Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

[Ziggy Stardust]

More meat to the Panarin rumors, from Craig Custance.


Multiple sources echoed a report earlier this week from Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman that said the Los Angeles Kings make sense for Panarin, with one team executive predicting that’s where he ultimately ends up in free agency. “I think he’s going to L.A.,” he said when asked for a destination. The Islanders, Rangers and Panthers are also still considered the front-runners to land him after July 1, and it makes sense for the Islanders to pay a steep price now to land him out of those teams.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Also from the same article:
19. Jeff Carter, Kings – Carter has three more years on his deal that averages $5.27 million per season but the actual salary starts to take a dive next season, down to $3 million and then $2 million per season at the end. For teams that aren’t cap teams, that’s a good deal. There was some belief that Carter had loosened up the teams in which he’d be willing to join but a source close to him shot that down: “His preference continues to stay right where he is.”

20. Carl Hagelin, Kings – He’s not putting up a ton of points in Los Angeles, but to know Carl Hagelin is to appreciate him. He was Evgeni Malkin’s preferred linemate in Pittsburgh and immediately has endeared himself to teammates with the Kings. “Everyone loves playing with him,” said an NHL source. “He’s a guy who can play with anybody.”

 

[Reaper45]

Clearing out Carter's salary would be a blessing.

 

[Herby]

Panarin turns 28 in October, so a 7 year deal with the Kings would have him play through his 34 year old year with the Kings. I know we have been burned by guys like Richards, Lucic and Phaneuf but it's not out of the realm of possibility that Panarin plays close to his current level for almost that entire contract. If the Kings take 2-3 years to get back to contending he is still only in his early 30's. I actually don't hate it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No sense in trading for Panarin now, but if they can get him signed while dumping some dead weight along the way, I say go for it.

Have some f***ing talent for the likes of Kupari and Anderson-Dolan to play with (and Vilardi, if he ever does heal up).

 

[Reaper45]

Look we've been through this before. Free agents use L.A. as a bargaining chip. I still say Demitra is the only highly sought after free agent weve ever signed and even then he wasnt the highest profile guy that year(though I may be wrong). Tavares made more sense to me and look how that went!

 

[Herby]

Only way I could see Panarin going to the Kings is if Quick is going the other way in the deal (after they traded Bob for Panarin replacement). That could be one way Columbus is able to get something for those two and still contend this year.

 

[BigKing]

Panarin strikes me as a dude that will not have his foot on the gas one that guaranteed, long-term deal is in place.

Dude can play though.

 

[Herby]

Panarin strikes me as a dude that will not have his foot on the gas one that guaranteed, long-term deal is in place.

Dude can play though.

That is a risk of signing any UFA. I get why people have the concerns, the Kings have been hit pretty hard over the years with players coming here and falling off a cliff for various different reasons.

But man can he play, he would be the most offensively gifted player the Kings have had since probably Palffy.And he costs you no assets to get on UFA market.

 

[BigKing]

That is a risk of signing any UFA. I get why people have the concerns, the Kings have been hit pretty hard over the years with players coming here and falling off a cliff for various different reasons.

But man can he play, he would be the most offensively gifted player the Kings have had since probably Palffy.And he costs you no assets to get on UFA market.

Totally get it. I also understand why Blake will probably go after him hard since they want this to be a short retool or whatever.

 

[LAKings88]

Panarin would be a game changer.

I still think it’s a pipe dream and these kind of articles only give me false hope.

Would think Kovy would stay if you are trying to attract Panarin.

See, wheels are already spinning.

 

[dman3474]

I disagree with the concept of ditching the dump and chase completely, because it is a necessary component of zone entries. I think that concept is the perfect example of how analytics can lead people astray because the game is not played in a spreadsheet. If you look at the analytics, controlled zone entries produce better possession, and more scoring chances than the dump and chase. So, analytically every team should focus solely on controlled zone entries, right? However, there are a few problems with that analysis.

