Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[Hollywood Cannon]

That's pretty reasonable, they already have #5 and #7, they'll probably get one more high pick next draft.
They have an extra 1st in 2024, get a 2nd back with JOB, Provorov should garner a decent haul, Laughton, Hayes not so much.
TK? Hart? Risto next summer?

Land a couple top 6 forwards and a 1RHD the next 3 years, build up organizational depth, and you may have a pretty good team by then.
If they're still struggling, they'll have players in their prime seasons they can package a couple years from now.
Avoid big name FAs, use cap room to sweeten deals, find some "hidden gems."
We'll see if Briere can pull it off.

2026-27 (4 years):
Couts (34)
TK (29)
Cates (27)
Tippett (27)
Frost (27)
Farabee (26)
Gauthier (23)
Foerster (25)
Brink (25)
Desnoyers (25)
Lycksell (26)
Allison (29)
Wisdom (24)

York (25)
Sanheim (30)
Attard (27)
Zamula (26)
Andrae (23)
Ginning (26)
Samson (23)

Hart (28)
Ersson (27)

So... let me get this straight... Fletcher and Flahr for the longest time having one draft pick in the NHL after four plus years was good drafting (and development) and vigorously defended but now the new crew is going to turn things around in three years?

The base that you think is there isn't there. You believe every single year that "all" of the prospects will pan out and make the roster out of camp and then have the gaul to tell us as a board that WE overrated players.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

They'll tryhard their way into being first round cannon fodder at some point along the way. I'm thinking 2026 or 2027. Then they'll jack themselves off over the massive improvements/finally getting back in, and blame injuries when they miss again for the next 3 seasons.

Phew, at least it's injuries this time and not a pandemic.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Just a reminder…John Tortorella is the coach and will likely be placed in a management position soon.

I know I know - I'm not excited about any of this, but I think objectively Jonesy and Briere are a better start than what we had. Tortorella will inevitably wear out his welcome IMO when fans start to pay a little more attention and it will likely end in an ugly manner, but I have faith it'll be slightly better in a few years.

But that doesn't mean I'm happy. I'm miserable still. I need to see something from them. A cohesive strategy where everyone is aligned. I need to see some obvious moves made in the coming year.

- let JVR walk
- trade Laughton
- trade Hayes
- trade Provorov
- trade TDA
- consider trading Konecny for right package
- re-sign Carter Hart

Those are the realistic moves I think need to happen within the next year. If they do even half of those, I'll feel they're on the right path of being competent (and the JVR one is basically a freebie since there's no way he's returning).

 

[Rich Nixon]

I know I know - I'm not excited about any of this, but I think objectively Jonesy and Briere are a better start than what we had. Tortorella will inevitably wear out his welcome IMO when fans start to pay a little more attention and it will likely end in an ugly manner, but I have faith it'll be slightly better in a few years.

But that doesn't mean I'm happy. I'm miserable still. I need to see something from them. A cohesive strategy where everyone is aligned. I need to see some obvious moves made in the coming year.

- let JVR walk
- trade Laughton
- trade Hayes
- trade Provorov
- trade TDA
- consider trading Konecny for right package
- re-sign Carter Hart

Those are the moves I think need to happen within the next year. If they do even half of those, I'll feel they're on the right path of being competent.

- let JVR walk guaranteed
- trade Laughton they won't
- trade Hayes they will but it'll be ugly
- trade Provorov they'll try and fail
- trade TDA I'd be fine with a buyout
- consider trading Konecny for right package godwilling
- re-sign Carter Hart they should not do this, they should trade him

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's pretty reasonable, they already have #5 and #7, they'll probably get one more high pick next draft.
They have an extra 1st in 2024, get a 2nd back with JOB, Provorov should garner a decent haul, Laughton, Hayes not so much.
TK? Hart? Risto next summer?

Land a couple top 6 forwards and a 1RHD the next 3 years, build up organizational depth, and you may have a pretty good team by then.
If they're still struggling, they'll have players in their prime seasons they can package a couple years from now.
Avoid big name FAs, use cap room to sweeten deals, find some "hidden gems."
We'll see if Briere can pull it off.

