Kevyn Adams GM thread

[TehDoak]

You sure about that?

You seem pretty sure here that pragmatism has led you to think the GM isn't even a GM, by however you define them.

It's not a slight on Adams, it's an observation. Post Eichel trade, He's treated the team like something he's there to watch over rather than something he is there to improve. The original post i was responding to stated that he couldn't imagine why people would be frustrated with Adams, I listed the reasons. By all accounts, it's been a conscience decision by him to do so. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term and it was what was best for the team. However, you can see how that approach would elicit frustration, especially when there are obvious, immediate teams that remain unaddressed, especially when there are no resource restraints such as cap space or lack of draft capital preventing the team from improving via outside additions.

 

[Zach716]

From a pure pragmatist point of view:

Adams took over a 25th place team

This year we were a 20th place team.

In between we finished 31st and 24th.

The prospect pool is deeper than when he took over, specifically at forward.

Nearly all of the current core contributors are carry overs that were added from the last regime.

His biggest addition was Tuch, which he acquired for his biggest trade chip in Eichel.

We can talk 'culture' and be positive that a good portion of the roster has a lot of upside to it.

The 'developmental' approach to the team has brought out career years in several players this year.

However, It is also safe to say there are a number of red flags during Adams tenure that are concerning

The impressive depth of the forward prospect pipeline has come at the cost of a shallow, practically non existent defense pipeline.​

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The inability to address the goaltending in a significant away despite it being a red flag need from day 1 of his hiring​

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Inability to address/fix the PK despite finishing 25th, 23rd, and 27th during his tenure.​

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In the past two seasons, the team has refused to utilize cap space to either improve the team or acquire assets.​

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Overall, I think the more appropriate term for Adams tenure is 'steward' rather than a GM, specifically post Krueger. He moved on from three previous 'core' pieces in Reinhart/Ristolainen and Eichel. Since then, his work has been primarily to maintain a budget and, essentially, hold the course, giving room for young players to develop. The real question is, will he be able to take the raw volume of pieces he's assembled and architect it into a contender. That is the largely unknown part of all of this and the biggest cause for concern long term.

This year we were 1 win away from playoffs and overperformed on the basis of what was expected before the season began.

We have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league, and the only reason I say ‘one of’ and not ‘the’ is because our young guys have been fantastic and graduated.

He went to the cleaners on the Eichel trade.

The defense can easily be in solid shape by next season, which we will see how that pans out. Dahlin, Power and Sammy are a great top-3. I believe Joki needs to be replaced and we have plenty of assets/space to make it happen. Stillman has exceeded expectations and Boosh has been solid excluding some periods where he was injured. We’ll have next year to evaluate if we want to resign.

Levi looks like he’ll be staying, and I agree we should look for an upgrade from Comrie.

Agree whoever is running the PK should get nuked.

With the assets he has and confirmation this season that things are moving in a great direction, he has a relatively easy offseason to address Joki, Comrie, and the PK coach.

Let’s see how he does, but I don’t think complaints are warranted until he has a chance to correct.

 

[Gabrielor]

It's not a slight on Adams, it's an observation. Post Eichel trade, He's treated the team like something he's there to watch over rather than something he is there to improve. The original post i was responding to stated that he couldn't imagine why people would be frustrated with Adams, I listed the reasons. By all accounts, it's been a conscience decision by him to do so. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term and it was what was best for the team. However, you can see how that approach would elicit frustration, especially when there are obvious, immediate teams that remain unaddressed, especially when there are no resource restraints such as cap space or lack of draft capital preventing the team from improving.

Sure, Adams has missed chances with cap the last 2 years, no doubt, and that was frustrating.

I just don't agree with your assessment that he's 'a watcher'.

Murray blew up the pipeline before he had a core. It was indeed a plan, but it was doomed from the start.

Botterill never had a good core, or a notion of how to build one.

