Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

[Herby]

From Friedman’s 31 Thoughts:

8. I think the teams with the best chances at signing Panarin long-term are Florida, Los Angeles, the Islanders and the Rangers. The only one that makes sense to take a shot at him for rental purposes is the Islanders. Boston hovers as a rental option, too. If the Islanders don’t get their top choices, GM Lou Lamoriello could consider old acquaintance Ilya Kovalchuk. Remember, the winger has control over his destination.

24. Carl Hagelin’s only got eight points in 38 games, but a lower price tag may tempt someone for a competitive guy with a good playoff history. Buffalo looked at it.

I think Buffalo is beyond the point of acquiring a rental, or they should be. I actually wonder if Botterill is thinking of unloading Skinner and maybe considering bringing him back in the summer.

Their next 7 are

at Florida
at Tampa
vs. Washington
at Toronto
at Philly
vs. Pittsburgh
at Toronto

They will likely be well out of it after this stretch.

 

[Herby]

Or, you trade a generational D and you get back,

Brett Connolly, Ryan Strome, and Michael Dal Colle,

Point being, you don't trade known generational talent, for kicks at the can unless it's a Karlsson situation where you have no choice, you have to get something that is proven, if you are trading Doughty.

I like Doughty and he is a great player but he is not a generational defenseman, that word gets thrown around to often. I don't think anyone in the league has done enough to be considered a generational defenseman, the last one was Lidstrom.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Or, you trade a generational D and you get back,

Brett Connolly, Ryan Strome, and Michael Dal Colle,

Point being, you don't trade known generational talent, for kicks at the can unless it's a Karlsson situation where you have no choice, you have to get something that is proven, if you are trading Doughty.

There is risk inherent in any rebuild. But if you keep the same old players the roster will remain old, slow and going nowhere. No other player on our roster could return such a haul to jumpstart our rebuild. I would be willing to take that chance if such a trade was available because the potential upside is enormous.

Simply having Doughty around is not going to make us a contender again. At this pace, it will take us 3-4 years to acquire the amount of talent we would get from the deal I proposed.

 

[KINGS17]

I like Doughty and he is a great player but he is not a generational defenseman, that word gets thrown around to often. I don't think anyone in the league has done enough to be considered a generational defenseman, the last one was Lidstrom.

I once was of the opinion Doughty would become a generational talent, but his offensive game is far too average and pedestrian for that to be the case. He might be the best in the NHL at this time, but the fact there are other players worthy of being in the conversation indicates Doughty is not a generational talent in the traditional sense of the word "generational".

It is going to be interesting to see if Doughty takes on more responsibility and ups his game, or if he is willing to be satisfied with just playing big minutes and calling that good enough.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I like Doughty and he is a great player but he is not a generational defenseman, that word gets thrown around to often. I don't think anyone in the league has done enough to be considered a generational defenseman, the last one was Lidstrom.

Possibly, let's say, top 3 Dman in the league since he entered? Regardless, the point still stands, you don't trade players of that caliber, for kicks at a can.

 

[KINGS17]

Prior to Doughty signing his last contract something reasonable for him from Toronto, if the Kings were looking for very good and quantity, would have been:

Dermott - age 22
Nylander - age 22
Liljegren / Sandin - ages 19 and 18
1st round pick

A package like that would have been a nice start to where the Kings need to go.

 

[Herby]

Possibly, let's say, top 3 Dman in the league since he entered? Regardless, the point still stands, you don't trade players of that caliber, for kicks at a can.

Excluding his rookie year as an 18-19 year old Doughty has been anywhere from 1-8 as far as defensive rankings go (IMO). I believe he is a very good, all-star caliber player but plenty of players better than Doughty have been traded before. The fact is the Kings have 1 playoff win in the past 5 seasons, so no matter how good Doughty has been it's not resulting in any success on the ice. I am not saying it's Doughty's fault but he isn't getting any younger and those "kicks of the can" could really result in something big. I mean the Kings probably could have gotten Marner in a package for Doughty before his NMC kicked in, I think it's pretty ridiculous to call Marner or a comparable player like that a kick of the can.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Excluding his rookie year as an 18-19 year old Doughty has been anywhere from 1-8 as far as defensive rankings go (IMO). I believe he is a very good, all-star caliber player but plenty of players better than Doughty have been traded before. The fact is the Kings have 1 playoff win in the past 5 seasons, so no matter how good Doughty has been it's not resulting in any success on the ice. I am not saying it's Doughty's fault but he isn't getting any younger and those "kicks of the can" could really result in something big. I mean the Kings probably could have gotten Marner in a package for Doughty before his NMC kicked in, I think it's pretty ridiculous to call Marner or a comparable player like that a kick of the can.

