Player Discussion Kevin Hayes - Part II

[FIRE DRURY]

These guys are barely adults honestly.

So, they're basically like us? But a lot richer.

 

[eco's bones]

Hayes the type of guy that can't ramp it up in playoffs or when the heat gets turned up . Look at last night against BJ's...they turned it up a notch in the 3rd and Hayes got mesmerized or over whelmed and cost us a game . He is an OK regular season type guy ....but not one about to lead you further . It's DNA...you cannot change it . Hayes is what he is and likely will peak this season . Move him for what you can if it improves our roster down the road .

Really? I think Zibanejad and whoever are his linemates are more among the missing now. Hayes has put up a lot of multiple point nights in the last 7/8 games. That's a good tear. His has been the only dependable scoring line over that period. If the Rangers had more than one line producing that would make a big difference. And just talking about last night--it wasn't Henrik's best game ever either.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Said for months Hayes needs to be resigned. He's clearly a better center than Zibanejad who is ridiculously inconsistent.

You've said a lot of things for months and months

When there was a thread earlier this year asking who will lead the Rangers in Scoring, you selected the inconsistent Zibby over Hayes.

When someone created a proposal about Zibby's value, you responded with:

It's not worth discussing because he isn't being traded. He's going to be their top center for a long time.

You also were pushing a Hayes + Staal @ 50% for pending UFA Panarin.

Dude you're all over the place.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

It doesnt have to be a contract year thing...

The point of saying its his contract year is to put it in context. Don't pay thinking this year is the new norm.

I dont want to pay him a ton then have him regress. His value is at an all time high. It looks like its time to sell

Lol what? It doesn't have to be a contract year thing but you're worrying about a 27 (for the sake of you ageists out there and to be fair we're talking about his next season production) year old player regressing?

The proof at hand is that Kevin Hayes entered the league and has steadily improved his production and performance. He's been thrown numerous assignments and tasks and goals and surpassed them all. Where does anyone here derive this notion that he is going to become this huge piece of crap and sit on a pile of money and give up? There's literally been not a single piece of evidence to support this yet plenty of evidence he's more than likely a 65 point elite two way center. By seasons end (lets say he puts up 75 points after continuing this tear and maintaining) we may be talking about a 70+ point elite two way center.

Cmon guys.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

So, they're basically like us? But a lot richer.

being that rich removes a lot of adversity that mentally matures people.

 

[Kendo]

Lol what? It doesn't have to be a contract year thing but you're worrying about a 27 (for the sake of you ageists out there and to be fair we're talking about his next season production) year old player regressing?

The proof at hand is that Kevin Hayes entered the league and has steadily improved his production and performance. He's been thrown numerous assignments and tasks and goals and surpassed them all. Where does anyone here derive this notion that he is going to become this huge piece of crap and sit on a pile of money and give up? There's literally been not a single piece of evidence to support this yet plenty of evidence he's more than likely a 65 point elite two way center. By seasons end (lets say he puts up 75 points after continuing this tear and maintaining) we may be talking about a 70+ point elite two way center.

Cmon guys.

He's never broken 50 points. "More than likely a 65 point elite two way center," is a small leap.

I like him. I really do. And if we weren't paying 2.5 defensemen (counting the Girardi buyout) "core player" money, then there would be a contract slot for him. The thing is, ELC players often post 50 points. He's a good player, seems like a good dude, but is a bit of a luxury.

 

[leetch99]

Really? I think Zibanejad and whoever are his linemates are more among the missing now. Hayes has put up a lot of multiple point nights in the last 7/8 games. That's a good tear. His has been the only dependable scoring line over that period. If the Rangers had more than one line producing that would make a big difference. And just talking about last night--it wasn't Henrik's best game ever either.

Yup Henrik did suck last night ...I agree . That's another rant LOL...right now I just want Hayes gone ...and if CK and Mika went too...would not bother me one bit for the right return of talented guys that could play with an edge . I have watched this for 45 years . Rinse and repeat .

 

[Chaels Arms]

being that rich removes a lot of adversity that mentally matures people.

I'm sure becoming an elite athlete in the top league in the world was a cakewalk. No mental toughness needed there.

 

[Edge]

I keep going back to something @jas said:

If we want to get what we always seem to have, we can do that without much heartburn. We can resign Hayes, patch holes, and be good enough.

But if we want to try for more than that, this is our opportunity. And that means risk, heartache, painful goodbyes, and rolling the dice.

When we cut through all the bull and over-analyzing, those are your two core directions.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

being that rich removes a lot of adversity that mentally matures people.

They didn't win the lottery. They worked hard to become the best of the best at what they do. I would think that type of dedication mentally matures you.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yup Henrik did suck last night ...I agree . That's another rant LOL...right now I just want Hayes gone ...and if CK and Mika went too...would not bother me one bit for the right return of talented guys that could play with an edge . I have watched this for 45 years . Rinse and repeat .

Fans that think giving up the entire team because the draft picks we get for them will make them a contender give me heartburn.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I keep going back to something @jas said:

If we want to get what we always seem to have, we can do that without much heartburn. We can resign Hayes, patch holes, and be good enough.

But if we want to try for more than that, this is our opportunity. And that means risk, heartache, painful goodbyes, and rolling the dice.

When we cut through all the bull and over-analyzing, those are your two core directions.

