Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season - The Luc and Rob ****show

[KingPuckChoo]

Toffoli not worth a 1st...unless the Kings were adding their 2nd round. If can get a second rounder for him, take it.

Muzzin is actually worth more than a 1st, though. Plus 6 is unreal on this team. And playing better of late...fully engaged and playing more physical.

Toffoli is a 40pt guy on a good contract and still in his prime, you get players like that every year between 15th to 30th overall; except, in the case of a draft, you're still gambling on whether that player will become a 40pt player or a bust, whereas with Toffoli you know based on past history that 40pts is a fact

that's a low first for me and any good GM

but for a bozo GM, it's possible that we'd get Brad Richardson for Toffoli

 

[KINGS17]

The problem with trading Muzzin or Martinez is that the Kings have exactly zero defensemen in Ontario or anywhere else who are even close to being able to step into an NHL job - let alone a top 4 role to replace the traded player. This is the real Lombardi (and to an extent Futa) legacy. How do you sell the paying fans (not the internet fans) the idea of paying to watch Ontario talent at Los Angeles prices? You can't trade every player for a draft pick...at some point you have to trade them for guys that can actually play in the league right now. This mass hysteria to corner the market on #1 picks is silly as well as completely unrealistic.

When you trade one of these guys, you have to get a vet defenseman in return (likely the team getting Martinez or Muzzin will be happy to do this for cap reasons) along with the prospects/picks, but they don't have to be top 4 quality.

As for the question of selling the paying fans, what do you think is going to happen to season ticket sales next year even with Martinez and Muzzin on the roster? It doesn't matter. Maybe they should lower prices until they straighten this mess out.

 

[tomd]

I think trade one of them, and you have to roll with Walker and one of the kids to see what you have....or you keep Muzzin and Martinez til they are 40 etc.

None of the guys in Ontario are anywhere close to playing NHL level defense...including Walker. That is painfully obvious. If you want to ruin them by throwing them in the NHL now on a full-time basis then you are just wasting more assets.

 

[tomd]

When you trade one of these guys, you have to get a vet defenseman in return (likely the team getting Martinez or Muzzin will be happy to do this for cap reasons), but they don't have to be top 4 quality.

As for the question of selling the paying fans, what do you think is going to happen to season ticket sales next year even with Martinez and Muzzin on the roster? It doesn't matter. Maybe they should lower prices until they straighten this mess out.

When you trade a top 4 defenseman you'd better have a younger one ready to step into that role. Otherwise, you have to go to free agency and pay $5-7 million for one or spend several years drafting and developing one. Throwing one of them away for a draft pick that will be 25-31 (most likely) is really risky.

I'm of the opinion that this team needs a continued shakeup but not a burn down and rebuild. It's just not realistic to do a total rebuild with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, and Quick due so much money for so many years. It would be totally different if they were all on expiring contracts...but they are not.

 

[KopitarFAN]

I could see Toffoli netting a 1st, though not in 2019, but in 2020 and if they take back some bad money, but in a 1 for 1 deal, likely a 2nd.

Martinez (assuming health) probably gets a pair of 2nd's, but we know bidding can get crazy for an affordable defenseman around the deadline.

Muzzin would absolutely fetch a 1st and then some.

 

[KINGS17]

When you trade a top 4 defenseman you'd better have a younger one ready to step into that role. Otherwise, you have to go to free agency and pay $5-7 million for one or spend several years drafting and developing one. Throwing one of them away for a draft pick that will be 25-31 (most likely) is really risky.

I'm of the opinion that this team needs a continued shakeup but not a burn down and rebuild. It's just not realistic to do a total rebuild with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, and Quick due so much money for so many years. It would be totally different if they were all on expiring contracts...but they are not.

Why? This team is going nowhere for the next few years at least. Just sign a vet to be a bridge contract, or have the other team include one in the trade. I think the Kings can do better than just a 1st round pick for these two players, they have to get prospects who are already being developed as well. This is where professional scouting in the AHL comes into play, and is very important to the future of this franchise.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I’d like to be hyped up about a rebuild but with this clueless management, it’s hard to be. Luc needs to go and be replaced.

