Kevyn Adams GM thread

[TheBarnIsElectric]

I've been critical of Adams unwillingness to spend significant assets to acquire what this team clearly needs, but I also don't think his reasons for being too cautious are absurd. I just think you need to be bold and capitalize on opportunities when they come, not when you're ready.

I am confident he knows what the needs are though, and that is important. I also love so much of what he's done in-house to improve the culture of the team and front office. I like the returns he got for players he needed to trade. I think he has drafted reasonably well, but the jury is very much still out on how good his picks will end up being.

If his moves this summer prove to be insufficient to get the team to the next level, I think he should have to answer some hard questions and face the pressure, but I don't think he needs to be replaced. He's smart enough to figure it out eventually, and replacing him would put us back in a level of uncertainty I don't want to be in again for a long time.

A GM gets fired when they can't perform the duties of the job. It shouldn't be a punishment.

This. I believe he can do the job, even if the team doesn't turn the corner this year. If he makes mistakes, I think he's smart and humble enough to learn from the them, and that's good enough for me.

 

[TehDoak]

I don't really care to summarize Adams because he hasn't gotten the job done yet. Its tough to gauge Adams because if they miss the playoffs next year he could be out of a job. I think this offseason is going to be very big. Basically get the job done or move onto the next guy.

Given the interest the Pegulas have shown in the Sabres the last few seasons, he likely is only going to be fired if he takes a risk that costs a lot cash wise and it doesn't work out. Probably why he's been so risk averse and sets the expectations so low every year.

How many seasons has Yzerman had in Detroit so far? Do you believe he should be fired?

Yzerman inherited 20 seasons of ignoring the prospect pool and dead cap. Adams inherited multiple top 5 picks/top 10 picks. Much different situations.

 

[Fjordy]

Asplund for 7th? Apparently Rasmus had a really bad season, I remember he looked bad at the beginning.

Bloom for Stillman? I didn't really understand this trade, it seems Stillman was terrible in Vancouver and Bloom was a decent prospect. How did Stillman look in Buffalo and what are his perspectives?

 

[LongWayDown37]

Given the interest the Pegulas have shown in the Sabres the last few seasons, he likely is only going to be fired if he takes a risk that costs a lot cash wise and it doesn't work out. Probably why he's been so risk averse and sets the expectations so low every year.

My opinion - this common perspective is a total misread of the situation and what the Pegula's have done in terms of attention and investing resources in the team.

In the past year, they have shown ZERO hesitation in handing out monster contracts to core players with minimal track records - more than $130M worth to 3 players, none of whom were stars before they got their contracts. They also completely rebuilt a front office littered with remnants of Murray and Botterill - two total failures. They went out and got Ventura and Karmanos - while we don't know their salaries, those are absolutely not cheap dates for essentially Adams' assistants. Kreuger was (incredibly) one of hte higher paid coaches in the league and they, as bad as it was, are paying him to not be here.

Moving forward, Adams appears to have set up our cap situation brilliantly to retain our best AND add.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Asplund for 7th? Apparently Rasmus had a really bad season, I remember he looked bad at the beginning.

Bloom for Stillman? I didn't really understand this trade, it seems Stillman was terrible in Vancouver and Bloom was a decent prospect. How did Stillman look in Buffalo and what are his perspectives?

Asplund is the definition of an extra forward so the return is about right for him.

I was apprehensive to the Stillman deal at first but he really impressed me. Other than his bone crushing hits, his breakout passing surprised me and I think he is a decent transitional player in a physical role. Loosing Bloom stung a little but realistically, we have over a dozen forward prospects to develop. Just looking at Rochester next year, he would be behind lots of wingers (Rosen, Kulich, Biro, Nadeau, Weissbach)

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Yzerman inherited 20 seasons of ignoring the prospect pool and dead cap. Adams inherited multiple top 5 picks/top 10 picks. Much different situations.

While I agree to some extent that Adams inherited some better players, you also can't say that several of them like Mittelstadt, Thompson, and Skinner were considered top end when Adams got here. Even in his first season as GM people were calling Mitts and Thompson bust, and Skinner looked like an albatross contract who was never going to recover. He made good use of the assets he inherited and got what appears to be solid value for Eichel, Reinhart and Risto, but he shaped the roster as it stands today which looks far different than 3 seasons ago.

Would Yzerman have been in a similar situation to Adams now had he traded Larkin, or traded Bertuzzi sooner? He also inherited a few prospects with 1st round pedigree in Rasmussen, Veleno and Zadina and others like Berggren and Hronek. Could he have traded more them and been in a better situation? Would a coach like Granato be able to get more out of those inherited prospects?