Adams went with the 'I want my core first, then I'll figure it out the rest' approach. If one didn't emerge, he would've had to do something about it; but one did. Now he has a different something to do. Build around it.

 

[Chainshot]

It's not a slight on Adams, it's an observation. Post Eichel trade, He's treated the team like something he's there to watch over rather than something he is there to improve. The original post i was responding to stated that he couldn't imagine why people would be frustrated with Adams, I listed the reasons. By all accounts, it's been a conscience decision by him to do so. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term and it was what was best for the team. However, you can see how that approach would elicit frustration, especially when there are obvious, immediate teams that remain unaddressed, especially when there are no resource restraints such as cap space or lack of draft capital preventing the team from improving.

I'm not sure you noticed, but they did go from a 54 point pace to a 75 point pace to a 91 point pace over the three years since he has been on the job.

 

[TehDoak]

I'm not sure you noticed, but they did go from a 54 point pace to a 75 point pace to a 91 point pace over the three years since he has been on the job.

The intention of my original thought was 'improving the roster via outside additions'.

 

[Chainshot]

The intention of my original thought was 'improving the roster via outside additions'.

Other than the Eichel trade getting them Tuch and Krebs right?

 

[TehDoak]

Other than the Eichel trade getting them Tuch and Krebs right?

My post you responded to:

It's not a slight on Adams, it's an observation. Post Eichel trade, He's treated the team like something he's there to watch over rather than something he is there to improve.

 

[Chainshot]

My post you responded to:

You've drawn this line previously.

 

[joshjull]

Sure, Adams has missed chances with cap the last 2 years, no doubt, and that was frustrating.

I just don't agree with your assessment that he's 'a watcher'.

Murray blew up the pipeline before he had a core. It was indeed a plan, but it was doomed from the start.

Botterill never had a good core, or a notion of how to build one.

Adams went with the 'I want my core first, then I'll figure it out the rest' approach. If one didn't emerge, he would've had to do something about it; but one did. Now he has a different something to do. Build around it.

I’ve always been curious about this complaint. Not specifically from yourself but in general when its been brought up by anyone. It always seemed to me like most of these complaints were operating in a vacuum. One that ignored management’s approach to the last two seasons.

For example, some complained that they didn’t “leverage” their cap space to get paid assets by other teams to take on roster players (cap dumps). But they were never going to add vet roster options that took up spots they wanted the youngsters in. They only wanted vets who could fill in if needed but were easily moved out the way. It’s why they added the Butchers/Hinos of the world and not someone like Ghost.

I know some wanted them to use the cap space as a 3rd party to help facilitate trades. They didn’t do that. Though they were reportedly involved in a trade like that last deadline that fell apart. The other teams couldn’t close the deal. I get wishing that happen more. But these types of deals weren’t that common league wide.

The last two seasons were about rebuilding from within after moving out key pieces of the previous core. That involved a heavy focus on the development and growth of young players as well as figuring out who fit where or if they fit at all. The only way they were looking to add key pieces via trade is if they fit a specific criteria (same age as core with term)

The end result of that approach at the NHL level is; (1)a pretty good new core group (as you already noted)thats still growing and (2) the bulk of a competitive roster that also has more potential in them. Now we need the finishing touches to be done. We go into that phase with a ton of cap space and a ton of assets.

Which brings me back to why I am curious about the “lack of cap use“ complaints. I get the sense from some of the complaints over the last couple years that grave mistakes were made. Or at the very least opportunities were missed that will not be there again.

But I’m genuinely curious what posters feel they should have done that actually fits in with their focus for the last two seasons and puts them in a better position moving forward than they currently are.

 

[Gabrielor]

Stuff (I’m on my phone, so I’m just making it readable)

I don’t know the who’s/why’s, and Im not particularly interested in taking 30 minutes to build up a list of guys that you’d ultimately just make a shooting gallery.