First, controlled zone entries typically happen when the other team is at a disadvantage already, either an odd man rush or a turnover leading to a rapid rush catching the defenders on their heels. This situation is already a positive scenario, so the controlled zone entry did not play a major role in the success.

Second, if teams decide to focus mainly on controlled zone entry, defenders can stand up at the blue line to force more turnovers. The dump and chase forces defensemen to hedge back in order to retrieve and move the puck before the forecheck arrives. The dump and chase in itself assists in creating controlled zone entries, eliminating or minimizing the amount of times that you dump and chase will make controlled zone entries even more difficult.

Third, controlled zone entries are much more dangerous, a failed controlled zone entry can become dangerous very fast, leading to odd man rushes and defensemen on their heels. A failed dump and chase still has the puck 200 feet from your own goal.

Lastly, and this one is not as quantifiable, but the dump and chase with a heavy forecheck really wears on the opposition. The constant pressure and contact laid on defensemen seems to lead to turnovers over time, they have to contstantly look over their shoulders and move the puck quickly.

I am all for attempting more controlled zone entries, but a lot of analytics bloggers are out of their minds in their obsession with completely eliminating the dump and chase in my opinion.

I agree there is no way to completely ditch the dump and chase, if it is used properly it can work.

I hate that half the time they need to change the puck is just dumped in and given away. they need to keep possession even if it comes back to the D zone.

The entry on the PP is garbage too, if they even get in the zone

 

[crassbonanza]

I agree there is no way to completely ditch the dump and chase, if it is used properly it can work.

I hate that half the time they need to change the puck is just dumped in and given away. they need to keep possession even if it comes back to the D zone.

The entry on the PP is garbage too, if they even get in the zone

I definitely agree with you, giving up possession to make a line change seems so pointless and aggravates me. As for the powerplay, it feels like the second unit does a much better job entering the zone when compared to the first unit. I wonder if the first unit simply doesn't have enough speed to back off the D on entry.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I was making the number up to make a point......

You have two players, pick one for me please,

Player A

20:00 ATOI, + 40, 40 G, 20 A

Player B

20:45 ATOI + 40, 10 G, 60 A

Who do you take?

MOST people are going to take the 40 G scorer......despite the fact that they are giving up 10 more goals that the players have produced,

Player A has produced, 60 GF for that team

Player B has produced 70 GF for that team, but everyone always picks player A....it's astounding to me.

In isolation, none of those numbers mean anything. You can score 40 goals by yourself if you're that good, and sprinkle in assists here and there as a playmaker, maybe a few 2nd assists too, while being a low scoring team overall, and still be a bad team in either case. If you have stats like that for 2 players, they'll likely be on the same team though.

If I must pick one? I'll take the guy with 4 times as many goals, yes. Unless 55 of those 60 assists and real, legit assists. Tape to tape passes that lead directly to goals. Want to make it a 40/40 guy vs. a 30/60 guy? I'll lean toward the 30/60 guy in that blind taste test.

I'm just saying it's another crazy stat from 2014 than the Kings were able to outscore the Hawks(the 2nd best GF team that year) in a full 7 game series with 0 goals from the forward that was on the ice more than any other forward on the team by 20 minutes. Player A, Player B, that doesn't make what the Kings managed to do normal. Kopitar had 0g and 5a in that Chicago series. King had 1g and 4a. Gaborik had 3g and 1a. Carter had 5g and 6a. Hossa ended up with 0g in that series too, and the Hawks ended up losing.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Hoping Panarin signs in LA is akin to hoping Briere or Drury would sign in LA in the summer of 2007.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I agree there is no way to completely ditch the dump and chase, if it is used properly it can work.

I hate that half the time they need to change the puck is just dumped in and given away. they need to keep possession even if it comes back to the D zone.

The entry on the PP is garbage too, if they even get in the zone

You need more talent for that. Actual possession, not just shooting the puck toward the net to keep the puck in the offensive zone, requires talent up and down the roster.