It's never going to be an apples to apples comparison. The point remains that if someone thinks Adams should be fired if he misses the playoffs after season 4 while ignoring context, then by that same rigid evaluation where only playoffs matter, then so should Yzerman.

 

[Chainshot]

Asplund for 7th? Apparently Rasmus had a really bad season, I remember he looked bad at the beginning.

Bloom for Stillman? I didn't really understand this trade, it seems Stillman was terrible in Vancouver and Bloom was a decent prospect. How did Stillman look in Buffalo and what are his perspectives?

Stillman was surprisingly solid as a third pairing player. He and Lyubushkin were good if we look at things like high danger chances for and against with them as a pair being even. He didn't give them PKing time which I'm curious to see if that continues, but for use, Stillman was actually a nice peripheral pickup.

 

[TehDoak]

My opinion - this common perspective is a total misread of the situation and what the Pegula's have done in terms of attention and investing resources in the team.

In the past year, they have shown ZERO hesitation in handing out monster contracts to core players with minimal track records - more than $130M worth to 3 players, none of whom were stars before they got their contracts.

The Thompson contract was certainly a dice roll, given that it was handed to Thompson after what could have simply been an outlier season. Early returns obviously look good...however, it's a 7 year deal that hasn't technically even started yet. But, it appears getting there early was a good move.

The Samuelsson contract didn't make a lick of sense and still doesn't. It was called by another Gm one of the stupidest contracts in the NHL. It is worrisome that the GM rushed to give out a 7 year deal to a player with less than a full year experience, especially when he didn't really get an under market deal. Took on 7 years of risk for no real reward in terms of savings, unlike with the Thompson deal that likely saved 2M+ a year based on last season.

The Cozens deal was a straight forward market level deal given his production.

They also completely rebuilt a front office littered with remnants of Murray and Botterill - two total failures. They went out and got Ventura and Karmanos - while we don't know their salaries, those are absolutely not cheap dates for essentially Adams' assistants. Kreuger was (incredibly) one of hte higher paid coaches in the league and they, as bad as it was, are paying him to not be here.

Botterill was a bad GM in a lot of ways, but nearly all of the current core are his draft/acquisitions. The purging of the scouting department and rebuild is completely unknown level of success. Power was the biggest no brainer draft pick in recent history. Outside of that only Peterka/Quinn have been under Adams, and that was done based on the scouting of the previous regime (at the time, the scouting department was a skeleton group). So, the idea that this is some great scouting department is a complete unknown. We have had a large volume of picks. Their success won't be determined for years.

I think you are also overstating the demand/cost of Karmanos/Ventura.

Moving forward, Adams appears to have set up our cap situation brilliantly to retain our best AND add.

Time is going to tell. My big fear is that we are seeing Regier 2.0 in terms of inaction and loyalty to "his guys".

 

[Dingo44]

Stillman was surprisingly solid as a third pairing player. He and Lyubushkin were good if we look at things like high danger chances for and against with them as a pair being even. He didn't give them PKing time which I'm curious to see if that continues, but for use, Stillman was actually a nice peripheral pickup.

I'm curious on how much the analytics department had in the Sabres going out and getting Stillman. I'm all for more Moneyball acquisitions.

 

[Zman5778]

Time is going to tell. My big fear is that we are seeing Regier 2.0 in terms of inaction and loyalty to "his guys".

You comape him to Darcy like it's a bad thing. Darcy was a fantastic GM for us for a long time, under some really trying times.

If Adams' tenure is as successful as Darcys, we'll all be quite happy.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm curious on how much the analytics department had in the Sabres going out and getting Stillman. I'm all for more Moneyball acquisitions.

At the time, they did say he fit their models based on the Florida play rather than Vancouver. I took that to mean things they had looked at from data.

 

[Ace]

If only he would apply his ability to find low cost third pairing D into spending what it takes to acquire a top 4 thus making everyone, and the team as a whole, that much better.

 

[JLewyB]

He talked about still being youngest on average next year and to me, he seemed so confident saying it that i think he was accidentally implying that KO wont be resigned possibly Girgs too. He hesitated for a moment and made a joke that Anderson retiring will do that all by itself. But my conspiracy ear heard it as KO isn’t coming back as a player at least.

