KHL and the World Cup (Mod warning post 355)

[jekoh]

Has Europe even made a bid to get a World cup of hockey if it is played?

why don't they try that instead of just hogging all the world championships every year for themselves.

Since when do you 'bid' for the Canada/World Cup?

Is there a board with representatives from Sweden, Czechia etc. that decide which bid gets to host?

I don't think there is.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

What you are not getting is that the issue is the World Cup, particularly the elimination round, is always held in Canada.

You cannot say the same for the World Championships : they are not held in the same country all the time. Indeed Canada hosted it 5 years ago.

Plus your comparing NA and Europe is ridiculous anyway: if a tournament is to be held in each of the participating countries alternatively, it's almost never going be held in NA (since there are more countries in Europe, plus NA never bids), and that's perfectly fine.

You know what?

At this point I would be fine with every single international Hockey tournament being held in Europe.

Just so long as I never had to hear any of this crap again.

I for one would be fine with that, have a blast European Hockey fans!!

 

[Sanderson]

Are the WJC's the world championship of senior mens hockey? in other words, the pinnacle of hockey played in the world?

If you can't see the difference here I don't know what to tell you.

Has Europe even made a bid to get a World cup of hockey if it is played?

why don't they try that instead of just hogging all the world championships every year for themselves.

What you are not getting, is that to host the World Championship, you actually have to apply for it. Novel concept, I know

Every nation is free to declare their interest in hosting the tournament. Canada has done so once, and they got it right away. The USA has never applied to host the tournament. If you have a problem with neither of the North American nations having hosted the tournament all that often, blame the ones who are responsible for that, your federations. The IIHF cannot force the WCH onto a country.

And what exactly is "themselves"?
The IIHF is the combination of all the national federations, including the ones from the USA and Canada. It is not a single entity. As such it is completely incapable of keeping anything for itself. The idea that somehow "Europe" is to be treated as one unit is such a big joke that it is not even worth commenting on.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

What you are not getting, is that to host the World Championship, you actually have to apply for it. Novel concept, I know

Every nation is free to declare their interest in hosting the tournament. Canada has done so once, and they got it right away. The USA has never applied to host the tournament. If you have a problem with neither of the North American nations having hosted the tournament all that often, blame the ones who are responsible for that, your federations. The IIHF cannot force the WCH onto a country.

And what exactly is "themselves"?
The IIHF is the combination of all the national federations, including the ones from the USA and Canada. It is not a single entity. As such it is completely incapable of keeping anything for itself. The idea that somehow "Europe" is to be treated as one unit is such a big joke that it is not even worth commenting on.

If you would read my last post you will see I am perfectly fine with having every tournament in Europe so no need to bring this up with me any further.

They can have them in Russia, Finland, Sweden,Bulgaria, whatever.

They can have IIHF refs as long as they know how to call a Hockey game with competence and they can also have these refs from the country my team is playing as long as they are professional.

They can have them all on big ice or small ice, whatever Europe chooses.

They can play only on Sundays or just on Mondays, or only in a leap year, doesn't matter to me as long as you guys are happy and are satisfied things are fair.

And you know why? Because I am not insecure about the teams we are going to send and do not need all things our way and we are gonna win our share anyway.

 

[JackSlater]

Correct, which completes the ultimate dream of NHL marketing executives, who need to pump hockey interest in the USA. .

Canada - USA was the final twice in seven (29%) Canada/World Cups. Canada - USA was the final in two of five (40%) Olympic tournaments with NHL participation. Someone should tell the IIHF to stop rigging the Olympic tournament for its dream Canada - USA final.

And the KHL has absolutely zero incentive to cooperate with this.

Correct, and lack of incentives for other leagues to participate is the main issue with the tournament.

 

[Macman]

Since when do you 'bid' for the Canada/World Cup?

Is there a board with representatives from Sweden, Czechia etc. that decide which bid gets to host?

I don't think there is.

