Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season - The Luc and Rob ****show

[King'sPawn]

Everyone see what happens when you trade a player a year too late, or in Carter's case two years too late. Carter was going to age like a fine wine, right? For every player like a Mats Sundin there are probably 20 legit NHL players who had very good careers who age like a bottle of milk left out on the counter for a week.

The whole team is playing like crap. Like with Pearson, suddenly a player looks a lot better when he doesn't play on the Kings.

Nobody said Carter would age like fine wine. But Carter (like Kopitar) plays a style that doesn't break down his body (unlike Lucic). Carter still has a few good years in him.

 

[KINGS17]

The whole team is playing like crap. Like with Pearson, suddenly a player looks a lot better when he doesn't play on the Kings.

Nobody said Carter would age like fine wine. But Carter (like Kopitar) plays a style that doesn't break down his body (unlike Lucic). Carter still has a few good years in him.

KP,
Many people said Carter shouldn't be traded, and for a number of reasons. The high percentage move would have been to trade Carter two years ago instead of hanging onto the illusion of Stanley Cup contention.

Carter's style isn't akin to Lucic or Brown's, but their are still plenty of NHL players who play like Carter who haven't made it past age 34.

More questions. What does the whole team playing like crap have to do with it? Why should an organization wait until a player is playing like crap before trading him?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Dennis Bernstein is currently arguing on Twitter that getting a top two overall pick is not important because - get this - top two picks in the last few drafts have not won a Cup yet. Only older top two picks have won Cups.

Guy is an absolute dope.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The good thing about Carter is the real world dollars owed to him dramatically decrease starting next year:

19/20: $3 million
20/21: $2 million
21/22: $2 million

You may be able to find a penny pincher like Melnyk who is willing to bring him on for name recognition to sell some jerseys.

But K17 is right: you’re not going to get a significant asset for him at this point. He’s simply too old. If you can dump him for a 3rd or even a 2nd, take it and run. Same applies to Kovalchuk.

Toffoli and Muzzin can potentially fetch a good prospect/pick with the right trade partner.

 

[Bandit]

The good thing about Carter is the real world dollars owed to him dramatically decrease starting next year:

19/20: $3 million
20/21: $2 million
21/22: $2 million

You may be able to find a penny pincher like Melnyk who is willing to bring him on for name recognition to sell some jerseys.

But K17 is right: you’re not going to get a significant asset for him at this point. He’s simply too old. If you can dump him for a 3rd or even a 2nd, take it and run. Same applies to Kovalchuk.

Toffoli and Muzzin can potentially fetch a good prospect/pick with the right trade partner.

Yup. Ottawa or Arizona are prime targets.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Yup. Ottawa or Arizona are prime targets.

If OTT was willing to trade Alex Formenton or Julius Bergman for Carter straight up, I’d jump on it. I’d even take the guy they got for EK, Rudolf Balcers plus a 3rd as well, just to get rid of the cap hit.

I do think a Carter trade should come after the season. I know he looks like he’s a guy who has lost too much foot speed, but I’m willing to chalk that up to last seasons injury. We’ve seen it take players a year to recover from major ligament damage. So it wouldn’t surprise me to see Carter improve in the second half. Which should up his trade value.

 

[King'sPawn]

KP,
Many people said Carter shouldn't be traded, and for a number of reasons. The high percentage move would have been to trade Carter two years ago instead of hanging onto the illusion of Stanley Cup contention.

Carter's style isn't akin to Lucic or Brown's, but their are still plenty of NHL players who play like Carter who haven't made it past age 34.

More questions. What does the whole team playing like crap have to do with it? Why should an organization wait until a player is playing like crap before trading him?

Hey K17,

I completely understand. I was one who stated Carter shouldn't be traded. I might not have my stance clear. To clarify my particular stance about not trading Carter, I feel the Kings, if they were going to bring in younger players would have benefited from playing alongside a fairly consistent player in Carter in a top six role. I feel Pearson and Toffoli grew a lot playing with him, and feel he would have been a good transition piece as the Kings try to get younger. I also feel the Kings would have had to overpay on lesser talent for the same thing Carter brings, as opposed to keeping Carter on a good contract.

I'm more than willing to discuss this further, although maybe it would be better either to do so in a separate thread or in PMs so we don't derail the main point. Or if you want to say your piece and we can move on, that's fine too. We've argued these points to death over the years and I think, now that we all are in agreement it's time to move on, will just be a waste of arguing. I just wanted to contextualize my position of argument the past few years.

Onto the main point though, and to answer your question: the whole team playing like crap has everything to do with it. It's indicative that Carter isn't the one with the problem. It's an organization wide problem. Once he gets moved to another environment, I expect him to play better, and other teams should see how he would be a good fit on a contending team. He provides speed, skill, two-way play, and leadership. We're not seeing that on the Kings right now because the Kings are a tire fire.