 

[HOOats]

I was apprehensive to the Stillman deal at first but he really impressed me. Other than his bone crushing hits, his breakout passing surprised me and I think he is a decent transitional player in a physical role. Loosing Bloom stung a little but realistically, we have over a dozen forward prospects to develop. Just looking at Rochester next year, he would be behind lots of wingers (Rosen, Kulich, Biro, Nadeau, Weissbach)

While a small scale example, this is what has me confident in Adams' willingness/ability to make needed moves in the years to come. We traded an asset from an area of strength when that asset may eventually prove to have been at the height of its value. It seems like our front office (likely our young but very well-regarded analytics dept) identified Stillman as someone conversely at a value low point whose struggles could be addressed by a change in system, coaching, culture fit, etc.

The team was exceeding expectations, so Adams spent a future chip to buy a pro piece. We'll likely see more trades of this nature to balance, shape, and pare down the roster/pool, at a more significant scale, and I expect as soon as this summer.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

He talked about still being youngest on average next year and to me, he seemed so confident saying it that i think he was accidentally implying that KO wont be resigned possibly Girgs too. He hesitated for a moment and made a joke that Anderson retiring will do that all by itself. But my conspiracy ear heard it as KO isn’t coming back as a player at least.

Don't forget Hino is probably gone (He's 29) and possibly any or all of Olofsson (28 when the season begins), Comrie (28 when the season begins), and Jost (25). If any of those guys get replaced in house it would be by someone like a Rousek who is younger than all of them.

They could still keep Gus and Okie and be younger just through those other players who could be gone as well.

 

[TehDoak]

You comape him to Darcy like it's a bad thing. Darcy was a fantastic GM for us for a long time, under some really trying times.

If Adams' tenure is as successful as Darcys, we'll all be quite happy.

I'll give Darcy some leeway because he went through the bankruptcy days and under Golisano he was under the budgetary restrictions....but post 7/1/07 he was a bad GM. he had a core of young talent that he rarely added to, never addressed obvious needs (such as center depth) because he believed in 'his guys', and became so enamored by his own roster other GMs refused to even talk to him about trades because he was speaking "another language". The only reason that team made the playoffs was because Miller had two Veznia worthy seasons (winning it once). And even when the budgetary restrictions were lifted under Pegula, Regier promptly flew the plane right into the mountain and into a full rebuild.

When you hear Adams speak, it's very Darcy-esque. Says a lot without saying anything. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a curtain in Adams office that he got upset if you got near that a bespeckled, aged Regier was sitting, whispering into Adams ear about trusting the process.

 

[Zach716]

It sort of blows my mind how some can look at the team situation Adams entered into and now currently and not be happy. I think some here will just simply always have complaints about the GM, even if they were Terry himself and had their own pick of the crop.

He’s been fantastic and we are set up long term to have many dice rolls for a cup.

 

[MeenOlViks]

I'll give Darcy some leeway because he went through the bankruptcy days and under Golisano he was under the budgetary restrictions....but post 7/1/07 he was a bad GM. he had a core of young talent that he rarely added to, never addressed obvious needs (such as center depth) because he believed in 'his guys', and became so enamored by his own roster other GMs refused to even talk to him about trades because he was speaking "another language". The only reason that team made the playoffs was because Miller had two Veznia worthy seasons (winning it once). And even when the budgetary restrictions were lifted under Pegula, Regier promptly flew the plane right into the mountain and into a full rebuild.

When you hear Adams speak, it's very Darcy-esque. Says a lot without saying anything. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a curtain in Adams office that he got upset if you got near that a bespeckled, aged Regier was sitting, whispering into Adams ear about trusting the process.

Post 7/1/07 - I wonder how much influence came from his superiors. We know Terry meddled quite a bit in the early days of his ownership

 

[Zman5778]

Post 7/1/07 - I wonder how much influence came from his superiors. We know Terry meddled quite a bit in the early days of his ownership

Post 7/1/07 and up until TG sold the team.....the edict was to break even financially. That's plenty of influence.

 

[Dingo44]

It sort of blows my mind how some can look at the team situation Adams entered into and now currently and not be happy. I think some here will just simply always have complaints about the GM, even if they were Terry himself and had their own pick of the crop.

He’s been fantastic and we are set up long term to have many dice rolls for a cup.

On the day after the Boston Red Sox won the World Series in 2011, a Red Sox fan called the local sports station to complain about John Farrell's managerial decisions in the series clincher. There is no limit on how miserable some sports 'fans" will be in the face of optimism.

I think about that fan often reading certain posts on this board.

