Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

[WHOneedsSOX]

It would all depend on how much of Kopitar's cap hit Blake is willing to retain. I don't think there is a single team in the NHL who would deal for Kopitar's contract in its current form.

100% agree. If he were to be put on the trade block I don't think more than 5 teams inquire and all 5 of those will be looking for salary retention. What does he have, 6 years left at $10 million a season? If he continues to decline then he could be one of the worst contracts in the league in a couple years.

One could hope it's as "simple" as him spending all summer by Pearson's pool drinking beers (not really simple from a mental perspective, but explainable at least), but I'm not so sure. We'll never know but whatever the reason, dude needs to take a LONG hard look in the mirror.

Didn't somewhere around 5-7 Kings players get married this summer? Too much partying all summer.

 

[crassbonanza]

Short answer: Prior to him signing his last contract, most likely after the 2014-15 season. He had a terrible season by his standards, but it still would have been easy to convince other GMs he would bounce back.

I was advocating a deal where the Kings traded for a younger up and coming center and whatever else Dean could pry out the the other team. I would have then built around Doughty and tried to get younger and better up front over the last couple of seasons. I believed at the time, given some of the other teams coming on in the Western Conference, like Nashville, Winnipeg, and Calgary, the Kings wouldn't be strong cup contenders for a while.

So, you would have traded the number 1 center from a team that was a season removed from going 10-1 in playoff rounds over the course of 3 seasons? Come on, that is just ridiculous. Trading a 26 year old center that led your team to the first ever Stanley Cup in franchise history and then was able to help them win another and is coming off of a down year where he led the team in scoring again is just insane. That would have been worse than the Jumbo Joe trade. Also, none of those 3 teams were really looking like up and comers at that point, I suppose Nashville, but they got smoked by the Hawks in the first round. It just seems like such hindsight revisionism.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I think the problem is 8+ year contracts in sports. None of them work out, none. Doughty's won't. Kopitar's already isn't. But it's the way it is, I get it. In order to sign the star, you have to have term on top of the dollars. Thing I dislike most about professional sports. Would love to have a 4-5 year max on contracts. There would be way more player movement and teams can change it around fairly quickly. Money is still there, just less term.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think the problem is 8+ year contracts in sports. None of them work out, none. Doughty's won't. Kopitar's already isn't. But it's the way it is, I get it. In order to sign the star, you have to have term on top of the dollars. Thing I dislike most about professional sports. Would love to have a 4-5 year max on contracts. There would be way more player movement and teams can change it around fairly quickly. Money is still there, just less term.

When the AVERAGE career is what, 4-5 years long, you won't get that.

 

[KINGS17]

So, you would have traded the number 1 center from a team that was a season removed from going 10-1 in playoff rounds over the course of 3 seasons? Come on, that is just ridiculous. Trading a 26 year old center that led your team to the first ever Stanley Cup in franchise history and then was able to help them win another and is coming off of a down year where he led the team in scoring again is just insane. That would have been worse than the Jumbo Joe trade. Also, none of those 3 teams were really looking like up and comers at that point, I suppose Nashville, but they got smoked by the Hawks in the first round. It just seems like such hindsight revisionism.

Kopitar was soon to be 28 that off season. Also, if you look at the team's performance and the trend they were on (which has since been confirmed) it was the right time to do it.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time it was happening?

 

[KopitarFAN]

Kopitar was soon to be 28 that off season. Also, if you look at the team's performance and the trend they were on (which has since been confirmed) it was the right time to do it.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time it was happening?

You're right, you said it the whole year we were discussing what the terms of the deal might be.

 

[crassbonanza]

Kopitar was soon to be 28 that off season. Also, if you look at the team's performance and the trend they were on (which has since been confirmed) it was the right time to do it.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time it was happening?

The team's performance? I don't think it is fair to judge a team coming off of a Stanley Cup Championship that out of nowhere lost two crucial parts and ended up missing the playoffs with 95 points. That is not a trend I would be betting on. I didn't realize you said it at the time, but I still think it would be crazy to do. Like I said earlier, it would be as dumb as trading Jumbo Joe was. You don't trade away someone that talented, who has proven his ability to perform in the playoffs, because you likely aren't ending up with anything better. The team would revert to slotting in "cap space" into the number 1 center spot.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Kopitar was soon to be 28 that off season. Also, if you look at the team's performance and the trend they were on (which has since been confirmed) it was the right time to do it.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time it was happening?