 

[Fishhead]

None of the guys in Ontario are anywhere close to playing NHL level defense...including Walker. That is painfully obvious. If you want to ruin them by throwing them in the NHL now on a full-time basis then you are just wasting more assets.

I don’t necessarily think any of the guys that would be considered are in any danger of being ruined, outside of Clague. They are all 23 or 24 and outside of Brickley we know exactly what we have in them. Guys like Roy, Lintu, and McD don’t exacly have upside.

 

[tomd]

Why? This team is going nowhere for the next few years at least. Just sign a vet to be a bridge contract, or have the other team include one in the trade. I think the Kings can do better than just a 1st round pick for these two players, they have to get prospects who are already being developed as well. This is where professional scouting in the AHL comes into play, and is very important to the future of this franchise.

I explained why. It will cost just as much to replace Muzzin or Martinez in the open market...if not more. There is literally no one in Ontario or the prospect pool anywhere in the world that is ready to play NHL D. You want to roll the dice on a pick that will almost certainly be in the 25-31 range. Best case, you get a guy who is ready in 3 years. That is best case. I just don't think its a realistic strategy given the current long-term contracts that the Kings have in place. You have a different opinion. I think you're going to be complaining for a long time because it isn't going to work out the way you want it to.

 

[tomd]

I don’t necessarily think any of the guys that would be considered are in any danger of being ruined, outside of Clague. They are all 23 or 24 and outside of Brickley we know exactly what we have in them. Guys like Roy, Lintu, and McD don’t exacly have upside.

Guys like Roy, Lintu, and McD aren't even NHL caliber defensemen. Neither is Brickley at this point. Clague is exactly the guy I was referring to. He is the only one who has top 4 potential and he is at least 1 1/2 years away from regular NHL duty.

 

[KINGS17]

I explained why. It will cost just as much to replace Muzzin or Martinez in the open market...if not more. There is literally no one in Ontario or the prospect pool anywhere in the world that is ready to play NHL D. You want to roll the dice on a pick that will almost certainly be in the 25-31 range. Best case, you get a guy who is ready in 3 years. That is best case. I just don't think its a realistic strategy given the current long-term contracts that the Kings have in place. You have a different opinion. I think you're going to be complaining for a long time because it isn't going to work out the way you want it to.

No it won't. Here is a partial list of UFA defensemen who will not be re-signing with their existing teams next summer. You offer one or two of them 1-2 year deals, and that's it.

Bouwmeester - age 36
Hainsey - age 38
Lovejoy - age 35
Girardi - age 35
Coburn - age 34

None of these guys are breaking the bank on their next deal, and if you miss on one you simply move on to the next one, because it doesn't matter who the fillers happen to be as long as you aren't throwing the kids to the wolves.

Who knows what the fool Robitaille will do, I don't, but I know what should be done.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

The problem with trading Muzzin or Martinez is that the Kings have exactly zero defensemen in Ontario or anywhere else who are even close to being able to step into an NHL job - let alone a top 4 role to replace the traded player. This is the real Lombardi (and to an extent Futa) legacy. How do you sell the paying fans (not the internet fans) the idea of paying to watch Ontario talent at Los Angeles prices? You can't trade every player for a draft pick...at some point you have to trade them for guys that can actually play in the league right now. This mass hysteria to corner the market on #1 picks is silly as well as completely unrealistic.

I think trade one of them, and you have to roll with Walker and one of the kids to see what you have....or you keep Muzzin and Martinez til they are 40 etc.

When you trade one of these guys, you have to get a vet defenseman in return (likely the team getting Martinez or Muzzin will be happy to do this for cap reasons) along with the prospects/picks, but they don't have to be top 4 quality.

As for the question of selling the paying fans, what do you think is going to happen to season ticket sales next year even with Martinez and Muzzin on the roster? It doesn't matter. Maybe they should lower prices until they straighten this mess out.