The point of “don’t block the youth” gets overdone, because it shouldn’t be applied to all of the youth. They shouldn’t have cared about blocking Bryson or giving Joker less minutes. They’ve even shown willingness to bench guys not performing (Olofsson, Quinn/peterka). They surely could’ve added short term depth, especially on defense, and never did.

They also cheated their way to cap floor, twice.

That’s what I’m talking about when I bemoan wasted opportunity. “But who would they target?” Don’t know, but I definitely know there wasn’t no one available.

 

[Ace]

People who believe Adams has made fantastic moves should be the most upset that he doesn’t do more. His goalie and D situation is a travesty. He left the most cap space in the league. Again. Faked it to reach the floor, btw. Imagine if this infallible move maker had made one more obvious move he’s avoided for literal years?

It’s almost as if doing well in your necessary moves when star players won’t stay and building a full roster are two separate conversations. And someone can do well in one…and not nearly enough at the other…at the same time.

 

[toddkaz]

This year we were 1 win away from playoffs and overperformed on the basis of what was expected before the season began.

We have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league, and the only reason I say ‘one of’ and not ‘the’ is because our young guys have been fantastic and graduated.

He went to the cleaners on the Eichel trade.

The defense can easily be in solid shape by next season, which we will see how that pans out. Dahlin, Power and Sammy are a great top-3. I believe Joki needs to be replaced and we have plenty of assets/space to make it happen. Stillman has exceeded expectations and Boosh has been solid excluding some periods where he was injured. We’ll have next year to evaluate if we want to resign.

Levi looks like he’ll be staying, and I agree we should look for an upgrade from Comrie.

Agree whoever is running the PK should get nuked.

With the assets he has and confirmation this season that things are moving in a great direction, he has a relatively easy offseason to address Joki, Comrie, and the PK coach.

Let’s see how he does, but I don’t think complaints are warranted until he has a chance to correct.

3 years and no playoffs and you are handing out kuddos. Can you be my boss?

If we dont make the playoffs next year someone is getting fired. I am saving my kudos for next year.

As an example, leaf fans and Dumas were going crazy in excitement just a week ago and now they are about to be swept. How's those kuddos looking?

 

[HOOats]

3 years and no playoffs and you are handing out kuddos. Can you be my boss?

If we dont make the playoffs next year someone is getting fired. I am saving my kudos for next year.

As an example, leaf fans and Dumas were going crazy in excitement just a week ago and now they are about to be swept. How's those kuddos looking?

Are you really comparing Dubas and the Leafs underachieving for three straight years with Stanley Cup expectations to Adams and the Sabres consistently improving, beating expectations, and on an upward trajectory for three straight years?

Happy to take the bet that neither Adams or Granato get fired if we miss the playoffs (in the best division in hockey), unless we take a significant (10+ point) step back.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Were 1 draft away from stocking up the defense cupboard. Once that happens, we will be icing a competitive team with waves of prospects to pull from the next 5 years at every position.

I think the window of contention is later than people think and It is the reason why we didn’t trade for Chychrun, or Meier, or a number of players that have been moved. It’ll probably take another 3-4 years to hit most of our young players primes, and even longer for the recent draft choices (21’-23’ drafts). While playoffs are definitely the goal next season, I don’t think we will make any big trades or sign any big free agents. It’s going to be more of the same where we try to make small hockey trades or short term free agents.

 

[pigpen65]

Botterill never had a good core, or a notion of how to build one.

So you don't consider Dahlin, Samuelson, Thompson, Skinner, or Cozens to be part of the core going forward then?

 

[joshjull]

I don’t know the who’s/why’s, and Im not particularly interested in taking 30 minutes to build up a list of guys that you’d ultimately just make a shooting gallery.

30mins? Shooting gallery? I think something got lost in translation because the pool of options that fit Adams criteria for acquisition was pretty small. I mean the list of available top four defenseman was pretty much Chychrun. That only took 2 seconds.

