KHL Attendance

[Jussi]

Actually i do understand the politics well enough, Croatia Czech republic and Russia were in the same freaking system for some 50 odd years. Its different now but not that different at the same time.
But you are wrong there seams to be a clear tendency to change and westernize their style of running the clubs and the league. And by westernize i mean make it more NHL style. Closing the league is the first step. And they want to be a NHL contender or atleast to be a good option for talent to stay/come to KHL instead of NHL.
The ticket thing is why (partly) i said it will never be a true franchise but a sort of a hybrid. With bigger arenas and need for work with the fans and better marketing, being creative and so on it would bring in more people. At first it will be quantity vs quality(price). That will bring new stabile revenue. As the Russian standard grows in a certain region and in general tickets will go higher.
Also SHL while they have higher ticket prices and higher buying power you are forgetting they have much higher taxes on everything, so what a team gets from it is probably the same as russian clubs. Its just not that simple.
US has lower taxes than most of EU/Russia and higher buying power.


YOu hit the nail right on the head there. It still brings prestige, attention and marketing to the country big time. Cold war or no Cold war it is still as important.

Actually the taxes can be very high for sports men depending on the state. Some states tax visiting sports team's players as well, meaning the tax percentage can climb up ~45% in some player's cases.

The big difference to the Cold War era is that hockey isn't as big of a sport globally that one can really market oneself.

I've said it before but if the KHL really wanted to entice more European clubs to join KHL, they'd have to make the cap system truly more like the NHL where teams have a much easier chance to make profit. That would include dropping the cap ceiling to a level that teams could be able to achieve with dominantly domestic sponsors and little reliance on Russian money. If it we're around 20 million dollars for 3-5 years (with re-evaluation after that), it would be much easier to garner interest from Europe, when clubs would know they wouldn't have to overspend and they would be on a level playing field with other clubs capwise.

 

[bobbeaver]

Actually the taxes can be very high for sports men depending on the state. Some states tax visiting sports team's players as well, meaning the tax percentage can climb up ~45% in some player's cases.

That is completely true about the players and it might be that players pay also for flights and hotels to the club (NBA does that), but i was talking about buying power of a fan, or a citizen in general, which is greater than in EU, their lesser taxation than EU and what the club gets. I must say i dont really know how much NHL teams pay in taxes. I guess it depends on the team as they in general pay more taxes on profits than the initial tax on the product but that varies aswell by state. But i do know the tickets are not heavily taxed so clubs get more out of them.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I've said it before but if the KHL really wanted to entice more European clubs to join KHL, they'd have to make the cap system truly more like the NHL where teams have a much easier chance to make profit. That would include dropping the cap ceiling to a level that teams could be able to achieve with dominantly domestic sponsors and little reliance on Russian money. If it we're around 20 million dollars for 3-5 years (with re-evaluation after that), it would be much easier to garner interest from Europe, when clubs would know they wouldn't have to overspend and they would be on a level playing field with other clubs capwise.

It makes some sense, but now what do you do, you go to SKA and Ak Bars and tell them to buy out half of their squad to accomodate Jokerit? Also, it's not that it's only "Russian money". Football teams aren't really controlled by "Russian money" if we count out Chelsea, Monaco, Schalke, Red Star (well I'm not a football expert so maybe there are a few more examples, but it's not too many teams anyway), so you should focus on making hockey more popular in those countries. If hockey will be popular money will come

 

[Peter25]

KHL attendance is tied 3rd/4th in EUROPE

I believe KHL attendance is second in Europe after Switzerland. And KHL would be first if only the 12-15 best teams were counted.

 

[Jonimaus]

I believe KHL attendance is second in Europe after Switzerland. And KHL would be first if only the 12-15 best teams were counted.

And Sweden would be higher if 2 of our biggest teams attendance-wise were not stuck in the 2nd division!

And Swedish football league would have great attendance if you didn't count the trash teams!

And if my legs were 10 meters I'd run super fast!

You see where I'm going with this? Should of, could of, would of.

 

[Peter25]

And Sweden would be higher if 2 of our biggest teams attendance-wise were not stuck in the 2nd division!

Consider the size of KHL. It is almost a 30 team league. There are some "bad apples" (Spartak, Vityaz, CSKA) in the KHL that lower the average attendance figures.

 

[Jonimaus]

Consider the size of KHL. It is almost a 30 team league. There are some "bad apples" (Spartak, Vityaz, CSKA) in the KHL that lower the average attendance figures.

So what? It's still could of, would of, should of. You can't cherry pick like that. Either get rid of those teams or accept that they are dragging your attendance down. All Swedish leagues has "bad apples" as you call them, because our leagues are based on how the team does on the pitch, not how much cash they have. Deal with it.

 

[Jussi]

And Sweden would be higher if 2 of our biggest teams attendance-wise were not stuck in the 2nd division!

And Swedish football league would have great attendance if you didn't count the trash teams!

And if my legs were 10 meters I'd run super fast!

You see where I'm going with this? Should of, could of, would of.

You do realize you're talking to the poster who constantly reminds everyone of the moral winner of the 1987 Canada Cup?

 

[bobbeaver]

well things will change though to a point this year and much more in next 2-3 years as the new big arenas are built and the attendance will jump quite fast. Maybe not the % wise but avg attendance wise certainly. Aswell some new clubs will come with new bigger arenas into KHL and im sure that will help aswell Although there will be bad apples in the league with small arenas and low attendance, it still will be notch above other leagues.
Although i must say here that most teams have not learned what some do very well (like SKA), and that is marketing, making a show, and having good nurturing relationships with the fans is important. Hockey is not enough. Not if you want to get consistently over 10k spectators.