2026-27 (4 years):
Couts (34)
TK (29)
Cates (27)
Tippett (27)
Frost (27)
Farabee (26)
Gauthier (23)
Foerster (25)
Brink (25)
Desnoyers (25)
Lycksell (26)
Allison (29)
Wisdom (24)

York (25)
Sanheim (30)
Attard (27)
Zamula (26)
Andrae (23)
Ginning (26)
Samson (23)

Hart (28)
Ersson (27)

None of that is happening.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't think Hayes will be that hard to move at 50%. Maybe Briere has to throw in a late pick.

If they retain 50% on Provorov, and there's no reason not to if this is actually a rebuild, they could get a really good haul. Provorov for 2 years at $3,375,000 should appeal to contenders who need to bolster their 2nd pairing, or who have a real #1 RHD who can lead the top pairing.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

- let JVR walk guaranteed
- trade Laughton they won't
- trade Hayes they will but it'll be ugly
- trade Provorov they'll try and fail
- trade TDA I'd be fine with a buyout
- consider trading Konecny for right package godwilling
- re-sign Carter Hart they should not do this, they should trade him

The one I'll comment on here is Carter Hart.

Normally, I'd agree with you that they should trade Carter Hart because why have a great goalie without a good team?

Well, I agree, BUT goalies can last a long time and he'll likely be good when we are finally good in 5 years or whatever.

Also, goalies aren't worthy anything in a trade, so I'd rather have Carter Hart than a 2nd round pick. That's really what it comes down to for me.

I don't think Hayes will be that hard to move at 50%. Maybe Briere has to throw in a late pick.

If they retain 50% on Provorov, and there's no reason not to if this is actually a rebuild, they could get a really good haul. Provorov for 2 years at $3,375,000 should appeal to contenders who need to bolster their 2nd pairing, or who have a real #1 RHD who can lead the top pairing.

I agree with both thoughts. If they are fine retaining on Provorov (and they should be), that will bring back a lot IMO if Briere has *any* negotiation skills.

 

[Curufinwe]

The contract Chuck gave Hart actually works out well since they have two years to decide if he should stay long term.

With the way goalies are these days, I don't think any but the very best deserve a long term deal with an AAV of $7m+. And that's what Hart's camp will be asking for.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Find me a quote where Torts says he hates skill. He didn't like the "Michigan" - but that's not "skill," that's just a trick play

No he said hate, on live TV, on ESPN, we've already discussed this, now you're just being ignorant to this

He also said high skilled plays like the Michigan and the over the net pass aren't good for the game of hockey, but yet it had made espns highlight reels, and exciting non hockey fans, but yes let's suppress skill and pretend he doesn't hate skill

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No he said hate, on live TV, on ESPN, we've already discussed this, now you're just being ignorant to this

He also said high skilled plays like the Michigan and the over the net pass aren't good for the game of hockey, but yet it had made espns highlight reels, and exciting non hockey fans, but yes let's suppress skill and pretend he doesn't hate skill

Get ready to be told what Torts REALLY meant in that it'll lead to players not capable of pulling off that move trying it and turning the puck over.

It's amazing how someone can be so inside of the inner workings of another person's brain.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think when someone tells us he hates skill, and then follows that by telling us the roster does NOT need more skill and instead needs to add more 4th liners...they might just hate skill, you know?

 

[Rebels57]

I know I know - I'm not excited about any of this, but I think objectively Jonesy and Briere are a better start than what we had. Tortorella will inevitably wear out his welcome IMO when fans start to pay a little more attention and it will likely end in an ugly manner, but I have faith it'll be slightly better in a few years.

But that doesn't mean I'm happy. I'm miserable still. I need to see something from them. A cohesive strategy where everyone is aligned. I need to see some obvious moves made in the coming year.

- let JVR walk
- trade Laughton
- trade Hayes
- trade Provorov
- trade TDA
- consider trading Konecny for right package
- re-sign Carter Hart

Those are the realistic moves I think need to happen within the next year. If they do even half of those, I'll feel they're on the right path of being competent (and the JVR one is basically a freebie since there's no way he's returning).

You just read the things Jones said this morning and you think he's better?

