Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

[tomd]

tomd - I hope your absence after the Muzzin trade was simply due to being upset about the direction that Blake decided upon and not a health issue. Seriously. I implied a Duck poster vanished after the 2014 series and it turns out it was due to a health issue.

Anyways, it seems as if you are back because they won a few games after getting the recharge that was not playing for like two weeks. That's great that they have the record that you quoted but they also have their overall record and the record of the last five years. I'm an underwriter and look to have at least three years of stable-to-positive trends when handing money to a business. Using the last three seasons and the current interim statement, I would not want to extend credit to the Kings and I'd be looking to reduce my credit risk with them if I had already extended credit.

If I decide to look at the 2018 Coyotes by starting at Game 56, I get a team with a 16-9-2 record. 103 point pace. Start the parade.

It was always a possibility that Muzzin would be traded and I said that many times. Now we just have to see what Blake will do next

Regarding Arizona, if they had Quick, Doughty, Kopitar, and Brown as their core I’d be looking at them a bit differently. But you actually proved my point. They were young and looked promising and on their way up. But the kids didn’t have staying power and now they are a bottom feeder again. Such is the nature and risk of rebuilding

 

[KINGS17]

No, now you’re being disingenuous. You have consistently advocated getting rid of any and all players over 25 years old in exchange for draft picks and prospects. In your world their are no veterans on the team. Dump Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Lewis for the best picks you can get. Dump these guys not to improve the team. Oh no. Your only goal is to get younger and younger. That’s fine but most fans don’t want that. Face it, you are miserable every time the team wins now and you will be for the next 5 years if you had your way

And for the record, I ceased to be a fan when Richards was acquired. He was a bad apple and I was embarrassed to have him be a part of the organization. I was proven correct. I also have no regrets

Nope, I have advocated moving older players as the opportunity arose to do so. Back when they could have moved Kopitar I said I would be fine with a 1A/1B center lineup with Carter and the player you would receive (along with multiple other assets) in a Kopitar deal.

After they screwed the pooch and signed Kopitar to his 8-year monstrosity, I said they should move Carter while he still had real value because the Kings were not going to go anywhere paying Kopitar a $10M cap hit.

Not more than 10 minutes ago I posted that I would like to keep one of Lewis or Clifford. They will also be keeping Brown.

Doughty isn't a leader. Prior to the Kopitar negotiation debacle, I advocated retooling around Doughty. I didn't want Kopitar traded for picks and prospects, I wanted a young NHL centerman on the rise plus other assets which could have helped immediately.

You would know all of this had you been around, and not merely showed up this season to rub everyone's nose in it and advocate prolonging mediocrity.

 

[Fishhead]

I would hang onto Kovy until a team gets desperate. I wouldn’t retain unless a bubble team offers a first or a team offers something equivalent to that back. Just maximize the return.

 

[LAKings88]

And for the record, I ceased to be a fan when Richards was acquired. He was a bad apple and I was embarrassed to have him be a part of the organization. I was proven correct. I also have no regrets

I know he had issues. I still think he was a big leader and culture guy. Didn’t he even fight Reaves? His story is tragic (from a what could have been perspective) and his decline is probably just as up there with Voynov as blows to that team(era)’s possible legacy.

 

[HeadInjury]

I could never stay mad at Mike Richards. After all, he did this:

 

[BigKing]

It was always a possibility that Muzzin would be traded and I said that many times. Now we just have to see what Blake will do next

Regarding Arizona, if they had Quick, Doughty, Kopitar, and Brown as their core I’d be looking at them a bit differently. But you actually proved my point. They were young and looked promising and on their way up. But the kids didn’t have staying power and now they are a bottom feeder again. Such is the nature and risk of rebuilding

Yes, but you didn't want them to trade Muzzin because then it wouldn't be a "retool". Now they've won three games without him and you are talking about adding so they can be 1st round playoff fodder next season. You said in the main board Muzzin thread that you aren't even a Kings fan and your idea of being the Dave Taylor era Kings supports that claim.

I did not prove your point but rather proved that selectively choosing the best portion of a trash team's 82 game season is not an accurate depiction of what they are or what to expect moving forward. Arizona's last 27 games hurt their lottery chances which could, in turn, hurt their rebuild. More to your point about having 11 and 8 on the roster is that bottoming out this season actually helps those two and the future of the franchise since they need a high-impact player from this draft to be in the NHL as quickly as possible. Playing their way into the DT Memorial Draft Range of 11-13 lowers the probability of this occurring.

I can understand why you want to just make the playoffs and hope for the best: that is all us Kings fans could ever hope for since just making the playoffs was special. Then you split when the rest of us enjoyed the pinnacle of hockey fandom. The last five years have been mostly brutal in comparison to the three years prior but I understand if you like it if you compare it to the majority of the Kings' history.