 

[Herby]

The Kings had a nice balance in that 2014 lineup. Kopitar really carried them in the 1st round. I believe he scored in every one of the wins vs. SJ, and in the Hawks series it was The 70's Line, Keith and Seabrook did a good job on the Kopitar line but the Hawks had no one to contain Carter, they absolutely destroyed Odouya the entire series.

 

[KINGS17]

That is a risk of signing any UFA. I get why people have the concerns, the Kings have been hit pretty hard over the years with players coming here and falling off a cliff for various different reasons.

But man can he play, he would be the most offensively gifted player the Kings have had since probably Palffy.And he costs you no assets to get on UFA market.

I understand the argument in favor of signing Panarin as a UFA, but it's only worthwhile if they pick up a star in the draft who is cost-controlled for 3 years and makes an immediate impact.

Columbus has some talent, and Panarin hasn't made them contenders. It's going to take more than Panarin and the current core players.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

The Vilardi setback looms larger to 'what could have been' to this season and still to the future. Was not expecting him to come in and score 50 points or anything...but it was entirely possible he could have made an impact and an actual difference maker in being a playoff team...when you consider less than 10 pts off wildcard and you had a forward putting up possible 35 points, wold have gone a long way closing that gap....BUT, there are problems and shortcomings with this team and even if the Kings had 10 more points and were sitting 8th in the Conf, there are problems and too many players on the wrong side of 30 years old to go on.

I can actually see a fast rebuild if they can acquire / sign Panarin and would then keep Martinez...need a defense that is not 50% comprised of Walker, Ladue, Clague, Forbort, Roy.

If the team can send out Carter and lose Phaneuf from playing and get Panarin; would go a long way to shaping things up to at least be an NHL team. I expect Grundstrom ad Kupari to play next year and contribute. Possible for JAD to make it as well, but fine if he needs to play in AHL. I think Grundstrom will surprise to the upside...kind of like Jonsson coming onto the Leafs from the Marlies and scoring 15 goals as of the moment.

This year is / was also about getting games and experience for Wagner, Walker, Luff, Amadio, Rempal, Brickley....and finding a good, legit 3rd line winger in Leipsic. He deserves a 2-3 yr deal. You know he will bust it every game and is great at what he does and can make NHL level plays too. Need more of that on the bottom 6. He can fill second line when needed and not suck. This whole thing about Wagner not having good hands is overblown...he has an NHL shot and release...loved the 2 goals in tight the other game...those were not tap ins and he beat the goalie both times...I think this whole "not being able to finish' is that he's expected to bury half of his breakaways, but that's not realistic...he does score on several of them...probably average % on breakaways. A few that he didn't score, were good saves and he made a good shot. The last 3 he scored were the wicked release from the slot and the 2 fighting in front of the goal - those are the ones that win games. You don;t always get breakaways. Can't wait to see Grundstrom up.

The biggest element will be getting the right coach! Could they hire Sheldon Keefe?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I disagree with the concept of ditching the dump and chase completely, because it is a necessary component of zone entries. I think that concept is the perfect example of how analytics can lead people astray because the game is not played in a spreadsheet. If you look at the analytics, controlled zone entries produce better possession, and more scoring chances than the dump and chase. So, analytically every team should focus solely on controlled zone entries, right? However, there are a few problems with that analysis.

First, controlled zone entries typically happen when the other team is at a disadvantage already, either an odd man rush or a turnover leading to a rapid rush catching the defenders on their heels. This situation is already a positive scenario, so the controlled zone entry did not play a major role in the success.

Second, if teams decide to focus mainly on controlled zone entry, defenders can stand up at the blue line to force more turnovers. The dump and chase forces defensemen to hedge back in order to retrieve and move the puck before the forecheck arrives. The dump and chase in itself assists in creating controlled zone entries, eliminating or minimizing the amount of times that you dump and chase will make controlled zone entries even more difficult.

Third, controlled zone entries are much more dangerous, a failed controlled zone entry can become dangerous very fast, leading to odd man rushes and defensemen on their heels. A failed dump and chase still has the puck 200 feet from your own goal.