None of the guys in Ontario are anywhere close to playing NHL level defense...including Walker. That is painfully obvious. If you want to ruin them by throwing them in the NHL now on a full-time basis then you are just wasting more assets.

When you trade a top 4 defenseman you'd better have a younger one ready to step into that role. Otherwise, you have to go to free agency and pay $5-7 million for one or spend several years drafting and developing one. Throwing one of them away for a draft pick that will be 25-31 (most likely) is really risky.

I'm of the opinion that this team needs a continued shakeup but not a burn down and rebuild. It's just not realistic to do a total rebuild with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, and Quick due so much money for so many years. It would be totally different if they were all on expiring contracts...but they are not.

Thanks all (again) for the input. And I stopped quoting people because I realized it was going to be excessive.

As a Pens fan I would love to get one of Muzzin or Martinez. The Pens have their first round pick for the next few years. And they also are apparently willing to deal Maatta. It really depends on how much GM Rutherford likes those two in order to get a 1st rounder involved.

Would something around Maatta for one of Muzzin or Martinez be of interest? Based on some of those posts it seems like LA would like a young, NHL-ready defender to replace whoever LA would trade.

Maatta's skating has been an issue with the way the Pens want to play. However, he was extremely solid with Schultz last playoffs. Schultz's skating and puck-moving ability insulated Maatta. Maatta still has his smarts though.

Maatta has been paired with Johnson and Oleksiak mostly (I think) this season and neither of them are on Schultz's level.

Oleksiak is also likely available.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Guys like Roy, Lintu, and McD aren't even NHL caliber defensemen. Neither is Brickley at this point. Clague is exactly the guy I was referring to. He is the only one who has top 4 potential and he is at least 1 1/2 years away from regular NHL duty.

I don't get this logic. We won't be competing to make the playoffs next year. Why not trade Muzzin and Martinez for picks instead of having them linger around and lose value and have contracts expire? We can absolutely fill a full defense roster without Martinez/Muzzin with the players we have.

Forbort/Doughty
Phaneuf/LaDue
Fantenburg/MacDermid + sign a vet defenseman on one year deal

What am I missing here? If Clague or Brickley show during training camp that they are ready for the NHL, then they get slotted in the roster as well. Will this defense be competitive? No. But we won't be competing for the cup until maybe 3+ years from now if they do a proper rebuild.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Thanks all (again) for the input. And I stopped quoting people because I realized it was going to be excessive.

As a Pens fan I would love to get one of Muzzin or Martinez. The Pens have their first round pick for the next few years. And they also are apparently willing to deal Maatta. It really depends on how much GM Rutherford likes those two in order to get a 1st rounder involved.

Would something around Maatta for one of Muzzin or Martinez be of interest? Based on some of those posts it seems like LA would like a young, NHL-ready defender to replace whoever LA would trade.

Maatta's skating has been an issue with the way the Pens want to play. However, he was extremely solid with Schultz last playoffs. Schultz's skating and puck-moving ability insulated Maatta. Maatta still has his smarts though.

Maatta has been paired with Johnson and Oleksiak mostly (I think) this season and neither of them are on Schultz's level.

Oleksiak is also likely available.

I don't think Kings/Pens make good trading partners for a deal around Martinez/Muzzin. We are about to start a rebuild/retool (call it what you want). We need mid- to high 1st rounders and/or prospects. Pens will probably make the playoffs this year, and won't have a good 1st. I think we can get better deals for these two elsewhere (no offense).

 

[Little Psycho]

 

[AlphaBravo]

Good news all around. Let's see what Brickley has to give.

 

[Herby]

This might be it for Brickley with the Kings, most accounts say he has played poorly in the AHL (and the stats back it up). He will be 24 in March so he's not really a kid. If he falls on his face he is probably non-tendered and they move on.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This might be it for Brickley with the Kings, most accounts say he has played poorly in the AHL (and the stats back it up). He will be 24 in March so he's not really a kid. If he falls on his face he is probably non-tendered and they move on.

