Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[deadhead]

Chicago. Last year.

What happened? I thought he was a golden boy? What did he interview for, since they had a GM in place in Kyle Davidson.

Between 2012 and 2018, he worked for the ice hockey organization's administration and held various position. In 2018, he was appointed assistant to general manager Stan Bowman. The following year, Davidson was promoted to assistant general manager, and in October 2021 he took over on an interim basis after Bowman stepped down from his positions with the Blackhawks. On March 1, 2022, the Blackhawks removed the interim tag, and formally named him as their general manager.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It’s interesting to me that a couple members of the organization have now mentioned the whole “ex flyers alumni criticism”.

I honestly thought they were too insulated and out of touch to hear it but apparently they do.

I also find it interesting and disturbing that their reaction is to get defensive and downplay it and gaslight us into thinking we’re the ones who are overly dramatic.

Even if we are the ones being over dramatic, with where public opinion is about the franchise they should be putting alumni’s heads on spikes but instead we get the gaslight.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What happened? I thought he was a golden boy? What did he interview for, since they had a GM in place in Kyle Davidson.

Between 2012 and 2018, he worked for the ice hockey organization's administration and held various position. In 2018, he was appointed assistant to general manager Stan Bowman. The following year, Davidson was promoted to assistant general manager, and in October 2021 he took over on an interim basis after Bowman stepped down from his positions with the Blackhawks. On March 1, 2022, the Blackhawks removed the interim tag, and formally named him as their general manager.

Um, General Manager.

You see, teams are, in fact, allowed to interview outside candidates when an interim tag is placed on someone. It actually is something that should be encouraged but gotta protect the shield.

 

[ponder719]

It’s interesting to me that a couple members of the organization have now mentioned the whole “ex flyers alumni criticism”.

I honestly thought they were too insulated and out of touch to hear it but apparently they do.

I also find it interesting and disturbing that their reaction is to get defensive and downplay it and gaslight us into thinking we’re the ones who are overly dramatic.

I'd probably get defensive, too, if I thought someone was trying to cut off the gravy train. These guys know they have jobs for life, as long as team management never gets wise. Once someone starts scraping for barnacles, they're all toast, so they have to embed themselves deep.

 

[trostol]

Team can't be sold soon enough

 

[Redpath]

This "leaguewide access/insider" angle is bunk. Even if Jonesy was getting told trade secrets as a neutral broadcaster, who is going to do that now that he's a partisan President?

 

[deadhead]

Um, General Manager.

You see, teams are, in fact, allowed to interview outside candidates when an interim tag is placed on someone. It actually is something that should be encouraged but gotta protect the shield.

You mean go through the pro forma process so they can say they looked at all possibilities and the guy they had was the best of the group?

Same result, better PR.

 

[freakydallas13]

Meh. It's always been Briere/Torts since the spring, and Briere has been groomed for the job for a couple years.

The idea that Fletcher was on board with his possible replacement who owed nothing to him or the advisors and had a direct pipeline to Comcast management is absurd. The man may have been mediocre in his hockey judgement, but understood office politics. Briere was forced on him.

Jones was chosen because by all reports he is a smart, personable hockey man, and he was on board with what Hilferty, Briere and Torts had already decided was the direction for the franchise. They weren't going to hire someone with a different vision for the rebuild.

Torts is not a dinosaur, his style of play is what I see in the playoffs, Carolina, Seattle, Dallas.
Aggressive forecheck, defensemen attacking the O-zone (and forwards cycling back), the low/high cycle in the O-zone.
The one team that blocked more shots than the Flyers? Vegas.
NJ is out and Toronto is on their way out - the two teams you'd consider to be "anti-Torts."
Edmonton is hanging in there at best.

I have no problem with what seems to be their vision for this team (ignore the Flyers' crap), I question whether they can execute that vision.
But only time will tell.

Groomed for several years! 14 months as the special assistant to the worst GM in team history certainly is an accolade.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This "leaguewide access/insider" angle is bunk. Even if Jonesy was getting told trade secrets as a neutral broadcaster, who is going to do that now that he's a partisan President?

Tortorella's eye test is shit. He doesn't even know what he's looking at out there. He doesn't understand the game.

 

[04hockey]

Tortorella's eye test is shit. He doesn't even know what he's looking at out there. He doesn't understand the game.

amazing

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You mean go through the pro forma process so they can say they looked at all possibilities and the guy they had was the best of the group?

Same result, better PR.

Le sigh. You don’t need to defend every single thing that this franchise does.

You don’t actually hold this stance on this matter. It’s ok to admit that there have been errors made in this process.

 

[Bigkarl]

You mean go through the pro forma process so they can say they looked at all possibilities and the guy they had was the best of the group?

Same result, better PR.

Or they could actually be a tiny bit competent and go into the interview process open minded, willing to gather outside perspectives on their franchise, possibly put together a shortlist of good candidates for other roles that might come up in the future, etc.

 

[Beef Invictus]

amazing

Don't ask me, ask him. It's what he said. He openly admits to having absolutely no understanding of modern offense, and no intention of figuring it out. If you don't understand modern offense, you can't run one. Nor can you hope to defend against it.

You'll learn inevitably that I'm right.

 

[deadhead]

Le sigh. You don’t need to defend every single thing that this franchise does.