Marner has proven something in the NHL, draft picks have not....even K17 trade up above, Nylander and Dermott, have proven something, draft picks, have not.

 

[KINGS17]

Excluding his rookie year as an 18-19 year old Doughty has been anywhere from 1-8 as far as defensive rankings go (IMO). I believe he is a very good, all-star caliber player but plenty of players better than Doughty have been traded before. The fact is the Kings have 1 playoff win in the past 5 seasons, so no matter how good Doughty has been it's not resulting in any success on the ice. I am not saying it's Doughty's fault but he isn't getting any younger and those "kicks of the can" could really result in something big. I mean the Kings probably could have gotten Marner in a package for Doughty before his NMC kicked in, I think it's pretty ridiculous to call Marner or a comparable player like that a kick of the can.

I agree, they wouldn't have received as many assets, maybe Marner and a 1st round pick is all, but that would have been an acceptable deal to me.

 

[HeadInjury]

I'd prefer dipping into free agency to sign a suitable stay-at-home defenseman to pair with Doughty rather than trying to trade him. It is a waste of his talent to pair him with Forbort who should be on a third pairing.

 

[Herby]

Marner has proven something in the NHL, draft picks have not....even K17 trade up above, Nylander and Dermott, have proven something, draft picks, have not.

The return on Doughty at this time last year would have certainly included at the very least a young player like Marner or Nylander as part of the package. It's not as if they were trading Doughty for 4 draft picks. I doubt at this point the Kings would get Marner in any deal but any of the others would likely be in the deal, and nost of those things aren't risky unproven assets.

 

[KINGS17]

It's all water under the bridge now. Doughty has his 8-year $88M contract, and he is happy.

He said he will stay in LA come what may, and I think he means it.

 

[Herby]

I agree, they wouldn't have received as many assets, maybe Marner and a 1st round pick is all, but that would have been an acceptable deal to me.

Marner probably steps in the door and is the Kings best 2nd forward at age 20. And a year later is considered the franchise player at 21, would have been nice. Yes it's obviously tough to replace Doughty and what he does for the Kings, especially at ES but the numbers (age, length and AVV) were downsides to giving Drew that extension.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The return on Doughty at this time last year would have certainly included at the very least a young player like Marner or Nylander as part of the package. It's not as if they were trading Doughty for 4 draft picks. I doubt at this point the Kings would get Marner in any deal but any of the others would likely be in the deal, and nost of those things aren't risky unproven assets.

Agreed,

And all I was saying, was if you are trading Doughty, you can not, absolutely CAN NOT just trade him for draft picks, you HAVE to get something proven back, getting draft picks back for a player of his caliber, would have been a disaster.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Highly doubt the Kings would've gotten Marner for Doughty, let alone anything in addition to Marner. Doughty isn't generational, right? If he's not, you're not getting a guy that's close to a decade younger, and was putting up 60+ points as a 19 year old. Go down the list of non-generational talent with big, or soon to be big, contracts, and look what they get. Not that there are all that many examples.

I don't think it's fair to make up these great trade scenarios for the Kings, and then blame them for not making those trades. You're not getting the proven 20 year old for 28/29 year old Doughty. If anything proven is coming back, it's the 25/26/27 year old guy with a big contract. In a hard cap league, you're not getting possibly equal value, and a decade younger. That's too much. Too much in favor of the Kings to be real. Want to trade the 24/25 year old Doughty, when he has 4/5 years at $7m, for the next highly talented 20 year old? Now you're in the realm of possibility.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Look at what Erik Karlsson was dealt for. I don’t think Doughty was going to land a Marner to LA.

