KHL Expansion part II

[Jussi]

That's not a surprise that SM-liiga teams are crying and complaining behind the curtains. They are so butthurt and are trying to hurt Jokerit as much as possible. I'm so glad to leave that clown-show SM-liiga management and league behind next season.

Jokerit fans know that their team has no excuse to ridicule one and pretend Jokerit have been run anyway better.

 

[Finnpin]

Jokerit fans know that their team has no excuse to ridicule one and pretend Jokerit have been run anyway better.

But that's a totally different story. Are you happy at SM-liiga management for let's say the past 5 years?

 

[Jussi]

But that's a totally different story. Are you happy at SM-liiga management for let's say the past 5 years?

No, but I'm more displeased with Jokerit management for the last 11 years.

 

[Finnpin]

No, but I'm more displeased with Jokerit management for the last 11 years.

Well no more suffering for you then anymore...have you already picked your new favourite SM-liiga team? IFK?

 

[Jussi]

Well no more suffering for you then anymore...have you already picked your new favourite SM-liiga team? IFK?

Not picking new one. I'll concentrate on "mieshuoraus", my other love of over 22 years, Man United.

 

[Thesensation19*]

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=d7f54ae546

64 teams by next year or the year after. I am going to assume 3 years minimum lol. Anyway.

2 conferences of 32 teams

 

[vorky]

The story is more complicated and I am not so sure what will happen in future.

This Barcelona meeting was about euro club hockey future. The dispute was and still is between a few options

1) KHL as closed league (model of NHL)
2) domestic leagues + Champions League (soccer model in Europe)
3) basketball (you have Champions League /Turkish Airways European League/ which is rather closed and domestic leagues, which can be cross-bordered/VTB League or Adriatic League in basket/KHL)

One league of 64 clubs is nonsense. I can imagine 1st tier league with 32 clubs and 2nd tier league with 32 clubs.

Medvedev, boss of KHL, said that KHL will have 32 clubs as maximum. League has 28 clubs now, Jokerit Helsinki is going to be 29th club, one spot is for russian club, 2 spots for euro clubs from hockey countries.

At the same time "basketball model" has been impletented into hockey. KHL should join this new Euro League.

 

[Pominville Knows]

It would be heavy handed, but they could wink wink nod nod and keep any player choosing to do that out of the National setup.

They do use some KHL players now, but the KHL hasn't put huge pressure or threatening pressure on the SHL. There could be a big response to this in terms of what they think about the KHL trying to usurp hockey audiences in Sweden, there also could be none at all. But to suggest they will ultimately sit on their hands might not be the case.

The NHL and KHL to date might take their talent, but they haven't attempted to damage their bottom line in this kind of way.

Yeah good luck with that. They're cancelling the Euro Hockey Tour after the next season becouse no-one cares. Sometimes i wonder where the visionaries are. But i know the answer, and its not within any national federation in Europe. Leave it to the big guns, and that's the KHL. Either you accept it, or you keep swimming in that round old gold fish bowl you allready know all too well. I do understand that some people prefer it that way, but let them, the market is what it is and deep within many hockey fans there is a crave, and a jealousy towards the NHL and that they are stealing our best players since 40 years. People, lets get the balance back.

 

[Jussi]

Yeah good luck with that. They're cancelling the Euro Hockey Tour after the next season becouse no-one cares. Sometimes i wonder where the visionaries are. But i know the answer, and its not within any national federation in Europe. Leave it to the big guns, and that's the KHL. Either you accept it, or you keep swimming in that round old gold fish bowl you allready know all too well. I do understand that some people prefer it that way, but let them, the market is what it is and deep within many hockey fans there is a crave, and a jealousy towards the NHL and that they are stealing our best players since 40 years. People, lets get the balance back.

They're actually replacing it with a home and away series of friendlies, I think Finland's and Russia's tournaments will also stay. As for "no one caring" Attendances for Finland-Sweden speak a different language.

 

[Pominville Knows]

They're actually replacing it with a home and away series of friendlies, I think Finland's and Russia's tournaments will also stay. As for "no one caring" Attendances for Finland-Sweden speak a different language.

I was trying to make a point that the swedish federation are hardly in a position to say no to swedish citizens that are actually living here in Sweden. It would damage the pedestrian national teams during the winters a great deal put on top of that no NHL-players are there. It would spark similar reactions to when Bobby Hull amongst a few others was not allowed to play in the first Summit Series. That was in 1972, and no-one could pull a stunt like that today and get away with it. That is besides the civil discrimination charges they could get to face.