Some World Cup games were played in Europe last time, which suggests there is some way for European cities to host and some willingness on the part of the NHL to let them do so.

 

[Macman]

What you are not getting, is that to host the World Championship, you actually have to apply for it. Novel concept, I know

Every nation is free to declare their interest in hosting the tournament. Canada has done so once, and they got it right away. The USA has never applied to host the tournament. If you have a problem with neither of the North American nations having hosted the tournament all that often, blame the ones who are responsible for that, your federations. The IIHF cannot force the WCH onto a country.

And what you're not getting is that it's not as simple as just applying in Canada's case. There aren't enough large non-NHL arenas in the country to make viable bids. NHL rinks are out of the question because of the possibility of playoffs when the worlds are held.

 

[Lollipop]

Some World Cup games were played in Europe last time, which suggests there is some way for European cities to host and some willingness on the part of the NHL to let them do so.

Yeah, what a great idea!! The European teams need to do a long trip from Europe to NA during the tournament because the medal rounds are always in NA. What a great willingness from NHL. Canada and USA get more advantage....

Sorry until IIHF take over Canada cup it will be a major crap.

 

[Theokritos]

Has Europe even made a bid to get a World cup of hockey if it is played?

As far as I remember the Europeans (Finns etc) had to pressurize the NHL into games being held in Europe back in 1996 ("we get those games or we don't participate"), there is no way to make a bid. It's a NHL organized tournament, the successor of the Canada Cup, it's understood (by the organizers) that it's held in North America.

Some World Cup games were played in Europe last time, which suggests there is some way for European cities to host and some willingness on the part of the NHL to let them do so.

Perfect, now extend this willingness to the semifinals and finals every second tournament and you're almost at the finish.

Correct, and lack of incentives for other leagues to participate is the main issue with the tournament.

Indeed. Alternate hosting + money would be an incentive however. Not too difficult to get it done.

 

[Macman]

Yeah, what a great idea!! The European teams need to do a long trip from Europe to NA during the tournament because the medal rounds are always in NA. What a great willingness from NHL. Canada and USA get more advantage....

Yeah, imagine having to fly overseas to play games. That's never been done.

Instead of shooting everything down, why don't you wait and see what's being proposed. There has already been talk of the World Cup being hosted elsewhere. It would be a natural progression.

 

[Xokkeu]

Yeah, because the KHL is the best league in the world and would send to this tournament like 80 % of the players. Right.


But of course, I'm all in, to make the tournament when KHL can send their players, that's for sure.

Your hyperbole just undermines your point.

 

[Jussi]

Some World Cup games were played in Europe last time, which suggests there is some way for European cities to host and some willingness on the part of the NHL to let them do so.

That was NHL's way of throwing a bone for Europeans and to get more interest in other European countries since the Cold War was over. Let's not even pretend NHL would ever consider having the semifinal and final in Europe and not on Canadian primetime.

 

[aphyro]

Lol this discussion about the legacy of a tournament is really funny...

Why don't i see this **** from the Swedish fans in mma or any other countery when our fighters is over to USA and Canada and fighting... and the refs is all americans and the scoring jug aswell...

and the best is ther is american company who hostes it...

so this talk about hockey isnt corupted give me a break... stop whine like little girls or just shut up about that.

 

[jekoh]

Some World Cup games were played in Europe last time, which suggests there is some way for European cities to host and some willingness on the part of the NHL to let them do so.

You miss the point, of course there is 'some' of it, but the decision is still only the NHL's. It's therefore completely different from a normal bidding process with a fair voting committee as is the case with the IIHF.

So saying the World Cup finals are not held in Europe because Europeans don't 'bid' is ridiculous: first it's entirely possible that they did apply, but if they didn't it's simply down to their application having no chance of being accepted.

 

[jekoh]

And what you're not getting is that it's not as simple as just applying in Canada's case. There aren't enough large non-NHL arenas in the country to make viable bids. NHL rinks are out of the question because of the possibility of playoffs when the worlds are held.

