanza]

That’s a pretty random and irrelevant thing to bring up in this specific conversation. DL traded for Cloutier in 2006, not 2009. That wasn’t a team with a stocked pipeline seeking to improve and become more competitive. You still have to ice a roster even while going through the tear-down phase. It’s probably fair to say DL wanted “his” (read: Marc Crawford’s) guy in net during that phase instead of the excrement the Kings had been rolling out before DL was hired.

I think it's relevant to the conversation. DL made moves to make the team better even during his rebuild phase. Notably trading a 2nd and a 3rd for Dan Cloutier. Which coincidentally is the same value we just traded for Arvidsson.

 

[TruKingFan]

I told you. I don't HATE the deal.

I generally like what Blake has done since being here.

I guess it largely comes down to what you think the Kings will be this upcoming season. I think they're on track to be one of the worst teams in the NHL. So might as well take advantage of it and try a get a top pick.

If you disagree and think the Kings won't be too bad, then I can see why this doesn't bother you because there's not much difference between picking 10thOA, 15th OA or whatever.

This really is the difference. You expect and want the Kings to suck in 21-22 all for the love of another lottery pick.

A lot of us would prefer that the Kings make moves to improve the roster now. We have great prospects and cap space.

Why would you want to sit through another year of the suck when an huge opportunity is out there to improve?

 

[Stimpythecat]

Now is the perfect time to make trades to snag quality skill/leadership players. Expansion draft issues or because of the flat cap.

 

[johnjm22]

This really is the difference. You expect and want the Kings to suck in 21-22 all for the love of another lottery pick.

A lot of us would prefer that the Kings make moves to improve the roster now. We have great prospects and cap space.

Why would you want to sit through another year of the suck when an huge opportunity is out there to improve?

I don't want to sit through another year of suck.

It's like working out. I don't want to do 200 push-ups today. It sucks. But I know it's what's best for me long term.

Regarding your last sentence. IMO, improving this team doesn't make it good. It makes it less bad.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I think it's relevant to the conversation. DL made moves to make the team better even during his rebuild phase. Notably trading a 2nd and a 3rd for Dan Cloutier. Which coincidentally is the same value we just traded for Arvidsson.

I’m not sure “make the team better” is the correct way to phrase it when you contrast with what he was saying about his plan when he was hired in 2006 to build an infrastructure and develop a pipeline of prospects. He wasn’t coming in to try to keep icing a middling playoff team.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I don't want to sit through another year of suck.

It's like working out. I don't want to do 200 push-ups today. It sucks. But I know it's what's best for me long term.

Regarding your last sentence. IMO, improving this team doesn't make it good. It makes it less bad.

Was it problematic for the late-aughts Kings to get “less bad”?

 

[johnjm22]

Was it problematic for the late-aughts Kings to get “less bad”?

Different situation.

It was clear we had a young foundational piece we were building around.

Right now none of our new wave of talent has done anything. We don't know what we have. We don't even know if Byfield will be good.

If QB and Vilardi score 60 each this season, then by all means start adding to the roster next off season.

 

[Gjwrams]

This has been said many times.

Yes you can draft foundational players lower in the draft. Your chances are just lower the further down in the draft you go.

Improving the current team and trading away picks is an active decision to reduce the Kings chances of acquiring a foundational player.

I don't want to sit through another year of suck.

It's like working out. I don't want to do 200 push-ups today. It sucks. But I know it's what's best for me long term.

Regarding your last sentence. IMO, improving this team doesn't make it good. It makes it less bad.

No. You are getting better or getting worse. I view things in terms of direction. You are viewing things relative to one another. VA makes the Kings better in my opinion. VA makes the Kings suck less in your opinion. My view means the Kings are closer to the playoffs, Your view means the Kings are further away from a lottery pick.

Now, I understand you don't want the Kings to suck and want them to be great again. You think they can win a cup faster by "sucking" more this year. I disagree, because with or without the AA trade, I don't think the Kings were going to be a bottom 5 team this year to have decent odds of getting the "Generational" pick. For me it's about being a playoff team. Start winning. You've got to get in it to win it.

 

[cyclones22]

You need to add players now who can help QB and Vilardi score 60 points each. If you're expecting Vilardi and QB to both carry lines at their ages and experience, then that's a big ask for a player who has played his first full season in about 4 years and a soon to be 19 year old. You need to surround them with the talent to compliment them. Someone like VA also helps Arty. That type of presence allows him to roam free and get into goal scoring areas without the puck. Let's be clear, the Kings have the best center prospect depth in the league. You do what you can to provide those prospects the support to turn them from prospects into players.

 

[TwzKing]

I get what people are complaining about. If the kings are sent with dynamic young prospects i would want to suck knw more year. However I would be more worried about having a loser culture like Buffalo/Oilers etc. With management just letting the team stagnate. I dont want to ruin the gems we have now.

I dont mind the move

 

[Schmooley]

If QB and Vilardi score 60 each this season, then by all means start adding to the roster next off season.

Byfield and Vilardi have a better chance to score 60 playing with Arvidsson than they do with Lizotte and Wagner.
Surrounding the young players with experienced NHLers that work hard and have been in the playoffs is smart.
We see how guys like Moore and Iafallo contribute to their linemates success and Arvidsson is a better version of them.

 

[crassbonanza]

I’m not sure “make the team better” is the correct way to phrase it when you contrast with what he was saying about his plan when he was hired in 2006 to build an infrastructure and develop a pipeline of prospects. He wasn’t coming in to try to keep icing a middling playoff team.

So he just threw away a 2nd and a 3rd round draft pick? I'm not sure why you make that trade if it isn't to make the team better.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I like to think of this deal as basically Carter for Arvidsson like another member mentioned.

 

[regulate]