Really?

↑

I have full faith in Dean. Whichever way he decides to go (which isn't even worth debating because we all know he's going to re-sign Kopitar) I'm fine.​

I tend to agree. It's a question of how much and for how long. Only problem I see is that if Kopitar has the kind of season he had last year, or only somewhat better, and his agent insists on stupid money, then Dean will be forced to trade him.
KINGS17, Sep 28, 2015Report

 

[YP44]

The team's performance? I don't think it is fair to judge a team coming off of a Stanley Cup Championship that out of nowhere lost two crucial parts and ended up missing the playoffs with 95 points. That is not a trend I would be betting on. I didn't realize you said it at the time, but I still think it would be crazy to do. Like I said earlier, it would be as dumb as trading Jumbo Joe was. You don't trade away someone that talented, who has proven his ability to perform in the playoffs, because you likely aren't ending up with anything better. The team would revert to slotting in "cap space" into the number 1 center spot.

The bold I think is forgotten alot. LA was extremely unlucky to miss the playoffs in 2015. Hell even Sekera not getting injured may have gotten them in. Every team did not want LA to get it in because of the thought LA could do damage. Voynov screwed LA, but what is the other piece you are talking about? Richards crap happened in the offseason of 2015

 

[crassbonanza]

The bold I think is forgotten alot. LA was extremely unlucky to miss the playoffs in 2015. Hell even Sekera not getting injured may have gotten them in. Every team did not want LA to get it in because of the thought LA could do damage. Voynov screwed LA, but what is the other piece you are talking about? Richards crap happened in the offseason of 2015

I was including Richards precipitous fall in play as a part of the "out of nowhere", I believe he was waived in 2014-15.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Kopitar was soon to be 28 that off season. Also, if you look at the team's performance and the trend they were on (which has since been confirmed) it was the right time to do it.

How is it hindsight when I said it at the time it was happening?

I will give you this, you did not want to give him an 8 year deal, you wanted to wait and see etc...but you never advocated trading him out right, that's just revisionist history now

 

[KINGS17]

You can go back now and find all the posts in the summer of 2015 and during the 2015-16 season, where I did advocate trading Kopitar. Nice cherry picking though.

I did have full faith in Dean at the time, and I could see the Kopitar signing was a fait accompli by that time. I should have trusted my original analysis.

 

[KINGS17]

You're right, you said it the whole year we were discussing what the terms of the deal might be.

The basic thrust of my position was that if Kopitar was going to insist on 8 years and a large cap hit, he should be moved. Give him one of those two things, not both. Thanks for remembering.

 

[KINGS17]

Really?

↑

I have full faith in Dean. Whichever way he decides to go (which isn't even worth debating because we all know he's going to re-sign Kopitar) I'm fine.​

I tend to agree. It's a question of how much and for how long. Only problem I see is that if Kopitar has the kind of season he had last year, or only somewhat better, and his agent insists on stupid money, then Dean will be forced to trade him.
KINGS17, Sep 28, 2015Report

BTW, this was the actual exchange, so you might try to get it correct next time.

I have full faith in Dean. Whichever way he decides to go (which isn't even worth debating because we all know he's going to re-sign Kopitar) I'm fine.

My reply:

I tend to agree. It's a question of how much and for how long. Only problem I see is that if Kopitar has the kind of season he had last year, or only somewhat better, and his agent insists on stupid money, then Dean will be forced to trade him.

 

[YP44]

I was including Richards precipitous fall in play as a part of the "out of nowhere", I believe he was waived in 2014-15.

Gotcha, yes he was waived and played some games in the AHL that season

 

[crassbonanza]

Really?

↑

I have full faith in Dean. Whichever way he decides to go (which isn't even worth debating because we all know he's going to re-sign Kopitar) I'm fine.​

I tend to agree. It's a question of how much and for how long. Only problem I see is that if Kopitar has the kind of season he had last year, or only somewhat better, and his agent insists on stupid money, then Dean will be forced to trade him.
KINGS17, Sep 28, 2015Report

I enjoyed reading that, because it is clear how many of us were predicting that the Kings would be in this exact predicament 3-5 years down the road and we pretty much all accepted it. The cup window was wide open and there was no way you were going to find another number 1 center, re-signing him was the proper move. Even though it did not end up working out taking a few more chances on the cup winning core was worth it, who knows when you would ever have a group even half as good again. Not that there are not other moves I disagreed with, just not this one.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I enjoyed reading that, because it is clear how many of us were predicting that the Kings would be in this exact predicament 3-5 years down the road and we pretty much all accepted it. The cup window was wide open and there was no way you were going to find another number 1 center, re-signing him was the proper move. Even though it did not end up working out taking a few more chances on the cup winning core was worth it, who knows when you would ever have a group even half as good again. Not that there are not other moves I disagreed with, just not this one.