Lastly, and this one is not as quantifiable, but the dump and chase with a heavy forecheck really wears on the opposition. The constant pressure and contact laid on defensemen seems to lead to turnovers over time, they have to contstantly look over their shoulders and move the puck quickly.

I am all for attempting more controlled zone entries, but a lot of analytics bloggers are out of their minds in their obsession with completely eliminating the dump and chase in my opinion.

I think last night was a great example of effective dump-and-chases and variance to keep defenders honest. It was simplicity at it's finest. Use speed/numbers to either back them off the blueline for a carry in, use a creative player like Kempe or Leipsic to carry it in regardless as he can cut through a forest, or dump it if they all cheat up.

Plus even closely 'losing' a dump and chase play forces the d-man to turn away from the play.

What i LIke most about guys like Kempe and Leipsic is they help to keep people honest by actually dangling and by the threat of making a move. I don't think Kopitar and Brown even bother anymore, none of our forwards had that element to make people guess.

You're a little off there. Gaborik had 5 goals, and Brown had 4. Kopitar had 7 assists.

Normally, you don't get to slide with your top C getting 0 goals(who also led the team in goals during the regular season). It's just another in the long line of amazing facts from the 2014 run. One more, Kopitar had 2 more shots on net than Lewis in those 12 games. In addition to the goals from Gaborik and Brown, Carter had 6, Toffoli/Doughty/Williams all had 4, Martinez/Muzzin had 3 each. They did it by having stupid production from all their depth for a month.

Sure, but remember that through 2 rounds, Kopitar was scoring at the Malkin Conn Smythe pace--it was only when the elite two-way lines met that that stopped for both Kopitar AND Toews.

I think you have to REALLY examine that series to appreciate how much respect Kopitar got from the Hawks. It's the reason the 70s line became a thing and ran amok--they literally stacked all their best defensive players (minus Krueger) vs. the Kopitar line. He spent the entire series glued to Toews, Hossa, Hjalmarsson. late in the series, they even added Keith to that, Keith, Toews, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, and rotating winger of Sharp/Bickel. Despite all that, he still got his points, and was +1 for the series, while keeping the also-dangerous Toews line nearly to a deadlock (couple more points than Kopitar but on the PP).

By the time he got to the Rangers, he had gone through Thornton, Getzlaf, and Toews and associates. Then he got stuck with McDonagh-Stralman-Stepan-Hagelin. And he was pretty well running them over by the shot counter, just couldn't get the puck to go in.

Also from the same article:
19. Jeff Carter, Kings – Carter has three more years on his deal that averages $5.27 million per season but the actual salary starts to take a dive next season, down to $3 million and then $2 million per season at the end. For teams that aren’t cap teams, that’s a good deal. There was some belief that Carter had loosened up the teams in which he’d be willing to join but a source close to him shot that down: “His preference continues to stay right where he is.”

20. Carl Hagelin, Kings – He’s not putting up a ton of points in Los Angeles, but to know Carl Hagelin is to appreciate him. He was Evgeni Malkin’s preferred linemate in Pittsburgh and immediately has endeared himself to teammates with the Kings. “Everyone loves playing with him,” said an NHL source. “He’s a guy who can play with anybody.”

I can see why. I think people would appreciate Hagelin more if we didn't have Trevor Lewis. Hagelin is actually better, imo.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Whatever the future holds...DO NOT want to see Iafallo / Kopitar / Brown next year as #1 line.
Kopitar slower now and regressed some...Iafallo is a 2nd or 3rd line LW...and a 34 yr old Brown
no ES goals in 17 games....and turns 35 next year. Time to make him 2nd line and possibly 3rd.
This is not a top NHL line - if not now, certainly not in 19-20.

Last Off-season the Kings believed in this team and added Kovalchuk. They surmised the offense
would be fine and the PP would be better, with Kovalchuk. 4 weeks into the season, shock and awe set in that the Kings were not going anywhere. Stevens fired. Pearson traded.

