KHL Expansion part II

[loppa*]

if the chinese begin to built today, a 25.000 arena will be completed before 2013/14 season start.

Wait. You mean the chinese financing an arena in russia or in china? On the other hand, Belgrade has an arena with about 20,000. And it clearly is not a good choice.

 

[Ivan94]

Wait. You mean the chinese financing an arena in russia or in china? On the other hand, Belgrade has an arena with about 20,000. And it clearly is not a good choice.

to built an arena isn´t a problem for chinese investors with chinese workers at china

and belgrad has nearly the same potencial as medvescak with serbonucs. there actual league is like that in croatia 5 years ago. 4 amateur teams competing for the championship. but the distance to the austrian league teams is a problem. from amateur league to khl is a too big step.

 

[obskyr]

Look, in theory it is a fine place for a team, but with such a small arena (pitiful 6,000) it's simply not good...

That's one of the main reasons why I don't like the idea either.
But the point is that there's still a bunch of cities that won't have arenas with capacity bigger than their 6,500, and I don't see like all of them leaving too soon.

 

[loppa*]

to built an arena isn´t a problem for chinese investors with chinese workers at china

and belgrad has nearly the same potencial as medvescak with serbonucs. there actual league is like that in croatia 5 years ago. 4 amateur teams competing for the championship. but the distance to the austrian league teams is a problem. from amateur league to khl is a too big step.

I think that a big arena in and of itself is not enough for a KHL team.

That's one of the main reasons why I don't like the idea either.
But the point is that there's still a bunch of cities that won't have arenas with capacity bigger than their 6,500, and I don't see like all of them leaving too soon.

Well, they're all going to get new arenas sooner or later, right? Either that or fall off. For example, I am looking forward to the kazakhstan club Barys falling off. Poor arena, it just sucks. Similarly I am looking forward to vityaz getting kicked out or moving to sochi. And similar stuff for other teams. Meanwhile other teams are building and expanding their infrastructure... or joining with already good infrastructure - like Slovan. Good infrastructure is important...

 

[BalticWarrior]

I think that a big arena in and of itself is not enough for a KHL team.





Well, they're all going to get new arenas sooner or later, right? Either that or fall off. For example, I am looking forward to the kazakhstan club Barys falling off. Poor arena, it just sucks. Similarly I am looking forward to vityaz getting kicked out or moving to sochi. And similar stuff for other teams. Meanwhile other teams are building and expanding their infrastructure... or joining with already good infrastructure - like Slovan. Good infrastructure is important...

Barys will have a new arena of 15k? in summer of 2014.

 

[obskyr]

Well, they're all going to get new arenas sooner or later, right? Either that or fall off.

Or remain intact if the rules protecting smaller market teams will be applied. Kölner Haie won't fall from the sky the day you eliminate Severstal or Atlant.

 

[Salavat Yulaev]

Barys will have a new arena of 15k? in summer of 2014.

Last time I heard it was 12000. However, initially they said 10000. Maybe increased again?

 

[Salavat Yulaev]

For example, I am looking forward to the kazakhstan club Barys falling off.

Then you'll need a lot of patience and long life, which is doubtful considering the amounts of bile.

 

[BalticWarrior]

Last time I heard it was 12000. However, initially they said 10000. Maybe increased again?

Oh yeah,i wasnt sure,i was just pointing out that barys is building a new arena.

 

[QnebO]

I partly agree with you. From a sport perspective I think top European clubs would be the best for KHL, but from a market perspective I think China would be better.

And it's because I think like this: If 1% of the Chinese population would find ice hockey interesting, this is 13 million people. And if 1% of them lives in Beijing, that is 130 thousands. And if just 1% of them would support a Beijing team in the KHL(become fans) that would be 13 hundreds.

The last figure of just 1 300 fans might not sound like much, but that number is actually higher than many teams in Denmark, France, Norway and other "middle" high league teams has in Europe. Countries with national teams in the WC.

And let's say that less than 1% of China felt interest in the KHL, that would still be several millions of people. Could be more viewers than the whole population of Sweden or Finland.

So from my point of view a great market for the KHL.

But there would be no Chinese players.. and game for strong bad big men, does it fit their culture?

Well, why not.. but there still wont be Chinese players.

 

[loppa*]

Barys will have a new arena of 15k? in summer of 2014.

I am not aware of that. Last I knew, they had no plans for their crummy arena.

Even if it is so, it's really too bad. Personally I'd rather have seen a hockey team in the old capital, alma-ata/almaty. :/

 

[ozo]

I am not aware of that. Last I knew, they had no plans for their crummy arena.

Even if it is so, it's really too bad. Personally I'd rather have seen a hockey team in the old capital, alma-ata/almaty. :/

Is there some rational thought behind the idea that Barys would be better off in Alma-Ata than in Astana? Both simply are not hockey cities.

 

[loppa*]

Is there some rational thought behind the idea that Barys would be better off in Alma-Ata than in Astana? Both simply are not hockey cities.

One is in a bigger city... a city that has a subway/metro, hence more potential for profits. Also, Almta-Ata at least has some hockey history, whereas correct me if I am wrong - Astana had none?

 

[Latgale_fan]

One is in a bigger city... a city that has a subway/metro, hence more potential for profits. Also, Almta-Ata at least has some hockey history, whereas correct me if I am wrong - Astana had none?