 

[Oof]

AHAHAH KOVALCHUK IS KEEPING THE TANK ALIVE, CAN'T WORRY ABOUT HIS MINUTES IF HE CAN'T f***ING PLAY, this team makes me want to check myself into a psych ward

 

[Bandit]

Kovalchuk our for a month. Cool.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Ankle surgery. I think we have a better understanding of what was really going on with him.

 

[KINGS17]

In Soviet Russia, you don't break ankle, ankle breaks you. (Well at least as a potential trade asset.)

What a craptastic move the Kovalchuk signing is turning out to be.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Lol, good for Kovy, take Xmas off with the fam.

One less excuse for coach mustache making stupid decisions and pitching in on the disaster. Although, he has a new Russian to scratch, Blake filled the hole quickly.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

KP,
Many people said Carter shouldn't be traded, and for a number of reasons. The high percentage move would have been to trade Carter two years ago instead of hanging onto the illusion of Stanley Cup contention.

Carter's style isn't akin to Lucic or Brown's, but their are still plenty of NHL players who play like Carter who haven't made it past age 34.

More questions. What does the whole team playing like crap have to do with it? Why should an organization wait until a player is playing like crap before trading him?

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

If people aren't scoring, the offense and numbers go collectively down.

The good thing about Carter is the real world dollars owed to him dramatically decrease starting next year:

19/20: $3 million
20/21: $2 million
21/22: $2 million

You may be able to find a penny pincher like Melnyk who is willing to bring him on for name recognition to sell some jerseys.

But K17 is right: you’re not going to get a significant asset for him at this point. He’s simply too old. If you can dump him for a 3rd or even a 2nd, take it and run. Same applies to Kovalchuk.

Toffoli and Muzzin can potentially fetch a good prospect/pick with the right trade partner.

Tripe.

You and K17 will be pleasantly surprised about the return for Carter.

Look forward to you both eating your words on this one, people know what's up with Carter, if they want him they're not going to get him for a lowball prayer.

 

[KINGS17]

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

If people aren't scoring, the offense and numbers go collectively down.

Tripe.

You and K17 will be pleasantly surprised about the return for Carter.

Look forward to you both eating your words on this one, people know what's up with Carter, if they want him they're not going to get him for a lowball prayer.

I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse here. A 31-year old Carter is worth much more than a 34-year old Carter, and just as people in favor of dealing him at the time predicted, the Kings have done nothing during those years Carter was still on the team.

Read the posts in every game thread RJ. Carter is one of the reasons the Kings are not scoring. So what if he isn't the ONLY one.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

So....Kovalchuk, Lewis, Brodzinski, Hagelin, Campbell on IR. And Scherbak and Vilardi just coming off IR.

And most non injured King players playing atrociously.

Speaking of Vilardi, anyone going to the 3 PM Ontario game?

 

[SFKingshomer]

The worst team in the league with the oldest roster and need to shed cap. Blake and Luc have their hands full...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Everyone see what happens when you trade a player a year too late, or in Carter's case two years too late. Carter was going to age like a fine wine, right? For every player like a Mats Sundin there are probably 20 legit NHL players who had very good careers who age like a bottle of milk left out on the counter for a week.

If 2017 was the best time to trade Carter, 2016 would've been even better. As we've seen though, everyone should've been traded in June 2014, after the miracle run to the Cup, because none of them have played better than that, outside of the career year by Kopitar last year. Since 2014 was such a miracle, Quick and Brown should've been gone at the 2012 draft. That was the height of their potential value, and all they've done since(other than the miracle) is sign huge contracts. Had they gone out early as the 8th seed, or missed the playoffs completely, those two might've actually been traded in June 2012.

Wait we did something right?

They did something.

 

[Sol]

The good thing about Carter is the real world dollars owed to him dramatically decrease starting next year:

19/20: $3 million
20/21: $2 million
21/22: $2 million

You may be able to find a penny pincher like Melnyk who is willing to bring him on for name recognition to sell some jerseys.

But K17 is right: you’re not going to get a significant asset for him at this point. He’s simply too old. If you can dump him for a 3rd or even a 2nd, take it and run. Same applies to Kovalchuk.

Toffoli and Muzzin can potentially fetch a good prospect/pick with the right trade partner.

I think you can get a first from Ottawa.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

If people aren't scoring, the offense and numbers go collectively down.






Tripe.

You and K17 will be pleasantly surprised about the return for Carter.

Look forward to you both eating your words on this one, people know what's up with Carter, if they want him they're not going to get him for a lowball prayer.

Then he’ll likely play out his contract as a King. “What’s up” with Carter is a rapidly depreciating player who still has some weapons, but not enough to justify a $5+ cap hit for three more years.

No contending team is going to give up a significant prospect for what will eventually be a 37 year old Carter. The only way that happens is if two contenders desperately in need of his skill set get into some kind of bidding war at the deadline. And the question then is who? Who needs a veteran like Carter? A lot of teams already have a player like him.

I will happily eat my words if we can get something good for him.

 

[KingsFan7824]

How are Toofli, Muzzin and Carter not worth a 1st rounder???

