Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[Flybynite]

 

[ponder719]

Who's the tribal chief

Roman Reigns.

 

[Danko]

Of the utmost importance here, given the control he's supposed to have, does Danny have the power to fire Torts? Or does he have to run it up and down and in and out and hold a Tribal Council?

Hilferty said in candidates they interviewed they'd ask him if they'd have the say in the general manager and coach positions and he said that's not what they were looking for.

 

[deadhead]

An Alternative Governor for a few years is sure as hell a lot more involved than being "Assistant To The Regional Manager" and working for the Maine Mariners.

Once again, Sakic was learning with a competent front office. Danny Briere learned under an incompetent front office.

It wasn't a competent front office, or they wouldn't have handed Sakic the reins after two years as an "executive advisor."
Alternative governor is just a title that allows him to step in for the Colorado Governor at league meetings. It's nothing.

 

[GKJ]

Blood sucking leaches lol idk why all of the boomers defend them so much


Who's the tribal chief

There is only one Head of the Table.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It wasn't a competent front office, or they wouldn't have handed Sakic the reins after two years as an "executive advisor."
Alternative governor is just a title that allows him to step in for the Colorado Governor at league meetings. It's nothing.

I'm not sure if the first sentence there is said tongue in cheek there or if it's sarcasm or if it's just a new reality.

You have said yourself you have no idea how the Flyers front office works so once again you're going to make the leap to assume that you know how another front office works. I can say that the front office ran by KSE is miles and miles ahead in terms of competency over the Philadelphia Flyers over the last decade.

Look, you don't even think that Sakic (or Zito or numerous others) have done jobs worthy of praise up to this point despite their success despite propping up countless Flyers employees despite their failures so there's no winning this "argument." It's obvious you're biased here.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Was Danny Briere an alternate governor for a couple of years before he was named GM? Danny Briere was the Assistant to the Regional Manager. He was never a Vice President. He had no power. He did nothing.

Joe Sakic's superiors were competent in KSE. Danny Briere's superiors are not competent.

They're not the same.

Not everything this organization does needs to be defended. They should have started with a clean slate. It's more of the same no matter how much you ignore it.

honestly it appears its headed for worse..

they are deg. gunna double down on a 50 yr old irrelevant style of hockey! which puts this club even further away from relevancy by multiple years yet again

 

[Curufinwe]

Of the utmost importance here, given the control he's supposed to have, does Danny have the power to fire Torts? Or does he have to run it up and down and in and out and hold a Tribal Council?

Hilferty said Jones has ultimate hiring and firing power in that awful press conference.

I think the odds of any of them still being here in four years time is very low. Just look at the Berube/Hextall/Hakstol/Fletcher/AV/Yeo era.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Hilferty said in candidates they interviewed they'd ask him if they'd have the say in the general manager and coach positions and he said that's not what they were looking for.

#oldboisclub4life

 

[Beef Invictus]

I criticized plenty of Fletcher's moves, I've defended Hextall's drafting (other than his first round fiascos, can't miss on 3 of 8).

I didn't like the Risto trade, extension or failure to move him at the TDL.
I didn't care about losing Ghost, overrated around here (3rd pair D-man, PP specialist) I cared about paying to get rid of him, market price but wrong move.
I thought TDA was an overpay, but the bigger problem was he didn't make sense, except that Fletcher was boxed in by Scott's "aggressive reload."
I thought Hayes was an overpay, but so were Voracek and JVR, all pre-COVID contracts. All big, soft, offense first forwards, funny choices for a franchise that keeps talking about the "Flyer way," none of these three fit that mold.

On the other hand, given Holmgren's "win now" mandate, the Braun and Niskanen moves rebuilt the defense at low cost
Flahr's drafting so far seems better than Hextall, he seems to have gotten value with 4 of 6 1st and 2nd rd picks, we'll see if Brink pans out.
York is already better than Provorov or Sanheim, Foerster looks like a potential top 6 forward, Gauthier likes fine so far. Andrae looks like a comer.

I just don't go overboard like many here.

And I pinpointed the source of the problem which was Scott and the Advisors and the lack of a coherent strategy.
Hextall started a half hearted rebuild in 2014, never really committed to getting younger after an initial flurry of action.
The result was a mediocre team 5 years later, a mix of a few prospects not ready for prime time and a few veterans at the end of their peak years.

Flyers were a 90 point team that had an outlier seasons in both 2017-18 (overachieved) and 2018-19 (sabotaged by bad goaltending).
A smart FO would have realized that and relaunched the rebuild, instead Holmgren wanted to win now (b/c the Flyers don't rebuild)
The result was a "dead cat bounce" with a new HC and some veteran additions, without addressing the lack of talent in the organization.
Sure enough, they crashed and burned.

You didn't criticize a single thing Fletcher did. Even the things you claimed to criticize, you spent all your time justifying. Holy shit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hilferty was on 32 Thoughts and said they interviewed candidates that wanted to hire their own coach and GM and they said no. Not exactly revelating news, but you can see how they ended up at Keith Jones - a Yes Man.

They are not rebuilding.

 

[Beef Invictus]

P.S. He was hired on a whim because people that have shown that they're incompetent hired him without even looking at a single other person and going as far as claiming that "They knew he was their GM the first time they met."

Your attempt to belittle anything that Sakic did/does while propping up the busy work that Briere did is just so unbelievably disingenuous.

It is impossible to defend this team without lying. Hence all the lying.