 

[robwangjing]

Since I did not get any response on my last post here in this thread I thought that I might make a new and shorter one.

I have lived in Beijing for quite some time, I love ice hockey and I believe that a Beijing team consisting of American AHL/NHL-players and the few best Chinese player would attract people to come watching.

This is because I know that Chinese people loves everything that is western, and even fake western, especially American stuff. Also many western people lives here in Beijing, and as far as I know this is the worlds biggest city, by population, so there are quite a few western people here indeed.

Since no one seems to be from Beijing or Shanghai I will ask everyone now.

What is your personal opinion of this, could a team in Beijing be a good move for any reason or is it bad and wouldn't sell?

 

[Jonimaus]

What is your personal opinion of this, could a team in Beijing be a good move for any reason or is it bad and wouldn't sell?

If Beijing can support a team why not?

My personal opinion has always been that a team should be able to support itself financially, make some profit or at least not bleed to much money. But it seems KHL thinks otherwise so I guess that point doesn't matter. But yeah, if they can support a team why not.

 

[malkinfan]

If Beijing can support a team why not?

My personal opinion has always been that a team should be able to support itself financially, make some profit or at least not bleed to much money. But it seems KHL thinks otherwise so I guess that point doesn't matter. But yeah, if they can support a team why not.

Ya, no problem but have to make a hundred baby steps before that.

1) Find owners with big dreams, big friends and big money bags
2) Market/build fan base and a valued team in domestic league
3) Prove worth in MHL/VHL for a few years
4) Okay if there is fan base, team, money, sponsors, proved worthy in Russian lower leagues/some other higher profile league: Now you need a new arena.

If all this somehow managed to happen, then wow, they deserve a team. Until then no way, you can't just plop a team there and hope for the best.

 

[vorky]

Since I did not get any response on my last post here in this thread I thought that I might make a new and shorter one.

I have lived in Beijing for quite some time, I love ice hockey and I believe that a Beijing team consisting of American AHL/NHL-players and the few best Chinese player would attract people to come watching.

This is because I know that Chinese people loves everything that is western, and even fake western, especially American stuff. Also many western people lives here in Beijing, and as far as I know this is the worlds biggest city, by population, so there are quite a few western people here indeed.

Since no one seems to be from Beijing or Shanghai I will ask everyone now.

What is your personal opinion of this, could a team in Beijing be a good move for any reason or is it bad and wouldn't sell?

Fetisov, former KHL´s vicepresident (still has influence in KHL), has a dream of asian-pacific division of KHL with russian far-east clubs (therefore newcomer Admiral Vladivostok), japan, korean or chinese teams. This is long-term plan and whoever if this happens. On the other hand, it can. KHL sees a market (money) in this region. For some posters, market is not only about fans interest in KHL´s eyes! It is about big companies to invest into hockey as well. Russia-China have a big projects, so big chinese firms can sponsor KHL one day. Just an idea...

I dont know if Beijing is the city where KHL club could land. If chinese ppl from Beijing wants to invest money into KHL club, so why not? I have to say again that this asian-pacific division will not happen anytime soon.

 

[tobu]

I am really looking forward to Jokerit fans coming to Bratislava. I'm sure some of them have already been here, quite certainly drunk, when Finland won the gold.

 

[robwangjing]

Thanks for your personal opinions people. Always nice to see what other people think.

Regarding the budget/sponsors of a Beijing based team I suppose it could be government supported like the Shanghai team is. The Shanghai team in the Asian League receives 8 or 10 million RMB per season, can't remember exactly but read it in a newspaper here in China before.

If the government is willing to pay for the treat, then I think the problem would be solved. But would they be willing to? Not sure. And probably not as long as they have a team in the Asian League.

And if not the government, what about government owned oil companies? Perhaps, perhaps not.

And as I kind of mentioned before, if this is to work out this needs to be more of an "American" entertainment. Make it ridiculous American in the arena. Perhaps even play the American anthem and stuff like this. Trust me, this would sell. How much it would sell and for how long is more difficult to answer.

And some might think, "will this help or stagger the Chinese hockey development?". I don't know. I think perhaps to have a Chinese team in the Asian League or VHL would be better for that. Or spend money to develop a better national Chinese league. Perhaps a university league.

