Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM
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FlyerNutter
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I’ll also speculate. That Jones was one of the leaker guys to the STG guys over the last while.
They got in line very quickly. Convenient.
deadhead
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Dan is happy with Briere/Torts. I'm sure he's had long discussions with them about their vision for the rebuild, their plan, how long they expect it to take and so on.
The objection here is simply that some people wanted to hire a President who'd fire Torts, any President.
Columbus Hockey Dad
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I think the objection people have is that they went backwards. They hired the coach, then the GM, then the President. It should be the other way around. The other problem people have is with the coach "having a say." That should never happen. An opinion? Sure. But never a say. All that stated, I remain unsure and am waiting to see what they do this summer.
Beef Invictus
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Well Tortorella is a f***ing idiot, so being able to fire him is important. The president loving Tortorella's vision of hockey indicates this team is damned until at least 2035.
Redpath
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I don't think anyone was reasonably expecting a President to come in and fire Torts right off the bat. Nor should any coach, given their limited shelf life, have serious input into the longterm plan. Especially a coach who wasn't even hired by the GM.
deadhead
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A lot here were hoping for that.
Torts having a "say" is no different than the HC having "input."
When the HC and GM are on the same page, the HC has a lot of influence, when they're not, one is soon gone, and it's usually the HC.
One thing people forget is the kind of player Briere was, an undersized player (5'9 174) with a chip on his shoulder,
A late first rd pick who got jacked around the first 4 seasons of his career, alternating between the AHL and NHL before he won a starting job at 24.
When he joined the Flyers, in 2007, they were coming off a season with the worst record in the NHL. And got the #2 pick, JVR.
Briere, Knubel and Kimmo were the veteran leaders on that team (and I won't be surprised if Briere finds a role for Kimmo).
So he knows about the struggles of young players, what it takes for an undersized player to succeed, and turning around bad teams.
I don't think you can expect him to embrace the "Flyers way," at least the stereotypical version.
Redpath
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There is a difference between Torts (or any coach) having a say in short-term roster decisions such as call-ups, who should make the team, etc, versus a coach having input in setting the foundation of a long-term rebuild.
Sure, of course, the coach and GM should be on the same page. But no coach should have the sort of influence that the organization is giving Torts, especially when that coincides with the PoHO role getting neutered to have minimal influence. It is a backwards hierarchy.
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kudymen
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Who said that? All I've read is people who want a power structure that makes sense. POHO>GM> Coach. Given that, why would anyone expect a President to come in and immediately undermine the authority of the GM by firing the coach? This isn't rocket science, but you know this.
ajgoal
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They should. Which feeds into the bass-ackwardness of the entire process. The GM should hire a coach who he believes can implement his vision. The organization should not hire a GM because he backs the vision the coach has.
Magua
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Tortorella should stop wearing the sweater vest and start dressing like Rasputin.
ajgoal
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Wrapped up and thrown in the river?
Kelmitchell2
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Maybe we will get lucky and kimmo will become head of player development and take over that entire area
Especially when this coach said he doesn't pay attention to prospects or watch any ahl games, I mean, That's just stupid
deadhead
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I don't think it quite worked that way.
It's more Torts was the first to articulate the need for a long-term rebuild, but Briere came to the same conclusion.
The two then seemed to have developed a strategy together and then sold it to Hilferty (maybe before he replaced Scott) with Camillo as the possible intermediary.
I don't think it's rocket science. The team needs to get young and faster. They need more skill.
The ability to make skillful plays in dirty areas and under pressure will be valued more than making skilled plays in clean ice.
Nor is their vision very different from the four teams that made the finals, watching the playoffs, all four teams seem to focus on an aggressive forecheck, D-men aggressively stepping up on offense, a strong back check, the low/high cycle and success at winning board battles. There may be schematic differences, but all four teams are more "grinders" than figure skaters, they have good size, and go to the net.
If I were to make a list of former teammates Briere might use as templates:
Phoenix: Teppo Numminen D, Daymond Langkow F,
Buffalo: Bryan Campbell D, Chris Drury C
Flyers: Kimmo D, Pronger D, Richards C (on ice), Giroux RW
Habs: Andrei Markov D, P.K. Subban D, Thomas Plekanec.
