Speculation: Keeping Ck

[darko]

Sorry I am singling you out, many others have said this.
I tend to disagree. Kreider really isnt injury prone (thus far) he will ALWAYS be big and strong and even if he loses a step he will still be fast and still be that net front presence.

At the end of a 7x7 he will be 36 not 40! With rising cap and salaries that might actually become a bargain for what he brings........someday. I personally believe there will be many teams willing to give him that. You don't think the Bruins would have lived to have him on their 2nd line and on PP?

Speaking of the Bruins, what a bad break losing Nasher he might have helped them win it. Waaah friggin waaah. Cry, sob, cry. Lol

Prime Kreider is a 50 point player. What happens when he loses a step? You want to be paying 7 mill a year for a declining 20-20 player? If he gets 7/49, that contract becomes an albatross by year 4 or 5.

 

[Larrybiv]

Prime Kreider is a 50 point player. What happens when he loses a step? You want to be paying 7 mill a year for a declining 20-20 player? If he gets 7/49, that contract becomes an albatross by year 4 or 5.

Okay, I will give you that but.......isnt there a chance he will be even better with more talent surrounding him? Just saying.
I dont want to lose what he brings, like someone said players like Kreider dont grow on trees.
Gorts will get something really good for him, he had better.

 

[darko]

Okay, I will give you that but.......isnt there a chance he will be even better with more talent surrounding him? Just saying.
I dont want to lose what he brings, like someone said players like Kreider dont grow on trees.
Gorts will get something really good for him, he had better.

There is a solid chance he could be better. Are you willing to bet 49 mill on it?

Love Kreider. Love the player. But you have to do what's best for the team. Surely we learnt our lesson from past extensions.

 

[Edge]

Okay, I will give you that but.......isnt there a chance he will be even better with more talent surrounding him? Just saying.
I dont want to lose what he brings, like someone said players like Kreider dont grow on trees.
Gorts will get something really good for him, he had better.

I think Kreider could be even better in the right situation. The question becomes how much is that gamble worth, especially on a roster that is shelling out big bucks to Panarin, and in a system that will be focusing on getting the most out of Kravtsov and Kakko, and possibly Buchnevich?

I feel like once the Rangers went down the Panarin route, the Kreider era essentially came to a close.

 

[Thordic]

Sorry I am singling you out, many others have said this.
I tend to disagree. Kreider really isnt injury prone (thus far) he will ALWAYS be big and strong and even if he loses a step he will still be fast and still be that net front presence.

At the end of a 7x7 he will be 36 not 40! With rising cap and salaries that might actually become a bargain for what he brings........someday. I personally believe there will be many teams willing to give him that. You don't think the Bruins would have lived to have him on their 2nd line and on PP?

Speaking of the Bruins, what a bad break losing Nasher he might have helped them win it. Waaah friggin waaah. Cry, sob, cry. Lol

No worries - I dont feel attacked.

It's a valid point. There's no reason why Kreider can't become Tomas Holmstrom 2.0. I won't go too deep into the weeds but one concern is that Kreider's contract could cause issues once some of our prospects pan out and need new contracts. I guess as long as we don't give CK a NMC then it might work out.

I still don't see how we keep him without trading Names and buying out Smith at the very least though.

 

[darko]

I think Kreider could be even better in the right situation. The question becomes how much is that gamble worth, especially on a roster that is shelling out big bucks to Panarin, and in a system that will be focusing on getting the most out of Kravtsov and Kakko, and possibly Buchnevich?

I feel like once the Rangers went down the Panarin route, the Kreider era essentially came to a close.

Agree. Getting Panarin IMO was the final nail in Kreider coffin.

 

[McRanger]

Agree. Getting Panarin IMO was the final nail in Kreider coffin.

Its too bad he's not locked up another year or so, Kreider's skill set is a perfect fit with this new group.

 

[darko]

Its too bad he's not locked up another year or so, Kreider's skill set is a perfect fit with this new group.

Yup.

 

[True Blue]

Agree. Getting Panarin IMO was the final nail in Kreider coffin.

Not necessarily. It may be that Kreider stays and Buch goes.

 

[True Blue]

Its too bad he's not locked up another year or so, Kreider's skill set is a perfect fit with this new group.

