Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[Beef Invictus]

Keith Jones is the younger version of Holmgren, Lombardi, etc. His opinions match up, he pines for the Old Ways. Does it matter if the advisors aren’t as heavily involved if they have a successor even more heavily involved?

As for Tortorella having trade and draft input……run for cover. I’ve never once heard of an NHL coach having any say on the draft. Their shelf life is usually too short to even coach these players in 2-4 years, they don’t spend their season watching these players, and they’re too short-term results oriented. This power grab by Tortorella, his sweater vests filling a vacuum, will be taught in history classes.

The guy too lazy to coach and interact with youth doing the draft is like the Flyers are satirizing themselves

 

[CutOnDime97]

Keith Jones is the younger version of Holmgren, Lombardi, etc. His opinions match up, he pines for the Old Ways. Does it matter if the advisors aren’t as heavily involved if they have a successor even more heavily involved?

As for Tortorella having trade and draft input……run for cover. I’ve never once heard of an NHL coach having any say on the draft. Their shelf life is usually too short to even coach these players in 2-4 years, they don’t spend their season watching these players, and they’re too short-term results oriented. This power grab by Tortorella, his sweater vests filling a vacuum, will be taught in history classes.

Good to have the guy who prefers Barkov over McDavid in charge of as much as possible

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

Good to have the guy who prefers Barkov over McDavid in charge of as much as possible

I've seen this many times....where did Torts actually SAY that he'd rather have Barkov over McDavid?

 

[deadhead]

Keith Jones is the younger version of Holmgren, Lombardi, etc. His opinions match up, he pines for the Old Ways. Does it matter if the advisors aren’t as heavily involved if they have a successor even more heavily involved?

As for Tortorella having trade and draft input……run for cover. I’ve never once heard of an NHL coach having any say on the draft. Their shelf life is usually too short to even coach these players in 2-4 years, they don’t spend their season watching these players, and they’re too short-term results oriented. This power grab by Tortorella, his sweater vests filling a vacuum, will be taught in history classes.

Huh? What HC doesn't draft with a philosophy and system in mind - otherwise you're changing your criteria for valuing players every couple years.
Players have raw skill, but their value is partially dependent on how they'll be used.

I think what they mean by "trade and draft input" isn't Torts choosing players to obtain or vetoing trades - it's more about what kind of players he wants, what qualities he values, and so forth. When CBJ traded for Laine, it was obvious he was "dead coach walking," b/c Laine is the anti-Torts player.

It's not like Briere has a diametrically different vision, he's not going to chase "figure skaters," he wasn't one as a player, small and skilled, but also fiesty and not afraid to make a living in the dirty areas. He's not interested in building NJ or Toronto south, maybe Carolina north or Vegas east.

 

[Rebels57]

I've seen this many times....where did Torts actually SAY that he'd rather have Barkov over McDavid?

 

[CutOnDime97]

I've seen this many times....where did Torts actually SAY that he'd rather have Barkov over McDavid?

 

[Curufinwe]

I can't wait for the eventual Torts firing, especially because there will be so much public acrimony.

And yes, I think he will be fired, not promoted. Just like Fletcher was.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

“Deliberate” just means they aren’t going to rush/abandon the rebuild by spending big on a veteran (e.g. Gaudreau) before having a young core that they feel is truly ready to contend.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

Ugh...I'm at work, I'll have to watch this later this evening.

 

[pooch]

Ugh...I'm at work, I'll have to watch this later this evening.

I have been curious about that too. Just watched the clip for the first time.

They count down the top 100 players. They have McDavid #1 and Torts says he's not sure about that because of Barkov's entire game. He says there's more to the game than just scoring. He stops short of saying he has Barkov over McDavid, but hints at it by saying he's not sure McDavid is #1. I think this was a year ago. Wonder what he would say about that today.

 

[deadhead]

Torts engages in hyperbole, that's what makes him colorful.
Me thinks one should take those kind of pronouncements with a bag of salt.
But yes, given similar talent levels, he'd prefer a Barkov type over a McDavid type.

Which is why Torts is gonna cream his pants if Couts is 100%.

 

[Rebels57]

I can't wait for the eventual Torts firing, especially because there will be so much public acrimony.

And yes, I think he will be fired, not promoted. Just like Fletcher was.

We are YEARS from that even being a possibility.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Torts engages in hyperbole, that's what makes him colorful.
Me thinks one should take those kind of pronouncements with a bag of salt.
But yes, given similar talent levels, he'd prefer a Barkov type over a McDavid type.

Which is why Torts is gonna cream his pants if Couts is 100%.