Hell, they might have been better off not changing anything than bringing this f***ing clown into the mix

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, things are worse now. This voice is among the last that needed to be added to the mix. It further entrenches mindsets that need to be violently eliminated.

 

[deadhead]

If you look at final four teams, similar pattern most years, two scoring lines, 3-4 top D-men, rest of team respectable depth.

ES scoring ( )
Carolina: Necas (44), Aho (48), Svechnikov (64g 38), Jarvis (33), Staal (32), Martinook (32), Kotkaniemi (31), Fast (26), Teravainen (23)
D: Burns 23:13 (38), Pesce 22:01 (24), Slavin 22:00 (26), Skjei 21:49 (30)

Dallas: Robertson (68), Hintz (51), Pavelski (49), Benn (45), Seguin (37), Johnston (34), Marchment (26), Dellandrea (25),
D: Heiskanen 25:29 (38), Suter 20:23 (20), Lindell 19:55 (22), Hakanpaa 19:21 (20)

Florida: Tkachuk (60), Verhaeghe (60), Barkov (46), Reinhart (37), Loustarinen (37), Bennett (31), Staal (27), Cousins (27), Lundell (26), Lomberg (20)
D: Montour 24:08 (40), Forsling 23:26 (34), Ekblad 23:24 (18) [Staal, Gudas, Mahura]

Vegas: Eichel (51), Stephenson (47), R Smith (42), Marchessault (41), Stone (43g 27), Karlsson (39), Kessel (27), Amadio (25), Carrier (25), Roy (23)
D: Pietrangelo 23:59 (38), Theodore 21:26 (32), McNabb 19:51 (15), Martinez 19:13 (13), Hague 18:05 (17)


Flyers: TK (60g 40), Frost (41), Tippett (37), Farabee (37), Cates (28), Laughton (27),
Provorov 23:01 (23), TDA 22:04 (23), Sanheim 20:24 (23), York 19:39 (54g 16), Risto 19:01 (12)

Hayes (38), JVR (61g 25)

Flyers have some young forwards who match up, they just need 2-3 more, Foerster, Gauthier, Brink???, #7???
At some point they'll have to make a move for a 1C.
The real problem is rebuilding the defense. A 1RHD would do wonders.

 

[deadhead]

No he said hate, on live TV, on ESPN, we've already discussed this, now you're just being ignorant to this

He also said high skilled plays like the Michigan and the over the net pass aren't good for the game of hockey, but yet it had made espns highlight reels, and exciting non hockey fans, but yes let's suppress skill and pretend he doesn't hate skill

The "Michigan" isn't skill, it's a trick play.

Skill plays are the ones you make all the time, pin point passes onto a teammate's blade, setting up a D-man as a screen for a wrist shot, etc.
Until you can make the basic plays in your sleep, don't waste practice time on ESPN highlight reel plays.

What do you see with good teams, they execute basic skills like skating (lateral agility more than speed), passing, shooting, et al consistently. Which is why the puck fluidly moves down the ice, they don't pass into teammates' skates on a regular basis, blindly fire wide of the net and so on.

What do you see with bad teams, they can't execute basic plays.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The "Michigan" isn't skill, it's a trick play.

Skill plays are the ones you make all the time, pin point passes onto a teammate's blade, setting up a D-man as a screen for a wrist shot, etc.
Until you can make the basic plays in your sleep, don't waste practice time on ESPN highlight reel plays.

What do you see with good teams, they execute basic skills like skating (lateral agility more than speed), passing, shooting, et al consistently. Which is why the puck fluidly moves down the ice, they don't pass into teammates' skates on a regular basis, blindly fire wide of the net and so on.

What do you see with bad teams, they can't execute basic plays.

We are aware that what Tortorella was mad about was the play where Zegras flipped the puck out front and Milano batted it out of the air into the net, right? That sure sounds like a pin point pass onto a teammate's blade to me.

Zegras and players like him can do it. Torts won't even let people consider doing it because he hates it.

If you look at final four teams, similar pattern most years, two scoring lines, 3-4 top D-men, rest of team respectable depth.

