KHL Expansion part II

[ult]

That's what happens when the establishment in your country is hockey ignorant. All those dumb ass governors don't even realize how much their populist initiatives would harm the championship in its current state.

You're freaking clueless. The people in south crave for hockey. The junior world championship games had 10000 people attending them, even though arena was in the middle of construction site and there were only 2 ticket windows for the whole city and people had to wait hours to get theirs. The Kuban in VHL had 6th best average attendance, and almost all games were sold out. Not to mention that Sochi has the best arena in Russia.

 

[obskyr]

???????

I mean, you can't do that. Russian hockey doesn't have enough players available for another competitive team. Even Admiral with their exclusive 7 foreign players limit looks simply pathetic. It's not soccer where you can bring a lower level team for a couple of seasons. Adding a VHL team to the KHL would only harm the league. And if there's anyone Tkachev should've started negotiations with it's Mikhail Golovkov of Vityaz. But he would never even consider that, because it's unlikely that he's aware that sports franchises can be relocated, because he doesn't know jack **** about hockey. Just like the majority of the Russian population.

 

[ozo]

I mean, you can't do that. Russian hockey doesn't have enough players available for another competitive team. Even Admiral with their exclusive 7 foreign players limit looks simply pathetic. It's not soccer where you can bring a lower level team for a couple of seasons. Adding a VHL team to the KHL would only harm the league. And if there's anyone Tkachev should've started negotiations with it's Mikhail Golovkov of Vityaz. But he would never even consider that, because it's unlikely that he's aware that sports franchises can be relocated, because he doesn't know jack **** about hockey. Just like the majority of the Russian population.

Why would you relocate a perfectly good franchise? And after all relocation doesn't really work anywhere besides NA.

 

[obskyr]

You're freaking clueless. The people in south crave for hockey. The junior world championship games had 10000 people attending them, even though arena was in the middle of construction site and there were only 2 ticket windows for the whole city and people had to wait hours to get theirs. The Kuban in VHL had 6th best average attendance, and almost all games were sold out. Not to mention that Sochi has the best arena in Russia.

But does the rest of the hockey world carve for the team in Sochi? Did those people come to see hockey or was that just their first trip to the Olympic park? The attendance in Voronezh is just as high low, so how people there deserve a team less than the fans in Krasnodar? Megasport is the best arena in Moscow.

 

[obskyr]

Why would you relocate a perfectly good franchise? And after all relocation doesn't really work anywhere besides NA.

That perfectly good franchise was just moved to another city.

 

[ozo]

That perfectly good franchise was just moved to another city.

Just because league made them?

 

[ult]

But does the rest of the hockey world carve for the team in Sochi? Did those people come to see hockey or was that just their first trip to the Olympic park? The attendance in Voronezh is just as high low, so how people there deserve a team less than the fans in Krasnodar? Megasport is the best arena in Moscow.

Does Voronezh has Olympic level infrastructure and Ak Bars level financing?

And don't even start me on Megasport vs Bolshoi Ice Dome, or I'll flood this thread with comparison pictures and specifications. The only thing Megasport has over Bolshoi Ice dome is the capacity, in rest it is 10 years behind it, hence the plan to renovate it before WC 2016.

As for the talk about the lack of talent pool, in the light of the 2014/2015 season changes it can be dismissed completely.

 

[obskyr]

Does Voronezh has Olympic level infrastructure and Ak Bars level financing?

And don't even start me on Megasport vs Bolshoi Ice Dome, or I'll flood this thread with comparison pictures and specifications. The only thing Megasport has over Bolshoi Ice dome is the capacity, in rest it is 10 years behind it, hence the plan to renovate it before WC 2016.

As for the talk about the lack of talent pool, in the light of the 2014/2015 season changes it can be dismissed completely.

Does Krasnodar have?

I'm not starting on Megasport vs. Bolshoi, I'm comparing it to Sokolniki and the CSKA palace.

What changes? It's not even the light at the end of the tunnel. You can't see them.

 

[obskyr]

Just because league made them?

And why did they do that?

 

[ozo]

And why did they do that?

Because the team was going bust and was generally miserable? Not really, right?

 

[obskyr]

Because the team was going bust and was generally miserable? Not really, right?

So the move was unreasonable?

 

[ult]

Does Krasnodar have?

I'm not starting on Megasport vs. Bolshoi, I'm comparing it to Sokolniki and the CSKA palace.

What changes? It's not even the light at the end of the tunnel. You can't see them.

Yes. I'm sure you're aware that Krasnodar is one of the richest regions in Russia. And when when it comes to sport, we can see that every professional team there is having quite the success with local public. And there are not many teams in Russia who can prosper without the budget support, like Krasnodar for example (when their owner will finish the construction of 36000 stadium, he'll be able to make money on his football team, quite the achievement). And with Tkachev's backing you won't have to worry about the well being of hockey team in Sochi.