The point of “don’t block the youth” gets overdone, because it shouldn’t be applied to all of the youth. They shouldn’t have cared about blocking Bryson or giving Joker less minutes. They’ve even shown willingness to bench guys not performing (Olofsson, Quinn/peterka). They surely could’ve added short term depth, especially on defense, and never did.

They also cheated their way to cap floor, twice.

That’s what I’m talking about when I bemoan wasted opportunity. “But who would they target?” Don’t know, but I definitely know there wasn’t no one available.

You‘re complaining about last season with most of this. That doesn’t answer my question which was in relation to Adams’ big picture/long term team building plans.

His plan is to build towards a team/organization that will have sustained success. To that end we’ve already developed a good core and the bulk of a competitive roster. Both with a lot upside. We also have a ton of cap space and trade assets to further shape the roster. So my question within that context was…..….

What could they have done differently the last two years to leverage cap space and put themselves into an even better situation than they already are? For example, was there a top 4 dman that fit Adams criteria but also required eating a big shitty contract to make it happen? I can’t think of one. But if there was and we passed on the deal due to eating the shitty contract. Then thats an example of a wasted opportunity to capitalize on our cap space in the context of what they're building.

 

[Dirty Dog]

My post you responded to:

You’re right. If you ignore all the development, signings, and trades, Adams is a steward rather than GM

Jesus, the guy has been here for three years and you have time constraints on what can be considered (for no reason: “ignore his three big trades and tell me what big trades he did, I only see small ones”)

 

[toddkaz]

Are you really comparing Dubas and the Leafs underachieving for three straight years with Stanley Cup expectations to Adams and the Sabres consistently improving, beating expectations, and on an upward trajectory for three straight years?

Happy to take the bet that neither Adams or Granato get fired if we miss the playoffs (in the best division in hockey), unless we take a significant (10+ point) step back.

Yes, I am. Do you know why? If Buffalo doesn't make the playoffs next year you have boxed yourself in. Its playoffs or bust next year. It means the sabres underachieve next year. Well, thats not completely true. Sabres can miss the playoffs by 1 point then you can still give Adams his kuddos.

Wasn't this team 1 game under .500 when Adams took over in 2020? and 3 years later we still haven't made the playoffs.

The sabres have missed the playoffs for 12 years in a row and people want to applaud this organization is beyond baffling.

 

[toddkaz]

Are you really comparing Dubas and the Leafs underachieving for three straight years with Stanley Cup expectations to Adams and the Sabres consistently improving, beating expectations, and on an upward trajectory for three straight years?

Happy to take the bet that neither Adams or Granato get fired if we miss the playoffs (in the best division in hockey), unless we take a significant (10+ point) step back.

I noticed you added a qualifier to the bet. So you are saying no one will get fired WAIT! Ok someone will get fired if they miss the playoffs by X amount of points. At least you are starting to see it.

If Buffalo is on a trajectory to miss the playoffs next year lets see how many butts are in the seats. We will see if the Pegs don't mind that.

I am not saying Buffalo will miss the playoffs but its a possibility and this organization will make changes if they do. Adams and Granato are a part of this atrocious record of missing the playoffs. Every time they fire the GM or coach they don't get a redo. Great, the sabres overachieved and missed the playoffs. After 12 years are people really saying this?

Oh my god Adams is awesome! Sure we missed the playoffs for 12 straight years and 25% of that is Adams tenure breaking not only an NHL record but a big 4 sports record but wow he is a good GM! There I am on board.

 

[Fjordy]

I think Adams should have added a top 4 D and a goaltender last season, but ok, last season was a season of development and evaluation and the team was close to the playoffs. This season, he simply must add the top 4 D and probably goalie as his main targets.

 

[Zach716]

3 years and no playoffs and you are handing out kuddos. Can you be my boss?

If we dont make the playoffs next year someone is getting fired. I am saving my kudos for next year.

As an example, leaf fans and Dumas were going crazy in excitement just a week ago and now they are about to be swept. How's those kuddos looking?