 

[Salavat Yulaev]

As a KHL fan I am against its expansion to China or Japan. This is not going to make tournament more interesting. Couple European clubs more (preferably Sweden, Swiss or Norwegian) and that's it. Next step is to restore old famous clubs like Lada, Krylya sovetov, Sokol etc

 

[Jussi]

I am really looking forward to Jokerit fans coming to Bratislava. I'm sure some of them have already been here, quite certainly drunk, when Finland won the gold.

Club team fans and national team fans tend to be a different bunch in Finland.

 

[cska78]

As a KHL fan I am against its expansion to China or Japan. This is not going to make tournament more interesting. Couple European clubs more (preferably Sweden, Swiss or Norwegian) and that's it. Next step is to restore old famous clubs like Lada, Krylya sovetov, Sokol etc

Lada, being from such a small town - not sure there's any potential there, I hate saying it, but...

Krylya are doomed, so is Sokol, imho.

 

[robwangjing]

As a KHL fan I am against its expansion to China or Japan. This is not going to make tournament more interesting. Couple European clubs more (preferably Sweden, Swiss or Norwegian) and that's it. Next step is to restore old famous clubs like Lada, Krylya sovetov, Sokol etc

I partly agree with you. From a sport perspective I think top European clubs would be the best for KHL, but from a market perspective I think China would be better.

And it's because I think like this: If 1% of the Chinese population would find ice hockey interesting, this is 13 million people. And if 1% of them lives in Beijing, that is 130 thousands. And if just 1% of them would support a Beijing team in the KHL(become fans) that would be 13 hundreds.

The last figure of just 1 300 fans might not sound like much, but that number is actually higher than many teams in Denmark, France, Norway and other "middle" high league teams has in Europe. Countries with national teams in the WC.

And let's say that less than 1% of China felt interest in the KHL, that would still be several millions of people. Could be more viewers than the whole population of Sweden or Finland.

So from my point of view a great market for the KHL.

 

[obskyr]

According to the governor of Samara:
- Lada still considers the possibility of rejoining the league next year
- capacity of the new Lada arena may be expanded to 8,000 seats
- Renault-Nissan already agreed to support the team in the future
link

 

[loppa*]

According to the governor of Samara:
- Lada still considers the possibility of rejoining the league next year
- capacity of the new Lada arena may be expanded to 8,000 seats
- Renault-Nissan already agreed to support the team in the future
link

If they come back it will probably be only temporary, in my opinion. They will be knocked off, and others too, as there will be need to expand a bit more to the west.

As a KHL fan I am against its expansion to China or Japan. This is not going to make tournament more interesting. Couple European clubs more (preferably Sweden, Swiss or Norwegian) and that's it. Next step is to restore old famous clubs like Lada, Krylya sovetov, Sokol etc

I'd support expansion into Krasnoyarsk. Perhaps one day, though I'd rather not, Irkutsk or Juzno Sakhalinsk... but I would not have any issue if that is decided. To China or Japan, no, I wouldn't be in favor of that.

 

[obskyr]

If they come back it will probably be only temporary, in my opinion. They will be knocked off, and others too, as there will be need to expand a bit more to the west.

It's one of the bigger markets in Russia that has rather strong hockey traditions, good chances for stable corporate support and a governor who cares for sports. There are at least five local markets in the league right now that have much less potential. And considering the 32 team limit I don't see as many possibilites for replacement in the west. And, yes, it's much better than Irkutsk or Sakahalin.

Pls, no need to London/Paris/Hamilton-Ontario me, that's ridiculous. And I don't even like the Togliatti expansion myself.

 

[loppa*]

It's one of the bigger markets in Russia that has rather strong hockey traditions, good chances for stable corporate support and a governor who cares for sports. There are at least five local markets in the league right now that have much less potential. And considering the 32 team limit I don't see as many possibilites for replacement in the west. And, yes, it's much better than Irkutsk or Sakahalin.

Pls, no need to London/Paris/Hamilton-Ontario me, that's ridiculous. And I don't even like the Togliatti expansion myself.

Look, in theory it is a fine place for a team, but with such a small arena (pitiful 6,000) it's simply not good...

 

[Ivan94]

Look, in theory it is a fine place for a team, but with such a small arena (pitiful 6,000) it's simply not good...

if the chinese begin to built today, a 25.000 arena will be completed before 2013/14 season start.