Player Discussion Kevin Hayes - Part II

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't know, this just doesn't make any sense at all. You're holding it against him for have a hot streak. Yea every player have anomalies in their career but yet nobody talks about them, so why is it a big deal for Hayes? An real anomaly would be calling Jeff Toms an elite goal scorer after he scored a hat trick for us that one game. Not a player like Hayes who always had the talent and this season is putting it all together more consistently.

Whether or not you agree with it or not, Graves and Cheecho were 50 goal scorers in their career at one point, that is just a fact, whether it was a fluke or not.

I think the problem is that you picked the last 82 games and ignored the rest of his career.

 

[will1066]

They work hand in hand. Neither is good enough to carry a line by himself.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Putting Hayes with Kreider is brilliant. Helping to boost his point production will get a better return, right? Therefore brilliant. Not to say Hayes isnt a big part of Kreids success. Works hand in hand, right?

Yes I agree...but people dumping on Mika and praising Hayes while ignoring each of their linemates isnt an accurate view of each player. Hayes looked pretty average last night without Kreider.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

They work hand in hand. Neither is good enough to carry a line by himself.

Mika is...he just needs someone better than Vesey or Fast with him. Only McDavid and Crosby can totally carry a line on their own imo.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Could easily add in 20+assists, had his teammates known what to do with the puck after he dishes them a slam dunk. Here is a few of my ideas.

#1. Catch the pass
#2. Lift the puck?
#3. Don't miss the net.

Or if he shot it instead of holding onto it until he ran out of room.

 

[will1066]

Mika is...he just needs someone better than Vesey or Fast with him. Only McDavid and Crosby can totally carry a line on their own imo.

Yes, very few can. Im seeing it from the view that someone is at a level that can elevate his two linemates. Based on that, Mika should be able to elevate to your choices of Vesey and Fast. Out of Mika, Hayes, and Kreider, maybe Mika can. I dont know yet.

Mika is probably the most multidimensional out of the three. He can shoot, he can playmake. Hayes is primarily a playmaker who thinks pass first. Kreider has great straight line speed and his shot is now arguably elite but he doesn't stick handle and he's not going to deke someone out of his skates to create something out of nothing

 

[Larrybiv]

They're not trading that pick until draft day. There's no way they risk giving that up before the lottery and watching some other team snag Hughes with it.

You know, Colorado has like 10 mil. cap space. Easily could afford Kevin. Undoubtedly they will offer us "their" 1st, which will be significantly lower than Ottawa's.
Im guessing that if this deal with Colorado ever comes to fruition, there will be provisions included. Something like:
If we (meaning Colorado) trade Ottawa's 1st and it becomes a "lottery pick then we trade our 1st for Rangers 1st, providing the Rangers 1st isnt a lottery pick.

So.......Hayes and Rangers 1st
For
Colorado and Ottawa's 1st (lottery?) and Prospect

Am I crazy or is this a possibility? Or, do we simply demand Ottawa's 1st from Colorado or no deal.
Then send him elsewhere, knowing we will drop like a rock with tough schedule and no Kevin.

 

[Larrybiv]

Or if he shot it instead of holding onto it until he ran out of room.

I dont think Kevin has a selfish bone in his body, and i truly believe that being selfish scores you many more goals. I think he enjoys dishing out goals, as it makes him super popular with the goal scorers. (Teammates) Problem is......he NEEDS them to score and not do my 3 suggestions. Lol.

 

[Larrybiv]

Yes, very few can. Im seeing it from the view that someone is at a level that can elevate his two linemates. Based on that, Mika should be able to elevate to your choices of Vesey and Fast. Out of Mika, Hayes, and Kreider, maybe Mika can. I dont know yet.

Mika is probably the most multidimensional out of the three. He can shoot, he can playmake. Hayes is primarily a playmaker who thinks pass first. Kreider has great straight line speed and his shot is now arguably elite but he doesn't stick handle and he's not going to deke someone out of his skates to create something out of nothing

But yet it seems whomever plays alongside Kreids is benefitting. Hayes seems to "create" much more than Mika, maybe i am wrong.

 

[will1066]

But yet it seems whomever plays alongside Kreids is benefitting. Hayes seems to "create" much more than Mika, maybe i am wrong.

Kreider drives play. The metrics folks here have shown that. Does he put his line on his back? I dont know.

Hayes and Kreider's stat lines are practically mirror images. One is a playmaker and one is a sniper. Mika's line is similar to Hayes'.

Hayes' playmaking is more noticeable because he carries the puck, skates with it and waits for something to develop, and his passes are flashier.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think the problem is that you picked the last 82 games and ignored the rest of his career.

Because he is better now than he was when he was a rookie? why would we compare previous years?

 

[Ghost of jas]

But yet it seems whomever plays alongside Kreids is benefitting. Hayes seems to "create" much more than Mika, maybe i am wrong.

Part of the reason is that Kreider by far and away is the best winger the Rangers have right now. So whichever center has him on their line is going to be more productive.

 

[Larrybiv]

Re-watching now. If I am that Rangers fan in the Nashville stands, when Preds entering runway after 2nd period.......I would have been cussing and telling Rinaldo what a lowlife he is. (Then again, he already knows that) That was such a cheap shot on Zbad. Didnt get a penalty, but i bet he gets a couple suspended.......hes not exactly a 1st time offender. Maybe he wanted a few games off. Lowlife.