Lots of ways to respond to this so I’ll just ask who pissed in your cheerios

 

[Jim Bob]

I think Adams should have added a top 4 D and a goaltender last season, but ok, last season was a season of development and evaluation and the team was close to the playoffs. This season, he simply must add the top 4 D and probably goalie as his main targets.

I doubt that Adams feels that he NEEDS to add a top 4 D and a goalie this off season. He does have 3 goalies & 7 D signed to NHL contracts for next season. I could easily see him running it back in those two areas.

I hope he makes moves in those two spots. I just am not expecting him to based on how he has talked and what deals he has made to date.

 

[HOOats]

Lots of ways to respond to this so I’ll just ask who pissed in your cheerios

Lol. Terry, Housley, Bylsma, Ralph, Cody Hodgson, Jerry D'Amigo, Josh Georges, Andrej Meszaros, Doug Allen, Larry Quinn, Kevin Snow, Conehead... the list goes on and on, I'm sure of it.

I noticed you added a qualifier to the bet. So you are saying no one will get fired WAIT! Ok someone will get fired if they miss the playoffs by X amount of points. At least you are starting to see it.

If Buffalo is on a trajectory to miss the playoffs next year lets see how many butts are in the seats. We will see if the Pegs don't mind that.

I am not saying Buffalo will miss the playoffs but its a possibility and this organization will make changes if they do. Adams and Granato are a part of this atrocious record of missing the playoffs. Every time they fire the GM or coach they don't get a redo. Great, the sabres overachieved and missed the playoffs. After 12 years are people really saying this?

Oh my god Adams is awesome! Sure we missed the playoffs for 12 straight years and 25% of that is Adams tenure breaking not only an NHL record but a big 4 sports record but wow he is a good GM! There I am on board.

People are certainly free to be frustrated with the past decade. I am to a large degree - no playoffs during my partying prime has been very unfortunate . But those are sunk cost frustrations. Imo, it's not healthy or productive to charge people in the present for the sins of those long gone.

Adams took over the organization in the depths of Covid when the team looked closer to folding than ever making the playoffs again. He has restructured the front office to compliment his own strengths and weaknesses, built a respected analytics department from scratch, and turned Rochester into a legitimate development program. He has gotten strong value on every trade and contract he's executed, and his only errors have been errors of omission depending on one's level of patience. He retained Granato, who in 750 days has flipped the most rotten culture in the league into one of the best, righted the trajectories of our cornerstone assets, and established a style of play that is beginning to fill the building again.

No, they shouldn't and won't be dismissed if Toronto, Florida, Boston, and Tampa all continue their deals with the devil and we miss again. Short of a disastrous season, they'll have this year and next to see out their project.

 

[Ace]

I doubt that Adams feels that he NEEDS to add a top 4 D and a goalie this off season. He does have 3 goalies & 7 D signed to NHL contracts for next season. I could easily see him running it back in those two areas.

I hope he makes moves in those two spots. I just am not expecting him to based on how he has talked and what deals he has made to date.

If this is what happens we need to start praying for a new GM

 

[Fjordy]

I doubt that Adams feels that he NEEDS to add a top 4 D and a goalie this off season. He does have 3 goalies & 7 D signed to NHL contracts for next season. I could easily see him running it back in those two areas.

I hope he makes moves in those two spots. I just am not expecting him to based on how he has talked and what deals he has made to date.

Well, that doesn't make sense. Because the season of development and evaluation has passed, and our defense has collapsed and there was no quality depth. We have almost no prospects in defense who are ready to enter the game now, unlike the forwards (Savoie, Kulich). I also thought Adams said after the season that he was going to improve his defense. With goalies, too, not everything is clear. Comrie fell off a cliff, UPL hasn't proven himself reliable, but Adams might give him another chance. Levi is just entering the NHL and it would be nice to find him some kind of mentor who will share games with him for several seasons.