I can guarantee you that almost every single GM in the league now, that has been in the league, and that will be in the league, would have signed Kopitar in 2015 to the kind of deal he got,

Anyone advocating any differently clearly does not get what professional sports are about.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You can go back now and find all the posts in the summer of 2015 and during the 2015-16 season, where I did advocate trading Kopitar. Nice cherry picking though.

I did have full faith in Dean at the time, and I could see the Kopitar signing was a fait accompli by that time. I should have trusted my original analysis.

The basic thrust of my position was that if Kopitar was going to insist on 8 years and a large cap hit, he should be moved. Give him one of those two things, not both. Thanks for remembering.

I can vouch for your thinking because we spent the better part of 2 years throwing shit over each other's fences about it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can guarantee you that almost every single GM in the league now, that has been in the league, and that will be in the league, would have signed Kopitar in 2015 to the kind of deal he got,

Anyone advocating any differently clearly does not get what professional sports are about.

Especially when said deals are already becoming the norm.

As of next season there will be 15 players earning more than 9 million AAV, half of them are more than Kopitar.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Blake trading Kopitar before next season would be a near impossible deal to orchestrate for multiple reasons, all enumerated here in this thread.

As much as I’d love to rip-off some other team and shed Kopitars $10m anchor of a deal, I think it’s better to think about how to maximize his remaining value on the ice.

The only consensus solution to this recurring question is improving his quality of linemates. My guess this is the thinking when you hear rumors about the Kings going after Panarin, Skinner and Pacioretty. Those first two guys are still set to be UFAs for now, and with the salary cap room growing in the offseason, wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen.

My worry is the new huge salary those guys command and the risk it doesn’t move the needle enough to even make the playoffs.

The best answer for how to get Kopitar going is something I have no hope of the Kings doing in the next two years. Which is to cut his minutes, put him with young, energetic linemates and start matching his line with the other teams depth players when possible.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Wasn’t Gretzky traded when he was 28?

It’s clear now a Kopitar trade four years ago could have been a massive boon for the Kings. But that would have required some progressive GMing we just don’t see in the NHL today (unfortunately).

 

[KINGS17]

Blake trading Kopitar before next season would be a near impossible deal to orchestrate for multiple reasons, all enumerated here in this thread.

As much as I’d love to rip-off some other team and shed Kopitars $10m anchor of a deal, I think it’s better to think about how to maximize his remaining value on the ice.

The only consensus solution to this recurring question is improving his quality of linemates. My guess this is the thinking when you hear rumors about the Kings going after Panarin, Skinner and Pacioretty. Those first two guys are still set to be UFAs for now, and with the salary cap room growing in the offseason, wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen.

My worry is the new huge salary those guys command and the risk it doesn’t move the needle enough to even make the playoffs.

The best answer for how to get Kopitar going is something I have no hope of the Kings doing in the next two years. Which is to cut his minutes, put him with young, energetic linemates and start matching his line with the other teams depth players when possible.

Unfortunately, improving the quality of Kopitar's linemates is the recurring answer to the question.

This has not proven to work in the past when he started a season with Gaborik and Lucic on his line. His best year ever in terms of point production came when Kopitar was centering Brown and Iafallo.

 

[Piston]

It seems to me the main problem with Kopitar is the number of minutes he plays. Reduce his time on ice to 17 minutes a game, and he could still be highly effective.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Who wants to read a super condescending article telling us why tanking isn't a thing (no shit, we know they aren't losing on purpose), and that Jack Hughes isn't a quick fix (again, no shit)?

Why #LoseForHughes Is Not a Real Thing for the LA Kings

 

[crassbonanza]

Wasn’t Gretzky traded when he was 28?

It’s clear now a Kopitar trade four years ago could have been a massive boon for the Kings. But that would have required some progressive GMing we just don’t see in the NHL today (unfortunately).

What would that boon have been? What would they have done with the extra 10 million in cap space? Who would they have traded him for? Lastly, who would be our number 1 center? Carter?