 

[obskyr]

So what? It's still could of, would of, should of. You can't cherry pick like that. Either get rid of those teams or accept that they are dragging your attendance down. All Swedish leagues has "bad apples" as you call them, because our leagues are based on how the team does on the pitch, not how much cash they have. Deal with it.

The absolute numbers remain incomparable. No leauge in Europe is as big as the KHL. Exactly a half of the Top 20 most attended clubs outside of North America are KHL clubs too.

 

[Jonimaus]

The absolute numbers remain incomparable. No leauge in Europe is as big as the KHL. Exactly a half of the Top 20 most attended clubs outside of North America are KHL clubs too.

I don't know how little money the average person makes in Russia, but your ticket prices seems to be beyond pathetic, you are pretty much giving them away for free. I can assure you if that was the case in any country, they'd have really freaking high attendance.

But I guess not all leagues can depend on handouts and not rely on people paying to watch the teams.

 

[obskyr]

I don't know how little money the average person makes in Russia, but your ticket prices seems to be beyond pathetic, you are pretty much giving them away for free. I can assure you if that was the case in any country, they'd have really freaking high attendance.

But I guess not all leagues can depend on handouts and not rely on people paying to watch the teams.

See? Now it's you who starts to go with "could of, would of, should of". : D

 

[Den]

the moral winner of the 1987 Canada Cup?

Who's that?

 

[Den]

I can assure you if that was the case in any country, they'd have really freaking high attendance.

Nope, ex, I can easily afford Swedish prices, but don't go often to games: family, work, jogging at night, spending a night outside with my telescope, etc...

 

[Jonimaus]

Nope, ex, I can easily afford Swedish prices, but don't go often to games: family, work, jogging at night, spending a night outside with my telescope, etc...

Of course, but if the tickets were slightly above a busticket ride, I'd go a hell lot more than I am doing now. Now it's mostly something I plan at least a week ahead before I go to a game, if tickets were extremely cheap I'd just go when I felt for it.

 

[Den]

Of course, but if the tickets were slightly above a busticket ride, I'd go a hell lot more than I am doing now.

Busticket is 26SEK=4$. Do such prices exist in the KHL? 8$ on the other hand, quoted above, is what you would pay for a "family ticket" last year in a DIF or AIK game.

 

[Jonimaus]

Busticket is 26SEK=4$. Do such prices exist in the KHL? 8$ on the other hand, quoted above, is what you would pay for a "family ticket" last year in a DIF or AIK game.

I don't know, but obskyr listed some KHL prices and they were beyond cheap, basically free. I realize 2€ doesn't translate to 2€ in Sweden, but still.

 

[Jussi]

Who's that?

Well since he's a Finnish Russophile, take a guess.

 

[Jussi]

Nope, ex, I can easily afford Swedish prices, but don't go often to games: family, work, jogging at night, spending a night outside with my telescope, etc...

Pervert...

 

[bobbeaver]

I don't know, but obskyr listed some KHL prices and they were beyond cheap, basically free. I realize 2€ doesn't translate to 2€ in Sweden, but still.

You are forgetting one thing. EVERYTHING is cheaper outside of Sweden And by a large margin. In Zagreb its 5 bus/tram tickets in the 1st zone for 1 game ticket Just saying it isnt not even close the same. and people are not used to paying large amounts of money for tickets.

 

[Jussi]

You are forgetting one thing. EVERYTHING is cheaper outside of Sweden And by a large margin. In Zagreb its 5 bus/tram tickets in the 1st zone for 1 game ticket Just saying it isnt not even close the same. and people are not used to paying large amounts of money for tickets.

You haven't been to Finland...

 

[Den]

You haven't been to Finland...

Norway, Denmark, Switzerland... Even London

 

[Jussi]

Norway, Denmark, Switzerland... Even London

Actually top 3 most expensive countries in the EU are Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Luxembourg tied, in that order.

 

[bobbeaver]

yeah but he was comparing how its almost 1 bus ticket in sweden coasts as much as a game in KHL, although he said like the bus tickets were everywhere the same price. That was from his point of view ridiculing the KHL. My point was the expensiveness of the price is specific to each country or even region, depending on taxation, buying power and prices of all other things. Comparing prices of Sweden, Finland or Denmark to other countries and setting that as some sort of a standard is ridiculous. As a simple comparison with the prices of alcohol in places like Finland from my point of view is extra expensive, and most of us wouldnt drink at all if we were there, yet you guys get drunk every weekend (i got friends in Finland ).

 

[Jonimaus]

yeah but he was comparing how its almost 1 bus ticket in sweden coasts as much as a game in KHL, although he said like the bus tickets were everywhere the same price. That was from his point of view ridiculing the KHL. My point was the expensiveness of the price is specific to each country or even region, depending on taxation, buying power and prices of all other things. Comparing prices of Sweden, Finland or Denmark to other countries and setting that as some sort of a standard is ridiculous. As a simple comparison with the prices of alcohol in places like Finland from my point of view is extra expensive, and most of us wouldnt drink at all if we were there, yet you guys get drunk every weekend (i got friends in Finland ).

I was not using it to make fun of KHL, I was just surprised the ticket prices were that low. Of course I knew everything is cheaper in Russia, but I didn't know to what extent.