Pretty much, but....at least they are doing the right thing, and giving him a look at the NHL level to see if he can handle it, even if he projects as a #5-#6, i think they keep him, use him to replace Phaneuf eventually etc.

 

[BigKing]

You can easily find some middling #6-7 vet in the off-season. Case in point: Folin to Philly last year. Blake could even go dumpster diving overseas for some Fantenberg-like trash.

If they are horrible now, why does replacing Martinez or Muzzin's spot matter? For this season, you bring up MacD who won't be "ruined" by being thrown in to the NHL since he is what he is.

Selling the fans on this current team is a moot point since that ship sailed a long time ago. Nobody is buying tickets for this team with 6/27 unless it is on StubHub from those of us that are carrying these anchors called season seats. Team still has insane pricing at retail as seats in 306 for last Saturday's game were like $100 a pop day of, as if the season hadn't started yet.

Besides, this team is sold by 11/8/32, Kempe's hair and the player's dogs. At this point, the marketing team's best chance at selling this trash for next season is Hughes. They should be trying to get the best chance at 1OA.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The twists and turns in the following 7 years, you couldn't predict it. To even attempt hinting at some of the things that have transpired would've been a fool's errand.

They are still butt hurt about trading Pearson.....there are 11 players on this Kings team with 3 or more goals. Tanner has 3 playing with Malkin. Mayor doesn't understand we need to move out those bad contacts and rebuild. Getting a top 3 pick and shedding bad contracts for picks now is the difference between a 3-5 years turaround or 10+ more years of crap.

My guess is they're just saying the Kings aren't going to tank from the word go. They might suck, even for a few years, but they won't tank on purpose. They will try, with whatever level of success/competence, to put a competitive team on the ice.

There's no shedding bad contracts. The closest they got to doing that is Pearson, but that's a relatively low hit for a still relatively young player that might have something left hidden somewhere. You might be able to trade the 1st this year, pre or post lottery, to get rid of Phaneuf. Nobody wants to see that happen though.

I don't think Kings/Pens make good trading partners for a deal around Martinez/Muzzin. We are about to start a rebuild/retool (call it what you want). We need mid- to high 1st rounders and/or prospects. Pens will probably make the playoffs this year, and won't have a good 1st. I think we can get better deals for these two elsewhere (no offense).

If people want trades to be made between now and the deadline, beggars can't be choosers. If we want to get choosey about what the Kings need in return, I think people need to prepare for most of this roster to still be here after the deadline, and through most of next season too.

 

[KINGS17]

This might be it for Brickley with the Kings, most accounts say he has played poorly in the AHL (and the stats back it up). He will be 24 in March so he's not really a kid. If he falls on his face he is probably non-tendered and they move on.

Yeah, Brickley was a lottery ticket. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. On to the next undrafted free agent college defenseman next summer.

 

[AlphaBravo]

The twists and turns in the following 7 years, you couldn't predict it. To even attempt hinting at some of the things that have transpired would've been a fool's errand.



My guess is they're just saying the Kings aren't going to tank from the word go. They might suck, even for a few years, but they won't tank on purpose. They will try, with whatever level of success/competence, to put a competitive team on the ice.

There's no shedding bad contracts. The closest they got to doing that is Pearson, but that's a relatively low hit for a still relatively young player that might have something left hidden somewhere. You might be able to trade the 1st this year, pre or post lottery, to get rid of Phaneuf. Nobody wants to see that happen though.



If people want trades to be made between now and the deadline, beggars can't be choosers. If we want to get choosey about what the Kings need in return, I think people need to prepare for most of this roster to still be here after the deadline, and through most of next season too.

I don't think trades should be made now. You get the best deals at the trade deadline.

 

[regulate]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Pearson is back to being a consistent player. Zero goals and one assist in the last 7 games.

 

[regulate]

Alec to IR.