Yeah but the President likes Astana....

 

[Vicente]

One is in a bigger city... a city that has a subway/metro, hence more potential for profits. Also, Almta-Ata at least has some hockey history, whereas correct me if I am wrong - Astana had none?

Wouldn't the only logical choice (hockey-wise) be Ust-Kamenogorsk or whatever the Kazakhs call it?

 

[robwangjing]

But there would be no Chinese players.. and game for strong bad big men, does it fit their culture?

Well, why not.. but there still wont be Chinese players.

I would have to say no, it wouldn't fit their culture at all. So from this perspective it's a bad idea.

But as I mentioned earlier the Chinese are very into American things. I guess it's hard to explain if you have not been here? They just like it because it's American, no matter if it's good or not(regarding products).

If an American AHL-like team would work in Beijing I can't guarantee, but I do somewhat think it actually could work.

And also true what you said, most likely no Chinese players at all on the team. Could perhaps have the very few best players. But they wouldn't be good enough to actually play there, but could. Like too bad players for WC play for lower teams among better players.

Perhaps the VHL?

 

[BalticWarrior]

I would have to say no, it wouldn't fit their culture at all. So from this perspective it's a bad idea.

But as I mentioned earlier the Chinese are very into American things. I guess it's hard to explain if you have not been here? They just like it because it's American, no matter if it's good or not(regarding products).

If an American AHL-like team would work in Beijing I can't guarantee, but I do somewhat think it actually could work.

And also true what you said, most likely no Chinese players at all on the team. Could perhaps have the very few best players. But they wouldn't be good enough to actually play there, but could. Like too bad players for WC play for lower teams among better players.
Perhaps the VHL?

Think about this if Ukraine can barely scrap a few 4th liners that are natives,then what would it look like with a chineese team? And mind you ukraine was a Elite hockey country not that long ago.
I dont think any chineese player could take a 13th spot in even the weakest VHL team.

Also i`m genuinley interested- why are chineese so obssesed with all-things American?

 

[Vicente]

Do you guys think an all-imports team from Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, could play in VHL? They have a great arena there.

 

[ult]

Do you guys think an all-imports team from Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, could play in VHL? They have a great arena there.

It's good, but it's not that good to justify the team in Turkmenia. Some flying in the clouds, spacestation-like arena will do... at least for 25000 seats.

 

[obskyr]

I think the biggest breakthrough in history of Central Asian hockey will occur when Soviet hockey "legend" Binokor Tashkent (it was actually revived a year ago or so) joins the Kazakhstani championship.

 

[ozo]

I think the biggest breakthrough in history of Central Asian hockey will occur when Soviet hockey "legend" Binokor Tashkent (it was actually revived a year ago or so) joins the Kazakhstani championship.

Not gonna happen anytime soon because Kazakh hockey league is too good for that to happen, but yeah, Binokor is doing good things in Uzbekistan.

 

[Vicente]

Not gonna happen anytime soon because Kazakh hockey league is too good for that to happen, but yeah, Binokor is doing good things in Uzbekistan.

Maybe Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kirigistan could have a three-country league for the begin then? And maybe also they could work together with MHL officials for youth work?

 

[robwangjing]

Think about this if Ukraine can barely scrap a few 4th liners that are natives,then what would it look like with a chineese team? And mind you ukraine was a Elite hockey country not that long ago.
I dont think any chineese player could take a 13th spot in even the weakest VHL team.

Also i`m genuinley interested- why are chineese so obssesed with all-things American?

Yes, of course there will be no Chinese player that is actually good enough for the level, but they could have some of their best players play on the team anyway. But the best option is to only use foreigners.

I am also interested in why Chinese are so genuinely interested in American things, and have asked many Chinese people this question. The best answers I have gotten is "I don't know" or "Foreign means better and is more exclusive". Almost like a status symbol.

And there have been teams like this before in China. I heard of a team that consisted only of people from Scandinavia(Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland). I think it was called Nordic Vikings or such. If this team was successful I don't know?

So, like I said before I think this would work best if the team was marketed as a form of American entertainment. Instead of watching American cinema, visiting an American bar or just visit the Zoo , they go watch American hockey instead.

But the most important question, would this be good for KHL and does people want a "freak-show" team like this in the league? haha

For my part I wouldn't care. I'm starving here and would watch ANY hockey. So I am not the right one to answer.

 

[ozo]

Maybe Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kirigistan could have a three-country league for the begin then? And maybe also they could work together with MHL officials for youth work?

You have to understand that hockey is played by couple (and I mean "couple") of hundred people of all ages in all three countries combined. Talking about forming of international leagues is just insane. And MHL officials? Who actually are they and how do you imagine them helping a hockey programme that doesn't even exist?

Those countries need investors and real enthusiasts to get the game going.

 

[TheNomad]

If Binokor Tashkent got big enough again, they could serve as a base for the Central Asian republics as having a whole league of those teams would be too much to ask.

For example from football, Dzhamaldin Khodzhaniyazov is a Turkmenistan born player who went to a Tashkent based sports academy, then moved on for further development in Russia, and is now on Zenit at 17-years-old.

Maybe something like this could be replicated in hockey.