You don’t actually hold this stance on this matter. It’s ok to admit that there have been errors made in this process.

I'm just pointing out that Chicago promotes their interim GM after a "search," which sounds awfully similar - and a lot like a lot of jobs that are "advertised," when the candidate is wired in house but they do so for legal reasons or internal politics.

 

[GKJ]

Has Tulsky interviewed for any job?

He was a finalist in Chicago.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm just pointing out that Chicago promotes their interim GM after a "search," which sounds awfully similar - and a lot like a lot of jobs that are "advertised," when the candidate is wired in house but they do so for legal reasons or internal politics.

Please tell me you’re not saying it sounds similar to the Flyers situation…

There was no search by the Flyers. They have admitted that.

The only thing that is similar is that they hired the interim. The Flyers pursued no outside voices. They didn’t actually pursue ANYTHING.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Lindberg]

What is with this ridiculous defense of management? Easily the past 10-12 years has been a complete disaster. The Flyers are a team with money unlike half the league.

 

[deadhead]

Please tell me you’re not saying it sounds similar to the Flyers situation…

There was no search by the Flyers. They have admitted that. The only thing that is similar is that they hired the interim. The Flyers pursued no outside voices. They didn’t actually pursue ANYTHING.

I'm doubtful there was a real search by Chicago either, better optics.
Usually a team decides the interim is not the one they want as the full-time GM, then they conduct a wide open search.

As far as Tulsky v Briere, I think you can make a case for both.

I think Briere's playing experience is a real asset, having played for both SC contenders and rebuilding teams, he's garnered a wealth of experience about team chemistry, what goes into building a winning team, etc. Being in those situations allows you a better perspective for evaluating HCs, schemes and talent. Intangibles for him is more than a buzz word, it's something he's experienced first hand

But that requires someone sharp enough to assimilate and integrate that knowledge, and use other sources of information to put that experience into proper context. IF Briere really is analytically inclined, and learned enough at Wharton to make critical judgements of analytics, he has an edge on Tulsky

However, we just don't know. A lot of players have a wealth of experience, but lack the education/intelligence to adjust to a more sophisticated milieu (I think the game bypassed Holmgren for that reason). Eyeballs still have value, but today's game requires a wider range of skills than "I know it when I see it."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Come on Bill, the reason it's multiple trips without wins is because Clarke had the means to just buy teams but was too stupid and incompetent to build proper depth. And occasionally hamstrung the team with his ego fits.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm doubtful there was a real search by Chicago either, better optics.
Usually a team decides the interim is not the one they want as the full-time GM, then they conduct a wide open search.

As far as Tulsky v Briere, I think you can make a case for both.

I think Briere's playing experience is a real asset, having played for both SC contenders and rebuilding teams, he's garnered a wealth of experience about team chemistry, what goes into building a winning team, etc. Being in those situations allows you a better perspective for evaluating HCs, schemes and talent. Intangibles for him is more than a buzz word, it's something he's experienced first hand

But that requires someone sharp enough to assimilate and integrate that knowledge, and use other sources of information to put that experience into proper context. IF Briere really is analytically inclined, and learned enough at Wharton to make critical judgements of analytics, he has an edge on Tulsky

However, we just don't know. A lot of players have a wealth of experience, but lack the education/intelligence to adjust to a more sophisticated milieu (I think the game bypassed Holmgren for that reason). Eyeballs still have value, but today's game requires a wider range of skills than "I know it when I see it."

You have admitted yourself you don’t know how the Flyers front office operates so now you’re going to make the mental leap that you know how the Blackhawks front office operates?

Come on now.

It’s ok to admit that errors were made.

 

[deadhead]

You have admitted yourself you don’t know how the Flyers front office operates so now you’re going to make the mental leap that you know how the Blackhawks front office operates?

Come on now.

It’s ok to admit that errors were made.

It's a general observation that when you have a search with your interim GM as one of the candidates, it's usually a pro forma search.
That is, if an organization is really looking outside, then it wouldn't consider the interim guy, whereas if the interim is a real candidate, he has a huge edge over any outsider.
The exception is when an organization is looking outside, can't find or loses its preferred candidates to other teams, and "settles' for the interim.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's a general observation that when you have a search with your interim GM as one of the candidates, it's usually a pro forma search.
That is, if an organization is really looking outside, then it wouldn't consider the interim guy, whereas if the interim is a real candidate, he has a huge edge over any outsider.
The exception is when an organization is looking outside, can't find or loses its preferred candidates to other teams, and "settles' for the interim.

This is very very bad when your entire organization is incompetent from Clarke on down through the scouts.

 

[Magua]

This "leaguewide access/insider" angle is bunk. Even if Jonesy was getting told trade secrets as a neutral broadcaster, who is going to do that now that he's a partisan President?

Jones’ idea of analytics is hits/60.

I also like how they said the quiet part out loud. Keith Jones will have a sizable voice regarding the roster, analytics usage, etc.

 

[GKJ]

Come on Bill, the reason it's multiple trips without wins is because Clarke had the means to just buy teams but was too stupid and incompetent to build proper depth. And occasionally hamstrung the team with his ego fits.

It’s not even that. How many millennials and zoomers have seen the Flyers be the Flyers? Because they’re the people you need to become STH’s, not people who fondly remember the heroes of the 80’s.