The Rangers HAVE to take the risk that they are going to either draft or acquire a better center than Hayes. Otherwise, I'm not sure I see the point of what has gone on the past year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I keep going back to something @jas said:

If we want to get what we always seem to have, we can do that without much heartburn. We can resign Hayes, patch holes, and be good enough.

But if we want to try for more than that, this is our opportunity. And that means risk, heartache, painful goodbyes, and rolling the dice.

When we cut through all the bull and over-analyzing, those are your two core directions.

Haha, I referenced heartburn just coincidentally. Not because you did.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Rangers HAVE to take the risk that they are going to either draft or acquire a better center than Hayes. Otherwise, I'm not sure I see the point of what has gone on the past year.

Who in the bottom of the first round will be a better center than Hayes?

 

[Winston2018]

Who in the bottom of the first round will be a better center than Hayes?

Another Filip?

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

They didn't win the lottery. They worked hard to become the best of the best at what they do. I would think that type of dedication mentally matures you.

It definitely can.

and I'm not saying I'm an expert on his life.

from what is observable through that video, it seems as if the way he is living is similar to that of a teenager. The biggest difference between Kevin Hayes and average 26 year olds is the money he makes.

Its possible that the two are related. Thats all I am saying.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Who in the bottom of the first round will be a better center than Hayes?

Who knows. Players like Pastrnak and Boeser were selected in the 20's. Kuzentsov was a late teen pick in his draft. The Rangers are expecting both Chytil and Miller to become impact players. Again, if the return for Hayes becomes the equivalent of Miller/Howden/Keane, sign me up.

 

[Edge]

Who in the bottom of the first round will be a better center than Hayes?

The short answer is we don’t know.

The longer answer is a combination of the fact that any player taken there doesn’t carry the burden of having to replace Hayes, and the importance of chips to play with over what it is going to be a marathon game of poker.

As an organization, it’s not necessarily a one for one swap, but rather several components — including prospects, picks, signings, depth, potential trades made with said depth, and several other factors.

 

[True Blue]

If we want to get what we always seem to have, we can do that without much heartburn. We can resign Hayes, patch holes, and be good enough.v

But if we want to try for more than that, this is our opportunity. And that means risk, heartache, painful goodbyes, and rolling the dice.

Am with you on course of action and theory. And yes, this is nothing but rolling the dice and taking a lot of risk. And the NTC/NMC are a VERY big con-signing argument. As I have stated, if you do not believe that this is the new normal, there is no question about it.

The question is what if it is the new normal? An elite 2nd line center who plays a two-way game? Those are not easy to find and not quite as easy to say that Andersson or Howden WILL rise to that level. They may get to be legit second line centers, but to be among the best at that position? Maybe. Hopefully. What is a fair return for such a player who is now only reaching his potential at the ripe old age of 26? Is it around a 20ish overall pick and a B level prospect and shedding 5-6 year deal with movement restrictions? What if fair value is impossible to get? Do you then just take the best deal available?

 

[Edge]

Who knows. Players like Pastrnak and Boeser were selected in the 20's. Kuzentsov was a late teen pick in his draft. The Rangers are expecting both Chytil and Miller to become impact players. Again, if the return for Hayes becomes the equivalent of Miller/Howden/Keane, sign me up.

Let us also not forget that the subject of this thread was himself a late first round pick.

 

[romba]

Who in the bottom of the first round will be a better center than Hayes?

Bottom? Just take the two mid-late firsts we get for Hayes and make it a top 10, easy

 

[Ghost of jas]

The short answer is we don’t know.

The longer answer is a combination of the fact that any player taken there doesn’t carry the burden of having to replace Hayes, and the importance of chips to play with over what it is going to be a marathon game of poker.

As an organization, it’s not necessarily a one for one swap, but rather several components — including prospects, picks, signings, depth, potential trades made with said depth, and several other factors.

People seem to overlook that the need for the Rangers to continue to accumulate assets remains.

 

[Edge]

Am with you on course of action and theory. And yes, this is nothing but rolling the dice and taking a lot of risk. And the NTC/NMC are a VERY big con-signing argument. As I have stated, if you do not believe that this is the new normal, there is no question about it.

The question is what if it is the new normal? An elite 2nd line center who plays a two-way game? Those are not easy to find and not quite as easy to say that Andersson or Howden WILL rise to that level. They may get to be legit second line centers, but to be among the best at that position? Maybe. Hopefully. What is a fair return for such a player who is now only reaching his potential at the ripe old age of 26? Is it around a 20ish overall pick and a B level prospect and shedding 5-6 year deal with movement restrictions? What if fair value is impossible to get? Do you then just take the best deal available?

For that I will go back to one of my popular comments:

If this team’s success comes down to not having Kevin Hayes on the roster, then we’re doomed anyway.

And if none of Howden, Andersson or Chytil can replace Kevin Hayes, than that’s just more dirt on top of the casket.

 

[Edge]

People seem to overlook that the need for the Rangers to continue to accumulate assets remains.

Chips for the game. Especially if we want to play at the high-roller table.

 

[True Blue]

He's never broken 50 points. "More than likely a 65 point elite two way center," is a small leap.

He is only 26. And look at this production since December 2017 commenced. What he has been doing for 13 months basically. This cannot be looked as just a hot streak anymore. This has extended far beyond this past year.