Changes in the foreigner rule. KHL will either expand it to 8-10 spots, or they'll make it so that players from KHL countries won't be considered foreigners at all. I think it's pretty evident that KHL is caring less and less about FHR's opinion.

 

[ozo]

So the move was unreasonable?

It was a must. That can't be said about a move to Sochi.

 

[obskyr]

Yes. I'm sure you're aware that Krasnodar is one of the richest regions in Russia. And when when it comes to sport, we can see that every professional team there is having quite the success with local public. And there are not many teams in Russia who can prosper without the budget support, like Krasnodar for example (when their owner will finish the construction of 36000 stadium, he'll be able to make money on his football team, quite the achievement). And with Tkachev's backing you won't have to worry about the well being of hockey team in Sochi.

Changes in the foreigner rule. KHL will either expand it to 8-10 spots, or they'll make it so that players from KHL countries won't be considered foreigners at all. I think it's pretty evident that KHL is caring less and less about FHR's opinion.

The arena is in Sochi, which is further from Krasnodar than say Rostov or Stavropol.

All the changes are up in the air. If you want to take them into consideration it's too premature to discuss creation of a new team. And it's not like the Kuban officials would care for that stuff in any way.

 

[vorky]

I mean, you can't do that. Russian hockey doesn't have enough players available for another competitive team. Even Admiral with their exclusive 7 foreign players limit looks simply pathetic. It's not soccer where you can bring a lower level team for a couple of seasons. Adding a VHL team to the KHL would only harm the league. And if there's anyone Tkachev should've started negotiations with it's Mikhail Golovkov of Vityaz. But he would never even consider that, because it's unlikely that he's aware that sports franchises can be relocated, because he doesn't know jack **** about hockey. Just like the majority of the Russian population.

What if there is a plan to send Vityaz to VHL next summer or so?? I dont know, but I have a feeling ... look "behind scenes" of Vityaz ownership.

Just read ult´s post for rest, I agree with them.

Does Voronezh has Olympic level infrastructure and Ak Bars level financing?

And don't even start me on Megasport vs Bolshoi Ice Dome, or I'll flood this thread with comparison pictures and specifications. The only thing Megasport has over Bolshoi Ice dome is the capacity, in rest it is 10 years behind it, hence the plan to renovate it before WC 2016.

As for the talk about the lack of talent pool, in the light of the 2014/2015 season changes it can be dismissed completely.

Yes. I'm sure you're aware that Krasnodar is one of the richest regions in Russia. And when when it comes to sport, we can see that every professional team there is having quite the success with local public. And there are not many teams in Russia who can prosper without the budget support, like Krasnodar for example (when their owner will finish the construction of 36000 stadium, he'll be able to make money on his football team, quite the achievement). And with Tkachev's backing you won't have to worry about the well being of hockey team in Sochi.

Changes in the foreigner rule. KHL will either expand it to 8-10 spots, or they'll make it so that players from KHL countries won't be considered foreigners at all. I think it's pretty evident that KHL is caring less and less about FHR's opinion.

 

[obskyr]

It was a must. That can't be said about a move to Sochi.

Nothing about the KHL in Sochi is a must. But still relocation would be the lesser evil in this case. It doesn't mean that option is a necessary decision, it's just better than another Admiral.

 

[vorky]

I dont know if I understand you... if not, then sorry. IMO KHL has long-term plan which counts with Sochi as KHL city, what can not be said about Podolsk/Chekhov.

 

[ult]

The arena is in Sochi, which is further from Krasnodar than say Rostov or Stavropol.

All the changes are up in the air. If you want to take them into consideration it's too premature to discuss creation of a new team. And it's not like the Kuban officials would care for that stuff in any way.

It doesn't matter how far is the arena. As I said, Sochi will have better attendance than any of the Moscow teams, or half of the league for that matter. They have everything to lure the viewers in. So stop trying to make vague, bogus reasons as to why it is a bad thing. I can't see what's so bad in developing and popularizing hockey as a sport in the region with 5,5 million people. They're willing to develop junior hockey, they're building dozens of rinks, and they're Russians, it's not like the hockey isn't popular already there.

Relocate? It's just the semantics, you and I both know that players and coaches are changing clubs like gloves.

 

[obskyr]

It doesn't matter how far is the arena. As I said, Sochi will have better attendance than any of the Moscow teams, or half of the league for that matter. They have everything to lure the viewers in. So stop trying to make vague, bogus reasons as to why it is a bad thing. I can't see what's so bad in developing and popularizing hockey as a sport in the region with 5,5 million people. They're willing to develop junior hockey, they're building dozens of rinks, and they're Russians, it's not like the hockey isn't popular already there.