I don't want your catnip though: I want the good stuff again and I want it injected straight into my veins. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get that high again, including getting on my knees for who knows how many years of sucking.

 

[KINGS17]

No, now you’re being disingenuous. You have consistently advocated getting rid of any and all players over 25 years old in exchange for draft picks and prospects. In your world their are no veterans on the team. Dump Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Lewis for the best picks you can get. Dump these guys not to improve the team. Oh no. Your only goal is to get younger and younger. That’s fine but most fans don’t want that. Face it, you are miserable every time the team wins now and you will be for the next 5 years if you had your way

And for the record, I ceased to be a fan when Richards was acquired. He was a bad apple and I was embarrassed to have him be a part of the organization. I was proven correct. I also have no regrets

So, Richards was a bad apple? I wouldn't say so by his actions on the ice. He stuck up for his teammates at every turn, and was a proven winner.

The man was rumored to partake of cocaine. I don't know if this is true, or not. He definitely had, and maybe still has, an addiction to pain killers which likely started as using them to combat a hockey injury.

I'm not going to judge the guy, and hope he sought and received the help he needed.

 

[Maynard]

I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get that high again, including getting on my knees for who knows how many years of sucking.

I have a cousin who’s a meth addict and she lives by a similar mantra.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I could never stay mad at Mike Richards. After all, he did this:

wrong mike richards

 

[BigKing]

Bails on Mike Richards, stays through Joe Corvo.

Regardless, I thought it was a Lombardi thing and not a Mike Richards thing. That makes more sense since he chose to put out a bad team and did Lubo raw.

 

[BigKing]

I have a cousin who’s a meth addict and she lives by a similar mantra.

I'm just chasing the dragon, man.

 

[Johnny Utah]

For many years the Kings traded high pick for bad players. Finally, a little bit under Dave Taylor and under Dean Lombardi, the Kings kept their picks. Though, toward the end of Lombardi's term he made some deals that really hurt us.

Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Martin Jones, Colin Miller, Erik Cernak are all in the league still - and proving valuable players.

Mike Richards is not in the NHL. Lucic is barely in the NHL. Sekera is oft injured. Bishop is a #1 in Dallas, but for how much longer and Lehtonen almost stole the job last year. Hell, even Penner is years out of the NHL.

 

[tomd]

Nope, I have advocated moving older players as the opportunity arose to do so. Back when they could have moved Kopitar I said I would be fine with a 1A/1B center lineup with Carter and the player you would receive (along with multiple other assets) in a Kopitar deal.

After they screwed the pooch and signed Kopitar to his 8-year monstrosity, I said they should move Carter while he still had real value because the Kings were not going to go anywhere paying Kopitar a $10M cap hit.

Not more than 10 minutes ago I posted that I would like to keep one of Lewis or Clifford. They will also be keeping Brown.

Doughty isn't a leader. Prior to the Kopitar negotiation debacle, I advocated retooling around Doughty. I didn't want Kopitar traded for picks and prospects, I wanted a young NHL centerman on the rise plus other assets which could have helped immediately.

You would know all of this had you been around, and not merely showed up this season to rub everyone's nose in it and advocate prolonging mediocrity.

Actually, I just happen to think that rebuilding is the wrong choice when you have a core of Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, and Quick signed long term. I also think the Kings being bottom dwellers is bad for hockey in southern california. It looks like the ducks will be there too but I haven't been actively cheering for them to lose like you and others are doing on this board. Unfortunately, the board has been taken over by the tank crew so I understand the push back. It is Hockey's FUTURE after all.

But let me be very clear...I have NOT been gloating or rubbing anyone's nose in anything. I've been respectful and thoughtful. We have a major difference of opinion and that is fine. The reality will be somewhere between us. I understand your POV despite how unrealistic it is. At least you could understand mine which is much closer to what the reality will be despite how much you don't want it to be.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

For many years the Kings traded high pick for bad players. Finally, a little bit under Dave Taylor and under Dean Lombardi, the Kings kept their picks. Though, toward the end of Lombardi's term he made some deals that really hurt us.

Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Martin Jones, Colin Miller, Erik Cernak are all in the league still - and proving valuable players.

Mike Richards is not in the NHL. Lucic is barely in the NHL. Sekera is oft injured. Bishop is a #1 in Dallas, but for how much longer and Lehtonen almost stole the job last year. Hell, even Penner is years out of the NHL.

You realize that 31 other fan bases would KILL to be able to make that trade and the results were right?

I get what you are saying about trading picks, that didn't start with McMaster, that started when the Kings were created.....even Taylor traded picks etc, Lombardi was the only one who kept his picks, until he had a solid chance at a winning team, and he moved on it...