That would be a good question to ask him, what former teammates would he want to clone for the Flyer rebuild?
Beef Invictus
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Every time you "think" the organization didn't act a certain way, it turns out that they did.
Your hard division between "grinder" and "figure skater" as if there isn't a grey area is ridiculous. And your hero Tortorella wants only grinders of the lowest offensive caliber.
Columbus Hockey Dad
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Again, I don't buy it. He wants skilled forwards who also are responsible defensively. There IS a difference between a grinder and a responsible, skilled, forward. Just because he wants them to be responsible does NOT mean it requires they have no skill.
deadhead
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Grinder used as a pejorative term around here means no skill.
To me, it means a forward who goes to the dirty areas and pays the price to score goals, doesn't hang out on the perimeter and cherry pick for breakaways. Will go into corners to retrieve pucks and extend the cycle. And set screens for teammates.
Magua
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I don't believe Tortorella wants an entire team of plugs. That's absurd. But he absolutely wants skill on his terms. Everyone likes Konecny; everyone likes skill players with grinder mentalities because they're a bundle of fun. He just doesn't like much past that narrow-band. He will never live down saying he'd take Barkov -- who's not even the f***ing best player on his own team now -- over McDavid. Everything we know about Torts fits perfectly with that logic, and we saw it in real time with Frost, Sanheim, etc. He doesn't want to work with what he has and adapt......you adapt to him.
I absolutely believe he suppresses offense at 5v5 and PP too. He doesn't know what to do with talent, other than to bitch about it (if you're not in that narrow-band) or let it ride (if you are in that narrow-band).
Beef Invictus
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No, he doesn't. He wants 10 goal PK specialists. That's what he specified he wants added, not skill. His favorite forward last year was Cates, who fits that profile of all-defense-no-offense. The actions match the words. This is the kind of coach he has been for years and years now.
Columbus Hockey Dad
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Take it up with Tortorella, who said this and also took actions in line with those statements. I'm just the messenger. If you find it absurd and ridiculous, your issue is with him.
This is who he's been since he was in NY. There's nothing new here.
Flyerfan4life
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well it wont be long before they start filling the roster with more Cates type players and most likely older versions to boot..
so buckleup
deadhead
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Frost just had a 42 ES point season, that's being "suppressed."
Torts encourages D-men to attack the O-zone, I think the only one suppressing Sanheim is Sanheim.
Offensively Sanheim was at his norm, except secondary assists declined from 0.35 to 0.13 per 60, normalize it and he's scoring 1.00 pp/60 (5x5).
His xGA/60 was 2.78, last season, without Torts, it was 2.71.
It may be like Provorov, Sanheim has just been overrated by fans, and he is what he is, a solid offensive defenseman who'll struggle in the D-zone b/c the league knows you can pressure him. He's a long strider, not that elusive from a stationary start but fast and fluid once he gets going. His high center of gravity makes leverage difficult. A top 4 D-man with the right partner, someone like a younger Braun.
Torts encourages D-men to attack the O-zone, I think the only one suppressing Sanheim is Sanheim.
Offensively Sanheim was at his norm, except secondary assists declined from 0.35 to 0.13 per 60, normalize it and he's scoring 1.00 pp/60 (5x5).
His xGA/60 was 2.78, last season, without Torts, it was 2.71.
It may be like Provorov, Sanheim has just been overrated by fans, and he is what he is, a solid offensive defenseman who'll struggle in the D-zone b/c the league knows you can pressure him. He's a long strider, not that elusive from a stationary start but fast and fluid once he gets going. His high center of gravity makes leverage difficult. A top 4 D-man with the right partner, someone like a younger Braun.
Magua
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An objectively good young player overcame inconsistent scoring usage and all stick/no carrot from a coach who had to be told by multiple front office people to utilize him properly, which he still was reluctant to do. You interpret it differently than the rest of us. I see it as a testament to Frost's resiliency and talent in the face of partiality and stubbornness. He was too good to suppress, but boy, Tortorella tried.
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