Nothing really suggests good attendance in Sochi. It never had hockey teams and never had much of an intersest in sports (see Zhemchuzhina). I'd have no questions if the Black Sea coast was a big metropolitan area similar to Miami or they wanted to bring a VHL team. Developing hockey is great, so let them spend all the money they're saving for overpaid KHL players on youth hockey instead.

And trusting delusions like

they're Russians, it's not like the hockey isn't popular already there.

was one of the first mistakes made by the KHL.

 

[ult]

Nothing? 10 000 people on junior hockey games. Great, comfortable arena, with family-friendly environment, that people will come to to just have a good time. Easy and fast access through the state of the art transportation system. Affordable ticket prices. Good marketing. No other sport events of such level in the city - no competition whatsoever. Much more developed culture of visiting everything there's to visit in the south, where people didn't forget how to just spend some free time outside, unlike Moscow.

Yeah, like there are sooo many better places in Russia to expand to.

Someone's stuck in the past...

 

[obskyr]

Nothing? 10 000 people on junior hockey games. Great, comfortable arena, with family-friendly environment, that people will come to to just have a good time.

10,000 people who came to visit the newly built Olympic objects, for the Team Russia event. It's not your regular Churchkhela Sochi game.

Affordable ticket prices. Good marketing.

What? Where? The team doesn't even exist.

Yeah, like there are sooo many better places in Russia to expand to.

Any city with population bigger than one million is a better choice. So, yeah, there are. But there's no need for them at this point.

There are no magic southerners who will start filling up arenas and get mad for hockey. There's only your faith in them. That's not how pro sports work.

 

[ult]

10,000 people who came to visit the newly built Olympic objects, for the Team Russia event. It's not your regular Churchkhela Sochi game.

Yeah. Game after game they kept coming back and couldn't get enough. That's called audience. Making the object an attractive destination is part of sports management.

What? Where? The team doesn't even exist.

That is two easy steps to improve attendance, which can be implemented right away, whether they'll have any doubts about the attendance or not.

Any city with population bigger than one million is a better choice. So, yeah, there are. But there's no need for them at this point.

There are no magic southerners who will start filling up arenas and get mad for hockey. There's only your faith in them. That's not how pro sports work.

So I'm telling you, name me the city with existing infrastructure, 12000 seat arena worth 250 000 000 dollars, modern airport, 5 star hotels and Governor's support. Any city who can join today? In a year?

I'm getting tired of repeating the obvious stuff again and again. It's not rocket science. How dense one can be? Omsk or Yaroslavl or Khabarovsk aren't some magic places where people are born with love for hockey. Everyone has had to start from the beginning at some point. And it's just so happened that Russia has already spent a great deal on Sochi, and it's just sitting there and waiting with everything ready but the 20 hockey players and a coach. It will be an immense stupidity and a huge waste to not jump at this opportunity.

 

[obskyr]

That is two easy steps to improve attendance, which can be implemented right away, whether they'll have any doubts about the attendance or not.

Those steps are easy when they're done by competent professionals. And Russia has a shortage of them, case in point: the team in another budget dump of the late, Vladivostok.

So I'm telling you, name me the city with existing infrastructure, 12000 seat arena worth 250 000 000 dollars, modern airport, 5 star hotels and Governor's support. Any city who can join today? In a year?

Helsinki, next season.

And it's just so happened that Russia has already spent a great deal on Sochi, and it's just sitting there and waiting with everything ready but the 20 hockey players and a coach. It will be an immense stupidity and a huge waste to not jump at this opportunity.

You don't really need a KHL team for that. The only difference that the KHL would make is big money. And I have no doubts that Tkachov's circle wouldn't waste such an oppotrunity to get around them once again, yeah.

 

[Latgale_fan]

There are no magic southerners who will start filling up arenas and get mad for hockey. There's only your faith in them. That's not how pro sports work.

Well, Zagreb managed to average 7900 fan average playing in Austrian EBEL. They've already sold out a few of their KHL games, if they played in Arena Zagreb I wouldn't say the average of 9-10 000 wouldn't be possible.

There are certainly places in South where hockey can work. I also don't understand people's skepticism about Zagreb which has constantly averaged 7000+ playing in EBEL who say that ''there'll be no fans''.

Don't no about Sochi, but if there's a team in Khanti-Mansiysk then why not Sochi? Even if they are ''southerners'' they're still Russians for whom hockey is nr.2 sport, unlike the guys in Florida for whom hockey is the last thing on their minds... The city is not big, but the population (and I presume money) is constantly on the rise.

 

[vorky]

I dont know why obskyr is sceptic about Sochi. The city and region is growing, the same Vladivostok ... Big sport is where money are.