 

[BigKing]

For many years the Kings traded high pick for bad players. Finally, a little bit under Dave Taylor and under Dean Lombardi, the Kings kept their picks. Though, toward the end of Lombardi's term he made some deals that really hurt us.

Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Martin Jones, Colin Miller, Erik Cernak are all in the league still - and proving valuable players.

Mike Richards is not in the NHL. Lucic is barely in the NHL. Sekera is oft injured. Bishop is a #1 in Dallas, but for how much longer and Lehtonen almost stole the job last year. Hell, even Penner is years out of the NHL.

Kings won two Cups with Richards and went to a WCF on top of that. Four seasons of Richards with 3-out-of-4 being in the Top 4 of best Kings seasons ever.

He was instrumental and believing that not making that trade would have still led to a Cup is impossible to prove and most likely false anyways.

Penner scored the goal that sent them to the WCFs and was a 2nd line wing on one of the most dominant playoff teams in NHL history.

Your list does not include the Carter trade which also led to two Cups. No Richards trade and we might not be looking at the Carter trade.

Yeah, Lombardi sucked the second he didn't use the compliance buyout on Richards and then tried to keep the party rolling. I know you and others like to criticize the Richards deal but--remember I like you when I say this--it is such a stupid hill to die on. I may have also liked Simmonds more than anyone here and hated to see him go.

 

[KINGS17]

Kings won two Cups with Richards and went to a WCF on top of that. Four seasons of Richards with 3-out-of-4 being in the Top 4 of best Kings seasons ever.

He was instrumental and believing that not making that trade would have still led to a Cup is impossible to prove and most likely false anyways.

Penner scored the goal that sent them to the WCFs and was a 2nd line wing on one of the most dominant playoff teams in NHL history.

Your list does not include the Carter trade which also led to two Cups. No Richards trade and we might not be looking at the Carter trade.

Yeah, Lombardi sucked the second he didn't use the compliance buyout on Richards and then tried to keep the party rolling. I know you and others like to criticize the Richards deal but--remember I like you when I say this--it is such a stupid hill to die on. I may have also liked Simmonds more than anyone here and hated to see him go.

The only thing I would criticize Lombardi over in regards to Richards would be his failure to buy him out after the 2013-14 season.

It would have been a much better story if Dean had done this, and then the organization helped Richards to get the help he needed.

I like Wayne Simmonds as a player, but he didn't have the presence of Mike Richards. What does one suppose Mike Richards does if Malkin would have cheap shot him the way he hit Simmonds. Malkin probably never does it because he knows what would happen with Mike Richards.

I don't think the Kings win the cup in 2012, or advance to the Western Conference Final in 2013 without Mike Richards.

 

[KINGS17]

Actually, I just happen to think that rebuilding is the wrong choice when you have a core of Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, and Quick signed long term. I also think the Kings being bottom dwellers is bad for hockey in southern california. It looks like the ducks will be there too but I haven't been actively cheering for them to lose like you and others are doing on this board. Unfortunately, the board has been taken over by the tank crew so I understand the push back. It is Hockey's FUTURE after all.

But let me be very clear...I have NOT been gloating or rubbing anyone's nose in anything. I've been respectful and thoughtful. We have a major difference of opinion and that is fine. The reality will be somewhere between us. I understand your POV despite how unrealistic it is. At least you could understand mine which is much closer to what the reality will be despite how much you don't want it to be.

I understand your position perfectly, you are okay with mediocrity.

Using the name of the website is weak sauce for your argument.

 

[tomd]

I understand your position perfectly, you are okay with mediocrity.

Using the name of the website is weak sauce for your argument.

No, actually the Kings have chosen mediocrity if that is how it turns out. They have a core of Doughty, Kopitar, and Brown who are essentially unmoveable. They have Quick who could be moved but it will be tough and the return will be less than optimum. That isn't my fault. That was their choice and no amount of moaning about what YOU would have done 2-3 years ago will change that. Assuming Kopitar and Doughty rebound next year (very likely) they will be in the black hole even if they decide to rebuild. And that will frustrate you no end. You are pretty much f***ed either way. Sorry about that.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Did anyone ever think from 2014-2019 the kings would have won 1 playoff game and missed the playoffs 3x?

How the mighty have fallen.

I looked thru Capfriendly a few times last summer and said to myself - the Kings won’t compete with these older and overpaid players - the day will come when it will be Kopitar, Brown and a bunch of young forwards on entry level deals and Doughty and a bunch of young D. Finally Blake woke up and realized this needed to happen sooner than later.

Kings have to constantly bringing in young top players, getting the most of them out during the entry level deals and then locking them up from 22-26 and hopefully a smaller deal after that or trade them or let them go.