Can they get back essentially the same value as they gave up for Carter? As they sit last overall? If it's an A prospect too, that could be better value depending on how you view JMFJ. Doesn't time tend to decrease value? At least in a physical performance based industry that has a hard cap on employees?

We've seen Toffoli and Muzzin the last while here. Would you give up a 1st and a prospect for them? They're last, have very few expiring contracts, and damn near everyone is underperforming. Blake has zero leverage. I'm not saying it's not possible, but for people expecting three or four 1st round picks in the upcoming draft, you might want to slow down.

 

[KINGS17]

If 2017 was the best time to trade Carter, 2016 would've been even better. As we've seen though, everyone should've been traded in June 2014, after the miracle run to the Cup, because none of them have played better than that, outside of the career year by Kopitar last year. Since 2014 was such a miracle, Quick and Brown should've been gone at the 2012 draft. That was the height of their potential value, and all they've done since(other than the miracle) is sign huge contracts. Had they gone out early as the 8th seed, or missed the playoffs completely, those two might've actually been traded in June 2012.

I don't care about what would have been even better. By 2017 the writing was on the wall. Again, I am not looking for maximum return. I was hoping for Kings management to recognize that the run was over and start gathering assets in support of building around Doughty.

You post this junk all the time. The Kings were still a good team in 2014, and it was not a miracle. That team didn't have the same level of talent as San Jose or Chicago, but they had all the guts and guile necessary. In many ways 2014 was even more satisfying than 2012.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse here. A 31-year old Carter is worth much more than a 34-year old Carter, and just as people in favor of dealing him at the time predicted, the Kings have done nothing during those years Carter was still on the team.

Read the posts in every game thread RJ. Carter is one of the reasons the Kings are not scoring. So what if he isn't the ONLY one.

Hey, absolutely, carter is one of the problems, one of the biggest ones, no argument here.

My point is our LEADING scorer is 117th in the league, but you're never going to convince me or most rational people that a team would rather have Cody Eakin, Jason Zucker, Alex Kerfoot than Anze Kopitar.

Recognize the context. Player value doesn't occur only at its worst moment.

Then he’ll likely play out his contract as a King. “What’s up” with Carter is a rapidly depreciating player who still has some weapons, but not enough to justify a $5+ cap hit for three more years.

No contending team is going to give up a significant prospect for what will eventually be a 37 year old Carter. The only way that happens is if two contenders desperately in need of his skill set get into some kind of bidding war at the deadline. And the question then is who? Who needs a veteran like Carter? A lot of teams already have a player like him.

I will happily eat my words if we can get something good for him.

You're moving the goalposts. You suggested we'd be lucky to dump Carter for a 3rd.

Even if a team can't use his two-way abilities and skating at center, they can get a great scoring winger.

If you're making the same mistake and evaluating carter in this quarter-season vacuum, then yes, he's not worth a pick. If you're a team looking to pick some veteran scoring punch up at the deadline, a bounceback candidate that could take a lesser role, there aren't many top sixers that will come much cheaper than Carter. Imagine him flying up and down for some contender like Nashville.

 

[kings11]

Can they get back essentially the same value as they gave up for Carter? As they sit last overall? If it's an A prospect too, that could be better value depending on how you view JMFJ. Doesn't time tend to decrease value? At least in a physical performance based industry that has a hard cap on employees?

We've seen Toffoli and Muzzin the last while here. Would you give up a 1st and a prospect for them? They're last, have very few expiring contracts, and damn near everyone is underperforming. Blake has zero leverage. I'm not saying it's not possible, but for people expecting three or four 1st round picks in the upcoming draft, you might want to slow down.

Expecting a 1st for Carter, Muzzin and Toffoli are a minimum.
Don’t be fooled by people who comment and say at best we get a 2nd, those guys aren’t a salary dump! Look at PO bound teams and tell me they wouldn’t give up a 1st for any of those 3. Some here would have you believe that those guys are finished based on the crappy year this horrible team is having but that’s not the case.
Are we getting a Hanzal type return? Nope, but we can easily get a 1st from a TML, Avs, Buf, MTL and a few more. The cap hit on each is bargain level and the term isn’t really an issue for some of the above.
You could move Muzzin+Haglin to the Avs and get a 1st + or Martinez+Lewis to TML or what ever package you can dream of, so it’s possible. The issue is the FO thinking we could land a guy like Nylander or other top young players. We need to clear cap, get assets and move forward with our immovable players

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Totally random question but I didn't want to throw it in the "other sports" thread...was having a conversation with a buddy comparing players across sports. Would you say Anze Kopitar is the Tim Duncan of the NHL?

 

[KINGS17]

Totally random question but I didn't want to throw it in the "other sports" thread...was having a conversation with a buddy comparing players across sports. Would you say Anze Kopitar is the Tim Duncan of the NHL?

No, Tim Duncan was pretty consistent up until he hit 33 years of age, then he had a steady decline in production. Kopitar has been wildly inconsistent from season to season for the past several years, and before reaching 30 years of age.