Sox fan called WEEI the day after World Series win...to complain about John Farrell

Sam Galanis Contributing Writer It’s no secret that Red Sox fans are miserable people. They endured 86 long years of legitimately believi...

www.redsoxlife.com

 

[TehDoak]

It sort of blows my mind how some can look at the team situation Adams entered into and now currently and not be happy. I think some here will just simply always have complaints about the GM, even if they were Terry himself and had their own pick of the crop.

He’s been fantastic and we are set up long term to have many dice rolls for a cup.

From a pure pragmatist point of view:

Adams took over a 25th place team

This year we were a 20th place team.

In between we finished 31st and 24th.

The prospect pool is deeper than when he took over, specifically at forward.

Nearly all of the current core contributors are carry overs that were added from the last regime.

His biggest addition was Tuch, which he acquired for his biggest trade chip in Eichel.

We can talk 'culture' and be positive that a good portion of the roster has a lot of upside to it.

The 'developmental' approach to the team has brought out career years in several players this year.

However, It is also safe to say there are a number of red flags during Adams tenure that are concerning

The impressive depth of the forward prospect pipeline has come at the cost of a shallow, practically non existent defense pipeline.​

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The inability to address the goaltending in a significant away despite it being a red flag need from day 1 of his hiring​

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Inability to address/fix the PK despite finishing 25th, 23rd, and 27th during his tenure.​

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In the past two seasons, the team has refused to utilize cap space to either improve the team or acquire assets.​

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Overall, I think the more appropriate term for Adams tenure is 'steward' rather than a GM, specifically post Krueger. He moved on from three previous 'core' pieces in Reinhart/Ristolainen and Eichel. Since then, his work has been primarily to maintain a budget and, essentially, hold the course, giving room for young players to develop. The real question is, will he be able to take the raw volume of pieces he's assembled and architect it into a contender. That is the largely unknown part of all of this and the biggest cause for concern long term.

 

[Gabrielor]

From a pure pragmatist point of view:

Nearly all of the current core contributors are carry overs that were added from the last regime.

Don't say 'From a pure pragmatist point of view', then peddle this line without context. Thompson, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Cozens have all had their best seasons under Granato, and only Dahlin had shown anything prior.

 

[LongWayDown37]

The Thompson contract was certainly a dice roll, given that it was handed to Thompson after what could have simply been an outlier season. Early returns obviously look good...however, it's a 7 year deal that hasn't technically even started yet. But, it appears getting there early was a good move.

The Samuelsson contract didn't make a lick of sense and still doesn't. It was called by another Gm one of the stupidest contracts in the NHL. It is worrisome that the GM rushed to give out a 7 year deal to a player with less than a full year experience, especially when he didn't really get an under market deal. Took on 7 years of risk for no real reward in terms of savings, unlike with the Thompson deal that likely saved 2M+ a year based on last season.

The Cozens deal was a straight forward market level deal given his production.




Botterill was a bad GM in a lot of ways, but nearly all of the current core are his draft/acquisitions. The purging of the scouting department and rebuild is completely unknown level of success. Power was the biggest no brainer draft pick in recent history. Outside of that only Peterka/Quinn have been under Adams, and that was done based on the scouting of the previous regime (at the time, the scouting department was a skeleton group). So, the idea that this is some great scouting department is a complete unknown. We have had a large volume of picks. Their success won't be determined for years.

I think you are also overstating the demand/cost of Karmanos/Ventura.




Time is going to tell. My big fear is that we are seeing Regier 2.0 in terms of inaction and loyalty to "his guys".

OK. Honestly, I don't care much about what your opinions are on the job Adams has done, that wasn't really my point. Your suggestion that the Pegula's are somehow less interested in the Sabres and that large cash outlays will be a problem is, in my opinion, wrong. And I think the moves made (whether you agree with them or not) illustrate that you are off base.

 

[TehDoak]

Don't say 'From a pure pragmatist point of view', then peddle this line without context. Thompson, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Cozens have all had their best seasons under Granato, and only Dahlin had shown anything prior.

The 'developmental' approach to the team has brought out career years in several players this year.

You're looking for offense where there is none.

 

[Gabrielor]

You're looking for offense where there is none.

The 'developmental' approach to the team has brought out career years in several players this year.

However, It is also safe to say there are a number of red flags during Adams tenure that are concerning

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Overall, I think the more appropriate term for Adams tenure is 'steward' rather than a GM,

You sure about that?

You seem pretty sure here that pragmatism has led you to think the GM isn't even a GM, by however you define them.