They figured line one was fine, be it Kovy-Kopitar-Brown or even Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown and
line 2 could be the 70s line and or 1 of Iafallo - Kovy, that didn't play on the second line.
Nothing worked. And once WD came on, Kovy was a 3rd liner. Offense #31. The 70's line was
horrible and no longer an NHL second line. Pearson 0 goals 1 assist in 17 games. What were the odds of that? Like 2000 to 1? So he's dealt.

This cannot happen again. Ever. They had better know now, they cannot go into 19-20 with
Iafall0-Kopitar-Brown as line 1. Will be a disaster. Must work on viable solution NOW to
have answers for an NHL level top 6. That list should not include Iafallo, Brown or Carter.
Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown:::: 1. Iafallo is a good NHL player that is not a #1 LW. He will probably never score 50 pts. 2. Kopitar will be 32 next season and probably the slowest #1 center in NHL.
This is not good. He's still capable to be #1 center, but plans must upgrade both wings for him to succeed to a 70 point #1C. 3. Brown no longer can be counted on to score ES goals and game regressing and turns 35 next year.

So that leaves: Kopitar, Kovalchuk, Iafallo (2 LW) and Toffoli (and Toffoli by a hair) as top 6 forwards. Kempe can be a top 6 forward and produce with talented linemates. So, this leaves
at least one spot in which they MUST get a #1 LW / RW to play on Kopitars line.

What's the solution? Blake's problem. Moving Carter, Hagelin, Quick, can create cap space needed
to sign Panarin or another top line forward. Not against trading the Toronto #1 plus an Iafallo / Toffoli for legit top winger with some term, at draft...or even at deadline if right player is there.

I think it will help management to see what Grundstrom can do and where he's at with
a callup soon and see how Brodzinski does in Ontario. Neither are really solutions to the
top 6 problem. It would also be good to see if Kupari can be here sometime in March
and see if he can play in the NHL now. If not, no problem if he will be AHL when 19-20 opens. But to see where he's at will give them an idea what he needs to work on in the Summer, as well as Rasmus being able to prepare. He may be ready and excel as top 6 19-20, but they need to have a real
solution as not penciling in the Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown line as the plan. It will fail.

If this is THEE PLAN for 19-20 first unit, this team is not a playoff team.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Brown
Forbert - Doughty

3 of those 5 (60%) are not top unit players now or ESPECIALLY to open 2019-20

Iafallo, Brown, Forbert.

 

[deeshamrock]

More meat to the Panarin rumors, from Craig Custance.


Multiple sources echoed a report earlier this week from Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman that said the Los Angeles Kings make sense for Panarin, with one team executive predicting that’s where he ultimately ends up in free agency. “I think he’s going to L.A.,” he said when asked for a destination. The Islanders, Rangers and Panthers are also still considered the front-runners to land him after July 1, and it makes sense for the Islanders to pay a steep price now to land him out of those teams.

Sportsnet said the Preds and Bruins were hot after Panarin but the asking price was too high. Panthers are very interested and possibly Huberdeau would be part of the package going the other way. And that would be a nice pickup for them, he's 25 , averaging almost a point per game and signed for 4 more years. Also that 10M that Panarin wants his price to start at, goes a lot further in Fla .

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

https://www.tsn.ca/jets-morrow-out-2-3-weeks-with-lbi-1.1258311

Maybe the Kings can offer up top-pairing, elite defensive defenseman Derek Forbort for Nik Ehlers.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sportsnet said the Preds and Bruins were hot after Panarin but the asking price was too high. Panthers are very interested and possibly Huberdeau would be part of the package going the other way. And that would be a nice pickup for them, he's 25 , averaging almost a point per game and signed for 4 more years. Also that 10M that Panarin wants his price to start at, goes a lot further in Fla .

The Panthers would be stupid to trade a young point per game forward who is locked up at a great number. If he was being offered, that trade would have happened.

 

[deaderhead28]