ES scoring ( )
Carolina: Necas (44), Aho (48), Svechnikov (64g 38), Jarvis (33), Staal (32), Martinook (32), Kotkaniemi (31), Fast (26), Teravainen (23)
D: Burns 23:13 (38), Pesce 22:01 (24), Slavin 22:00 (26), Skjei 21:49 (30)

Dallas: Robertson (68), Hintz (51), Pavelski (49), Benn (45), Seguin (37), Johnston (34), Marchment (26), Dellandrea (25),
D: Heiskanen 25:29 (38), Suter 20:23 (20), Lindell 19:55 (22), Hakanpaa 19:21 (20)

Florida: Tkachuk (60), Verhaeghe (60), Barkov (46), Reinhart (37), Loustarinen (37), Bennett (31), Staal (27), Cousins (27), Lundell (26), Lomberg (20)
D: Montour 24:08 (40), Forsling 23:26 (34), Ekblad 23:24 (18) [Staal, Gudas, Mahura]

Vegas: Eichel (51), Stephenson (47), R Smith (42), Marchessault (41), Stone (43g 27), Karlsson (39), Kessel (27), Amadio (25), Carrier (25), Roy (23)
D: Pietrangelo 23:59 (38), Theodore 21:26 (32), McNabb 19:51 (15), Martinez 19:13 (13), Hague 18:05 (17)


Flyers: TK (60g 40), Frost (41), Tippett (37), Farabee (37), Cates (28), Laughton (27),
Provorov 23:01 (23), TDA 22:04 (23), Sanheim 20:24 (23), York 19:39 (54g 16), Risto 19:01 (12)

Hayes (38), JVR (61g 25)

Flyers have some young forwards who match up, they just need 2-3 more, Foerster, Gauthier, Brink???, #7???
At some point they'll have to make a move for a 1C.
The real problem is rebuilding the defense. A 1RHD would do wonders.

On what planet do the Flyers young forwards match up to the quality of those teams? Konecny is probably at best the third or so best forward on all of those teams. Great success, much praise.

 

[kudymen]

It's amazing how someone can be so inside of the inner workings of another person's brain.

while repeating that none of us have any idea how the organization operates so lets stop with making assumptions

Also good to se the good old "what this word actually means to me" game making a comeback, years after the "elite" lectures, a sequel about skill

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He despises it.

“I’m not trying to be difficult about it. It’s fun to watch, it’s really cool but I just think our game has gone so far away from what the game should be. A hard game, an honest game. It’s almost gotten to showman,” the former head coach said. “I know you need to have it, you need to sell the game but I’m from the ilk that an honest hockey game needs to be played.”

 

[deadhead]

So... let me get this straight... Fletcher and Flahr for the longest time having one draft pick in the NHL after four plus years was good drafting (and development) and vigorously defended but now the new crew is going to turn things around in three years?

The base that you think is there isn't there. You believe every single year that "all" of the prospects will pan out and make the roster out of camp and then have the gaul to tell us as a board that WE overrated players.

Foerster will start next year, Gauthier could start if the Flyers wanted to play him at LW.
Attard will get a shot in camp, so will Brink, Desnoyers. Andrae will start with the Phantoms, good chance he'll be up by January.

Top ten picks normally start in the NHL in their D+2 season, later 1st rd pick D+3 or D+4.
Prospects they get in trade should push to start.
By 2026, the 2023 and 2024 drafts will produce some starters and some in LHV, on the verge of pushing for jobs.

Of course, they have to execute well, but that's the same for any team.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

The "Michigan" isn't skill, it's a trick play.

Skill plays are the ones you make all the time, pin point passes onto a teammate's blade, setting up a D-man as a screen for a wrist shot, etc.
Until you can make the basic plays in your sleep, don't waste practice time on ESPN highlight reel plays.

What do you see with good teams, they execute basic skills like skating (lateral agility more than speed), passing, shooting, et al consistently. Which is why the puck fluidly moves down the ice, they don't pass into teammates' skates on a regular basis, blindly fire wide of the net and so on.

What do you see with bad teams, they can't execute basic plays.