 

[Beef Invictus]

the 32 thoughts podcast has an interview with dan hilferty, he says a lot of good things but does mention how bob clarke, homer and bill barber were the first people to reach out to him when he got the job. lol.

"Within the hockey ops office danny is thinking about he needs and his sense is there will be some changes, there will not any more major hires. Wants to make sure theres no wall between business/hockey side."

Of course they were. And I promise they're still talking all the damned time.

 

[Curufinwe]

Listening to Hilferty talk about Torts makes me gag.

He did specifically state that guys like Clarke and Barber "are not going to make the decisions going forward."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course, they'll just give him ideas and he will decide on them

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Of course, they'll just give him ideas and he will decide on them

Which ultimately comes down to, more of the same thing we've been seeing, this shit is sad, I honestly didn't even dislike the 76ers during the process years, the flyers are just on a mission to destroy their relationship with the fanbase

 

[AndHeMissedTheNet]

Constantly bringing up stuff like "making sure the business side and the hockey side are on the same page", the only thing that comes to mind is that they were really, REALLY scarred by the Provorov pride night thing and i'm thinking that their main motivation from wanting to move on from Provy isn't because he doesn't fit the timeline, but instead out of spite, or because he's "not good for business" or something. And when you trade a player like that for reasons like that, it becomes easy to undervalue him.

Provorov has been a disappointment given what the expectations were for him here, but there is absolutely no reason why a 26 y/o top pair d-man that's signed for 2 more years at a manageable cap hit shouldn't return, at the bare minimum, a late 1st round pick. I keep bringing up how interested i am in seeing what the returns in these trades end up being because that really is the litmus test for how i'm gonna be able to view Briere. If he starts getting fleeced in these deals, then we'll know that this team is gonna continue to be f***ed no matter who the coach or what the philosophy is.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Clarke, and the gang don’t need to make decisions anymore anyway. Don’t really even need to give input.

They have all but ensured that their horseshit way of thinking will live on.

Every department is filled with their stooges, and the assistant GM in Torts - along with Jones all think the same way.

 

[Redpath]

Constantly bringing up stuff like "making sure the business side and the hockey side are on the same page", the only thing that comes to mind is that they were really, REALLY scarred by the Provorov pride night thing and i'm thinking that their main motivation from wanting to move on from Provy isn't because he doesn't fit the timeline, but instead out of spite, or because he's "not good for business" or something. And when you trade a player like that for reasons like that, it becomes easy to undervalue him.

Provorov has been a disappointment given what the expectations were for him here, but there is absolutely no reason why a 26 y/o top pair d-man that's signed for 2 more years at a manageable cap hit shouldn't return, at the bare minimum, a late 1st round pick. I keep bringing up how interested i am in seeing what the returns in these trades end up being because that really is the litmus test for how i'm gonna be able to view Briere. If he starts getting fleeced in these deals, then we'll know that this team is gonna continue to be f***ed no matter who the coach or what the philosophy is.

It is so, so obvious that the Provorov stuff is what prompted this communications overreaction. Everything Camillo talked about on STG played right into the speculation about the business side getting cut out of the loop on Provorov.

So instead of simply communicating with each other on how to improve communications, or updating policy between business and hockey ops, we chose to hire an actual liaison so that Camillo and Briere don't have to regularly talk to each other. Genius.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Clarke, and the gang don’t need to make decisions anymore anyway. Don’t really even need to give input.

They have all but ensured that their horseshit way of thinking will live on.

Every department is filled with their stooges, and the assistant GM in Torts - along with Jones all think the same way.

Exactly. The entire organization from top to bottom is all filled in their image. it's why any actual rebuild has to start with firing everyone.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’ll make a real money wager that Torts outlasts Briere. Not as HC but in a position with the Flyers.

We have to hope that by empowering him he pisses off enough people to be let go. For this thing to move forward, his removal will be crucial even if at best it’s a few years out. Again, I don’t see it - he’s going to be here until he’s in a wheelchair at least in an advisory role but one can hope.

Unfortunately there are a lot more pieces that need to go, and the alumni have further ensured a chokehold on this franchise with Jones.

It’s kind of hard to admit but roughly the next decade as I see it is a waste of time for this team. It’s going to be a boring, archaic, star bereft, and disgusting product - and being gaslit daily by management/ownership.

 

[AndHeMissedTheNet]

My expectations for this regime currently are that we're getting an incremental improvement over Fletcher and Scott, which really was an impossible bar to go under. Until proven otherwise, i - and really no other Flyers fan - have no reason to be overly optimistic.

 

[deadhead]

Of the utmost importance here, given the control he's supposed to have, does Danny have the power to fire Torts? Or does he have to run it up and down and in and out and hold a Tribal Council?

No one in reality has that power other than Hilferty. Because when you ask the "owner" to eat $4-8M you'd better make sure he's on board.

But as long as Briere is perceived as doing a good job (in the end, his authority depends on Hilferty's confidence in him), if he recommended such a move to Hilferty, it would happen even if Jones objected.

 

[Redpath]

No one in reality has that power other than Hilferty. Because when you ask the "owner" to eat $4-8M you'd better make sure he's on board.

But as long as Briere is perceived as doing a good job (in the end, his authority depends on Hilferty's confidence in him), if he recommended such a move to Hilferty, it would happen even if Jones objected.

"Reality" does not have to be that way. If a President isn't empowed to fire Briere and/or if Briere isn't empowered to fire Torts, that was an unnecessary choice.

 

[kudymen]

I still cant believe how much knowledge about how the front office operates do we have - while not knowing anything about how the front office operates. Lol