The cycle continues but having the best players at forward being over 27 years old making 3 million all the way up to 10 million (which we had to start the year) and 4 D making over 4, the youngest besides Doughty was Muzzin, won’t cut it.

 

[KINGS17]

No, actually the Kings have chosen mediocrity if that is how it turns out. They have a core of Doughty, Kopitar, and Brown who are essentially unmoveable. They have Quick who could be moved but it will be tough and the return will be less than optimum. That isn't my fault. That was their choice and no amount of moaning about what YOU would have done 2-3 years ago will change that. Assuming Kopitar and Doughty rebound next year (very likely) they will be in the black hole even if they decide to rebuild. And that will frustrate you no end. You are pretty much f***ed either way. Sorry about that.

That's where you're wrong. I'll still be here long after you're gone, which I suspect will happen when/if the Kings contend again.

Doughty will be Doughty, Kopitar is going to fade sooner more than later. Brown can lead and teach the kids how to be professionals, but he isn't going to make a big difference in the standings.

I know you like seeing the Kings wallow in mediocrity, and hope they don't get the opportunity to improve as they did when Lombardi was here and they drafted #4, #2, and #5 overall, along with stockpiling other picks in the 1st and 2nd round. It's tough when you miss out on the best years in the history of a franchise. I understand how you might be feeling, but I haven't experienced it.

 

[tomd]

That's where you're wrong. I'll still be here long after you're gone, which I suspect will happen when/if the Kings contend again.

Doughty will be Doughty, Kopitar is going to fade sooner more than later. Brown can lead and teach the kids how to be professionals, but he isn't going to make a big difference in the standings.

I know you like seeing the Kings wallow in mediocrity, and hope they don't get the opportunity to improve as they did when Lombardi was here and they drafted #4, #2, and #5 overall, along with stockpiling other picks in the 1st and 2nd round. It's tough when you miss out on the best years in the history of a franchise. I understand how you might be feeling, but I haven't experienced it.

Don’t worry about me. I’m a hockey fan first and thoroughly enjoyed the ducks win in 07 despite being a kings supporter at the time. My life is about MUCH more than just hockey in general or kings hockey in particular. I’ll do just fine thanks. But I’ll be thinking about you every time the kings win a game or (heaven forbid) sign or trade for a player over 25. I think we’re done now.

 

[KINGS17]

Don’t worry about me. I’m a hockey fan first and thoroughly enjoyed the ducks win in 07 despite being a kings supporter at the time. My life is about MUCH more than just hockey in general or kings hockey in particular. I’ll do just fine thanks. But I’ll be thinking about you every time the kings win a game or (heaven forbid) sign or trade for a player over 25. I think we’re done now.

Nah, we were done a long time ago. You just kept coming back for more. I don't worry about you tomd.

 

[fsanford]

Lewis needs to audition for a trade opportunity a good 3rd line guy to have for a playoff run.

Just another link regarding interest in Kovalchuk at the trade deadline. This one is specific to the Islanders. C'mon Uncle Lou let's do this. Kings are going to have to retain up to 50% of the cap hit to make a deal with any team, but it's still worth doing.

Glad to hear Kovalchuk really is interested in winning.

New York Islanders Linked to Ilya Kovalchuk at Trade Deadline

If you eat half of his salary, that has to be worth a #1? At a little over 3 million of a 2nd line forward?

 

[tomd]

Nah, we were done a long time ago. You just kept coming back for more. I don't worry about you tomd.

At least I left the team instead of cheering against them. Classy move rooting for your team to lose every night. Cheering for a loss against Boston tomorrow I’m sure. Got to keep that fading tank alive!!

 

[BigKing]

At least I left the team instead of cheering against them. Classy move rooting for your team to lose every night. Cheering for a loss against Boston tomorrow I’m sure. Got to keep that fading tank alive!!

I don't think any of us actively root against them but rather understand that it is for the best. I want them to tank but I am wired to want them to win so I still get excited when they have a scoring chance and sag a bit when they don't score. Same for when they get scored on.

I understand that this pain right now is worth it in the long run, or at least is probably better. I sure as shit didn't go into the season hoping they would finish DFL but I adjusted my expectations accordingly. My desire is that they go undefeated the rest of the way and win another Cup. If they miraculously made the playoffs, I'd cheer for them to win. Hell, I don't "cheer" for them to lose but am completely okay with a loss as I feel the reality of the situation right now is that they should be positioning themselves for the highest draft pick odds possible.

The 2008 season was horrible. To the point--and beyond--of annoyance, I will once again say I had seats to the dark ages and went to basically every game. I got Drew Doughty out of that 2008 season so it was completely worth it, even though it would have been more fun in the moment to win a couple more home games and then get to draft Luke Schenn.