It's kind of odd that Torts says so many things that require disclaimers about what he actually meant.

Maybe you just don't actually understand the man and you have created a fantasy of who he actually is in your head.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Huh? What HC doesn't draft with a philosophy and system in mind - otherwise you're changing your criteria for valuing players every couple years.
Players have raw skill, but their value is partially dependent on how they'll be used.

I think what they mean by "trade and draft input" isn't Torts choosing players to obtain or vetoing trades - it's more about what kind of players he wants, what qualities he values, and so forth. When CBJ traded for Laine, it was obvious he was "dead coach walking," b/c Laine is the anti-Torts player.

It's not like Briere has a diametrically different vision, he's not going to chase "figure skaters," he wasn't one as a player, small and skilled, but also fiesty and not afraid to make a living in the dirty areas. He's not interested in building NJ or Toronto south, maybe Carolina north or Vegas east.

List the head coaches you think are involved in the draft please.

Every time you say "what I think they mean" it means you're ignoring the obvious reality being confirmed by the team itself in favor of some preferred fantasy you've dreamed up. It's kinda why you're always wrong about everything.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have been curious about that too. Just watched the clip for the first time.

They count down the top 100 players. They have McDavid #1 and Torts says he's not sure about that because of Barkov's entire game. He says there's more to the game than just scoring. He stops short of saying he has Barkov over McDavid, but hints at it by saying he's not sure McDavid is #1. I think this was a year ago. Wonder what he would say about that today.

He would say the same thing, probably. Or pick some other non-McDavid two-way guy.

This is the exact kind of reasoning that made Cates our 1C. It's how he thinks. He put that theory into practice all year.

 

[Curufinwe]

We are YEARS from that even being a possibility.

I think it's at least 12 months away, yes.

 

[Rebels57]

I think it's at least 12 months away, yes.

No fewer than 36 months.

 

[freakydallas13]

It's kind of odd that Torts says so many things that require disclaimers about what he actually meant.

Maybe you just don't actually understand the man and you have created a fantasy of who he actually is in your head.

"If you interpret the things Torts says differently from what the words literally mean, Torts isn't a dinosaur coach at all"

Genius deductions going on in this thread, truely.

 

[deadhead]

It's kind of odd that Torts says so many things that require disclaimers about what he actually meant.

Maybe you just don't actually understand the man and you have created a fantasy of who he actually is in your head.

Maybe it's obvious he shoots from the hip, but his actual behavior suggests someone a bit more moderate than his public persona?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Maybe it's obvious he shoots from the hip, but his actual behavior suggests someone a bit more moderate than his public persona?

His actual behavior reinforces everything he says, so no. Maybe not.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Torts is a broken record. And a prick, can't leave that out. I can't believe this guy is driving our bus.

 

[freakydallas13]

Maybe it's obvious he shoots from the hip, but his actual behavior suggests someone a bit more moderate than his public persona?

Whatever you say, skip.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

Ugh...I'm at work, I'll have to watch this later this evening.

Ok, I watched the segment and I'm glad I did. There is no way he said he'd rather have Barkov over McDavid...lol. What he said was, as a coach, he wants complete players. Any coach in the league is going to say the same thing. He said over and over that McDavid is phenomenal, but he wishes he played more of a team game. He alluded to McKinnon being the guy he believed was the top player because of the complete game he plays. It's what I've said repeatedly...he has no problem with offensive players as long as they play a team game and are responsible in both ends of the ice. Some of you are realllllllllly twisting what this guy says...lol

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ok, I watched the segment and I'm glad I did. There is no way he said he'd rather have Barkov over McDavid...lol. What he said was, as a coach, he wants complete players. Any coach in the league is going to say the same thing. He said over and over that McDavid is phenomenal, but he wishes he played more of a team game. He alluded to McKinnon being the guy he believed was the top player because of the complete game he plays. It's what I've said repeatedly...he has no problem with offensive players as long as they play a team game and are responsible in both ends of the ice. Some of you are realllllllllly twisting what this guy says...lol

Frost played a team game and was responsible at both ends. So is Mcdavid. Yet he has problems with both.

Ranking anyone ahead of McDavid is idiotic, though. He's the best player since Hasek/Gretzky/Lemieux. A true generational talent. He hates offense, and McDavid does a lot of it so therefore he doesn't like him. There's gonna be 20-30 Barkovs in this decade, at least. Ranking Barkov ahead of a better player for contrived reasons.

There's a reason he doesn't want to add talent, he wants to add 10-12 goal PK specialists.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

Ranking Barkov ahead of a better player for contrived reasons.

At no point did he do this. There’s no point debating anything with you when you’re completely dishonest.