Canada and Luxemburg both lack available venues to make viable bids. That's too bad, but that's nobody else's fault.

 

[Canuckistani]

What you are not getting is that the issue is the World Cup, particularly the elimination round, is always held in Canada.

Not true.

In 1996 both QFs were held in Canada; the SFs were held in Philadelphia and Ottawa (with Canada playing in Philly and USA in Ottawa), while the final was held in Philadelphia (game 1) and Montreal (games 2-3).

In 2004 QFs were held in Helsinki, Stockholm, St Paul and Toronto. St Paul also hosted a SF, while Toronto got a SF and the Final.

Pretty diverse, given that its a tournamant played on two continents.

 

[Theokritos]

Not true...

Anyway, if you want the KHL etc to join in, give the SF and F to Europe and North America alternatingly.

 

[Canuckistani]

Why don't i see this **** from the Swedish fans in mma or any other countery when our fighters is over to USA and Canada and fighting... and the refs is all americans and the scoring jug aswell...

I guess because fans rightly assume that a MMA fighter can either win or he cannot.

Yet for some reason when it comes to hockey the location of the ice rink supposedly makes all the difference in the world.

You'd think people would notice that it was only last year that the WHC "home ice curse" was finally broken after 27 years. Home ice hasn't proven to be much of an advantage at the Olympics or WJC either.

 

[aphyro]

I guess because fans rightly assume that a MMA fighter can either win or he cannot.

Yet for some reason when it comes to hockey the location of the ice rink supposedly makes all the difference in the world.

You'd think people would notice that it was only last year that the WHC "home ice curse" was finally broken after 27 years. Home ice hasn't proven to be much of an advantage at the Olympics or WJC either.

Probably but the ref can still rob the fighter of the win if it goes to decsision... so i still wondering why the hell is the hockey fans so afraid of this? when in other sports they seems like they don't care... where the fight are or who the ref's are...

 

[Canuckistani]

Anyway, if you want the KHL etc to join in, give the SF and F to Europe and North America alternatingly.

I'd be fine with that.

 

[jekoh]

Not true.

In 1996 both QFs were held in Canada; the SFs were held in Philadelphia and Ottawa (with Canada playing in Philly and USA in Ottawa), while the final was held in Philadelphia (game 1) and Montreal (games 2-3).

In 2004 QFs were held in Helsinki, Stockholm, St Paul and Toronto. St Paul also hosted a SF, while Toronto got a SF and the Final.

So they were both held in Canada.

 

[Theokritos]

I'd be fine with that.

Europeans are fine with it too, now it's up to the NHL.

 

[Canuckistani]

So they were both held in Canada.

No, the elimination round is not always held in Canada, as you initially claimed. It's been held in Finland, Sweden, USA and Canada.

Or are you now defining the elimination round as being only the final game?

 

[Macman]

You miss the point, of course there is 'some' of it, but the decision is still only the NHL's. It's therefore completely different from a normal bidding process with a fair voting committee as is the case with the IIHF.

So saying the World Cup finals are not held in Europe because Europeans don't 'bid' is ridiculous: first it's entirely possible that they did apply, but if they didn't it's simply down to their application having no chance of being accepted.

You're presuming something without really knowing what's being planned. The Canada Cup was a Canadian tournament, but the World Cup made a move toward internationalism during its one tournament by holding games in the States and Europe. Not perfect but there has already been talk of it being hosted elsewhere in the future if this thing evolves. Of course, it never will evolve if Europeans keep shooting it down and suggesting it's somehow unfair to actually expect their best to play on small ice in North America occasionally instead of big ice in Europe 95 per cent of the time.

As for the NHL being the only decision-maker? Come on, that's what negotiations are for. Nobody was hog-tied into going to the Canada Cup and I doubt anyone will be hog-tied into going to a revamped World Cup, if it happens.

 

[Macman]

Canada and Luxemburg both lack available venues to make viable bids. That's too bad, but that's nobody else's fault.

It not Canada's or Luxembourg's fault either.