I'm sorry what? That's has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said, and I know you aren't dumb, you're an educated man, but you're really playing dumb here deady, those are skill plays, your average player just can't do them, you're downplaying it severely, and also those are pin point and precise plays, especially the flip pass over the net, right to Milano, couldn't be any more precise than that, and the ESPN comment I made was because it made people check out more of hockey, it opened the eyes to some non hockey people, that the sport is also fun, you don't have to polish everything this organizations management group does and says, you are in a safe place, you can be honest for once

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Foerster will start next year, Gauthier could start if the Flyers wanted to play him at LW.
Attard will get a shot in camp, so will Brink, Desnoyers. Andrae will start with the Phantoms, good chance he'll be up by January.

Top ten picks normally start in the NHL in their D+2 season, later 1st rd pick D+3 or D+4.
Prospects they get in trade should push to start.
By 2026, the 2023 and 2024 drafts will produce some starters and some in LHV, on the verge of pushing for jobs.

Of course, they have to execute well, but that's the same for any team.

You do this every single year.

 

[deadhead]

I'm sorry what? That's has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said, and I know you aren't dumb, you're an educated man, but you're really playing dumb here deady, those are skill plays, your average player just can't do them, you're downplaying it severely, and also those are pin point and precise plays, especially the flip pass over the net, right to Milano, couldn't be any more precise than that, and the ESPN comment I made was because it made people check out more of hockey, it opened the eyes to some non hockey people, that the sport is also fun, you don't have to polish everything this organizations management group does and says, you are in a safe place, you can be honest for once

Excuse me, did you watch the Flyers last season?
Maybe they should focus on mastering the basics before they spend time trying to perfect trick plays.

How many times a season will a goal be scored with a pass over the net? Once? Twice?
How many times a season will a goal be scored b/c the pass is on the blade in shooting position instead of a foot or two off or late and deflected.

Until my team can master the basics, I don't want them getting cute.
Learning how to make good entry and exit passes is a far more valuable skill than the "Michigan."

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Captain Dave Poulin i’d probably take Dwayne over this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you look at final four teams, similar pattern most years, two scoring lines, 3-4 top D-men, rest of team respectable depth.

ES scoring ( )
Carolina: Necas (44), Aho (48), Svechnikov (64g 38), Jarvis (33), Staal (32), Martinook (32), Kotkaniemi (31), Fast (26), Teravainen (23)
D: Burns 23:13 (38), Pesce 22:01 (24), Slavin 22:00 (26), Skjei 21:49 (30)

Dallas: Robertson (68), Hintz (51), Pavelski (49), Benn (45), Seguin (37), Johnston (34), Marchment (26), Dellandrea (25),
D: Heiskanen 25:29 (38), Suter 20:23 (20), Lindell 19:55 (22), Hakanpaa 19:21 (20)

Florida: Tkachuk (60), Verhaeghe (60), Barkov (46), Reinhart (37), Loustarinen (37), Bennett (31), Staal (27), Cousins (27), Lundell (26), Lomberg (20)
D: Montour 24:08 (40), Forsling 23:26 (34), Ekblad 23:24 (18) [Staal, Gudas, Mahura]

Vegas: Eichel (51), Stephenson (47), R Smith (42), Marchessault (41), Stone (43g 27), Karlsson (39), Kessel (27), Amadio (25), Carrier (25), Roy (23)
D: Pietrangelo 23:59 (38), Theodore 21:26 (32), McNabb 19:51 (15), Martinez 19:13 (13), Hague 18:05 (17)


Flyers: TK (60g 40), Frost (41), Tippett (37), Farabee (37), Cates (28), Laughton (27),
Provorov 23:01 (23), TDA 22:04 (23), Sanheim 20:24 (23), York 19:39 (54g 16), Risto 19:01 (12)

Hayes (38), JVR (61g 25)

Flyers have some young forwards who match up, they just need 2-3 more, Foerster, Gauthier, Brink???, #7???
At some point they'll have to make a move for a 1C.
The real problem is rebuilding the defense. A 1RHD would do wonders.

You're delusional.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Back in my day the Flyers were the toughest, baddest, and downright hardest working team in the NHL.

FA flocked here, and the kids knew they had to earn any ice time or they would be riding the bus.

I’m happy Torts can bring us back to these values.