 

[KINGS17]

Highly doubt the Kings would've gotten Marner for Doughty, let alone anything in addition to Marner. Doughty isn't generational, right? If he's not, you're not getting a guy that's close to a decade younger, and was putting up 60+ points as a 19 year old. Go down the list of non-generational talent with big, or soon to be big, contracts, and look what they get. Not that there are all that many examples.

I don't think it's fair to make up these great trade scenarios for the Kings, and then blame them for not making those trades. You're not getting the proven 20 year old for 28/29 year old Doughty. If anything proven is coming back, it's the 25/26/27 year old guy with a big contract. In a hard cap league, you're not getting possibly equal value, and a decade younger. That's too much. Too much in favor of the Kings to be real. Want to trade the 24/25 year old Doughty, when he has 4/5 years at $7m, for the next highly talented 20 year old? Now you're in the realm of possibility.

I don't agree, especially when Doughty fit the needs of the Leafs to a tee. I don't know if Marner would have ever been on the table, but I think it was very reasonable to expect a great return. Doughty may not be a generational talent, but he is still among the top 3 defensemen in the NHL. Don't be the fact his talent is going to waste on the Kings fool you.

 

[KINGS17]

Look at what Erik Karlsson was dealt for. I don’t think Doughty was going to land a Marner to LA.

Karlsson had suffered a serious ankle injury. I think that affected his value.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Karlsson had suffered a serious ankle injury. I think that affected his value.

He helped carry the Sens to Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Pens the season prior, and even with his ailments produced 62 points on a bad Sens team. I’d say Doughty would have garnered a similar return and wouldn’t have been dealt for a 20-year-old who was one point shy of 70 points last season and scored 61 points as a rookie.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I also think Toronto was too high on Marner to give him for virtually anyone. If they don't have O'Reilly, Liljegren, and Sandin in the chamber, then maybe they're desperate for Doughty. But as is, I think a deal around Nylander would have been much more likely.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I also think Toronto was too high on Marner to give him for virtually anyone. If they don't have O'Reilly, Liljegren, and Sandin in the chamber, then maybe they're desperate for Doughty. But as is, I think a deal around Nylander would have been much more likely.

Reilly, but yea, I agree, a deal that would have been Nylander and Dermott, with a Grundstrom/Johnsson and a 1st would have been more likely.

The problem with using the Karlsson deal as a comparable, is that everyone KNEW Karlsson wasn't going to resign.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'd prefer dipping into free agency to sign a suitable stay-at-home defenseman to pair with Doughty rather than trying to trade him. It is a waste of his talent to pair him with Forbort who should be on a third pairing.

I'd rather have a more offensive guy with Drew than a defensive one. Have to have someone else out there that's a threat with the puck and can skate a bit or you get the double-teams we see now.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I think of all the players on the roster Doughty is probably the one guy really worth keeping. Anybody else, if you could get a trade partner and some value in return, you have to move.

Here is a list of skaters I put ahead of Drew today.

McDavid
Crosby
Ovechkin
Kucherov
Matthews
MacKinnon
Burns
EK65
Pat Kane
Stamkos
Gaudreau
Marchand
Panarin
Eichel

And that is no slight to Drew. The problem is the next guy, Kopitar is way down the list from here. Who knows if Kopitar is even a top 50 skater in the league today and moving forward. After Kopitar the Kings don’t have two skaters in the top 200 IMO.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I’m also willing to give Doughty a break considering this is his first truly “down” season in his entire career. He has been a top five two way defenseman in the league for almost ten years now. Maybe not generational like Lidstrom, but close to it. Certainly HoF bound.

Chelios remains Doughty’s closest historical comparable.

 

[Sol]

From Friedman’s 31 Thoughts:

8. I think the teams with the best chances at signing Panarin long-term are Florida, Los Angeles, the Islanders and the Rangers. The only one that makes sense to take a shot at him for rental purposes is the Islanders. Boston hovers as a rental option, too. If the Islanders don’t get their top choices, GM Lou Lamoriello could consider old acquaintance Ilya Kovalchuk. Remember, the winger has control over his destination.

24. Carl Hagelin’s only got eight points in 38 games, but a lower price tag may tempt someone for a competitive guy with a good playoff history. Buffalo looked at it.

Why do you bother reading that idiots column?