 

[Trxjw]

You know, Colorado has like 10 mil. cap space. Easily could afford Kevin. Undoubtedly they will offer us "their" 1st, which will be significantly lower than Ottawa's.
Im guessing that if this deal with Colorado ever comes to fruition, there will be provisions included. Something like:
If we (meaning Colorado) trade Ottawa's 1st and it becomes a "lottery pick then we trade our 1st for Rangers 1st, providing the Rangers 1st isnt a lottery pick.

So.......Hayes and Rangers 1st
For
Colorado and Ottawa's 1st (lottery?) and Prospect

Am I crazy or is this a possibility? Or, do we simply demand Ottawa's 1st from Colorado or no deal.
Then send him elsewhere, knowing we will drop like a rock with tough schedule and no Kevin.

Honestly I think it's best just to assume the Ottawa pick isn't on the table under any circumstance in a Hayes trade. Ottawa is already 2nd to last in the NHL and they just lost Chabot for an extended period. Colorado isn't going to give up a shot at Hughes for Hayes and I think putting any conditions in to get that pick if it's not top-5 or something is just too complicated.

If you want the Ottawa pick it's going to be a deal for Zibanejad and it'll happen after the lottery.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest anybody hold their breath for the Ottawa pick. Even with Sakic's cautious approach aside, Dorion/Melnyk are the only management duo in the league dumb enough to make that trade. If we get that pick, it will be post-lottery.

 

[Leetch3]

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest anybody hold their breath for the Ottawa pick. Even with Sakic's cautious approach aside, Dorion/Melnyk are the only management duo in the league dumb enough to make that trade. If we get that pick, it will be post-lottery.

or at the very least it would be lottery protected

 

[Larrybiv]

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest anybody hold their breath for the Ottawa pick. Even with Sakic's cautious approach aside, Dorion/Melnyk are the only management duo in the league dumb enough to make that trade. If we get that pick, it will be post-lottery.

Then i guess it begs the question why a team would trade their future 1st when they know they will be a bad team in the near future. Perhaps they didnt think that? Lol.

 

[mulli25]

Players get hot, players get cold

Hayes may have had an epiphany and is now a full blown ppg center, sure. The more logical explanation, however, is that he's riding a hot streak and will regress back to numbers that represent a modest increase over his career average.

I could be on board with keeping him, I just don't see how the rangers get the pieces they need to get better while holding on to all three of Hayes, Kreider, and Zib. Of the three, I think Hayes will provide the worst contract/performance ratio down the road, and that's why I think they should move him.

 

[Larrybiv]

Hayes 9 game pt. streak, 16 pts. needs 1 more game to make it a nice round number of games.......10
Thats nearly 1/8 of the season. So, what exactly constitutes a hot streak? The next 10 games, might give us a better answer to this and what might be the "new" Kevin,
With the juggling of Kreider and now Fast has become a temp top 6.......so things are changing. If Kevin can continue his hot play with no Kreids, well that will say tons.
Im in the camp that Kevin has had that "epiphany", and there is NO DOUBT that when ypu play with good players, ypur numbers will increase. Wasnt too long ago, where Kevin was on 3rd line with lesser players and nary a PP minute.
So, how could anyone expect a ppg? He was able to get 45-50 despite all this.......so, i guess we will see.

 

[Inferno]

Part of the reason is that Kreider by far and away is the best winger the Rangers have right now. So whichever center has him on their line is going to be more productive.

It's the same reason I never really bought stepan being a true #1 center based on his stats and advanced stats...he was always stapled to kreider...and kreider makes everyone better.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It's the same reason I never really bought stepan being a true #1 center based on his stats and advanced stats...he was always stapled to kreider...and kreider makes everyone better.

Which is also why I really need an amazing overpayment to move Kreider. Again, Kreider is the type of player that would be a huge benefit to whichever center the Rangers take in the upcoming draft.

 

[Matz03]

Until Ottawa’s first is determined and lottery drawn, that pick will not be moved. Would anyone here move a 1st overall for a rental Hayes? Colorado will be happy to pick 1-5 then have Hayes. If it’s 6 or down and Hayes is signed, then they’d maybe move it at th draft. They are not that desperate to make a run now to leave high end talent on the table at the draft.

 

[East Coast Bias]

He's averaging 2+ more mins a game TOI this season over his previous career high.

He has 7 PP points in 85 mins this year, had 8 pts in 85 mins last season on the PP (ALL of last season).

He's producing because he's in a much bigger role.

He may sign somewhere and go back to getting the minutes he got the last 2 years rather than this year, and his stats will probably reflect that. And people are gonna say "See, we dodged a bullet - he was just playing hard in a contract year" and they will be wrong.

 

[True Blue]

If Colorado is willing to part with Ottawa’s first would you trade him?

I would drive him there personally.

 

[True Blue]

I think Staal can be moved at this point without retaining.

What team is going to want to trade for a third pairing defenseman making $6m per year? That Staal has been the most consistent defenseman is more of an indictment of the level of play of the overall defense here. He has raised his level of play. And probably would be a decent addition as a third pairing defenseman on a contender. But not at $6m per year. $2, sure. So the Rangers would need to eat two thirds of the remaining contract.