I think that will go into consideration. IF Kreider takes a discount (call it $6-6.5), he may well stay. As you point out, he is a fit, will continue to be a strong net front presence, especially on the power play. And let's face it, if Buch has anther season or two like Kreider, within panarin's time here, he will also be looking for dollars like Kreider has taken.

There are positives to Kreider staying. And it can be made to fit within the capital structure.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Not necessarily. It may be that Kreider stays and Buch goes.

I think that will go into consideration. IF Kreider takes a discount (call it $6-6.5), he may well stay. As you point out, he is a fit, will continue to be a strong net front presence, especially on the power play. And let's face it, if Buch has anther season or two like Kreider, within panarin's time here, he will also be looking for dollars like Kreider has taken.

There are positives to Kreider staying. And it can be made to fit within the capital structure.

I think the contract situations make it 95% likely Kreider is moved. I mean, you're looking at the difference between locking up at 23-y-o Buch at $4-5MM for 4-5 years (or $3-3.5MM for 2-3 years) vs. locking up a 28-y-o Kreider at $7MM x 7 years.

I recognize the value he brings, and that he possesses a different skillset from the other wingers on the team, but for it to be at all realistic to keep him over Buch, he'd need to take a MASSIVE discount, both in terms of AAV, and in particular/most important, term. I'm thinking it's something more like $5-6MM for 5 years, max.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

man I would absolutely love to keep CK. Having him as our 2nd line LW would be such a luxury. But it really makes no sense to have so much tied up in wingers. Plus he's about to hit his UFA payday, no way he takes a discount nor a shorter deal. He's looking to cash out. I just hope he goes somewhere where I can still cheer for him. I.e not Boston, Long Island, Newark, Pitt, or Philly

 

[Filthy Dangles]

man I would absolutely love to keep CK. Having him as our 2nd line LW would be such a luxury. But it really makes no sense to have so much tied up in wingers. Plus he's about to hit his UFA payday, no way he takes a discount nor a shorter deal. He's looking to cash out. I just hope he goes somewhere where I can still cheer for him. I.e not Boston, Long Island, Newark, Pitt, or Philly

He'd be a really good third piece on a top line with Nikita Kucherov and Brayden Point. His speed and force down low would help Tampa in the playoffs. His point totals would probably skyrocket playing with those guys.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He'd be a really good third piece on a top line with Nikita Kucherov and Brayden Point. His speed and force down low would help Tampa in the playoffs. His point totals would probably skyrocket playing with those guys.

He'd also be perfect for Edmonton but theres no way he waives to go there, and I wouldn't want to do that to him anyway. Avs seem like a good fit as well.

 

[True Blue]

I think the contract situations make it 95% likely Kreider is moved. I mean, you're looking at the difference between locking up at 23-y-o Buch at $4-5MM for 4-5 years (or $3-3.5MM for 2-3 years) vs. locking up a 28-y-o Kreider at $7MM x 7 years.

I think that presumes that Buch signs such a deal and does not get a bridge. If it is the later, his pay day will come and will outlast the Kreider deal.

 

[NikC]

Honestly, I would have rather the rangers pass on Panarin and trade CK for a center and continue rebuilding through the draft.

Getting a player like Panarin and losing CK kind of cancels out the latter.
Each player has a skill set the other doesn't possess. Competitive teams are constructed with different player dynamics that complement one another.

If JG can trade CK for a C great. There are several players I'd like to see moved before CK.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Honestly, I would have rather the rangers pass on Panarin and trade CK for a center and continue rebuilding through the draft.

Getting a player like Panarin and losing CK kind of cancels out the latter.
Each player has a skill set the other doesn't possess. Competitive teams are constructed with different player dynamics that complement one another.

If JG can trade CK for a C great. There are several players I'd like to see moved before CK.

panarin is head over heels the better player. his productivity is right up there with the top 5 names in the entire league.

vally did an interview on NHLnetweok on sirius that detailed exactly the kind of player panarin is. it was a slam dunk.

CK isn't close and at this point in his career, there's no thinking hell be anything more than what hes been. hes 28 yrs old. hes done developing.

 

[GAGLine]

I think that presumes that Buch signs such a deal and does not get a bridge. If it is the later, his pay day will come and will outlast the Kreider deal.

If Buch gets a bridge deal, it will be for 1 or 2 years (he is UFA in 3 years, so the contract will be 1, 2 or 4+ years). If he gets a 2 year deal, he will only be 26 when his next contract starts and still an RFA. Kreider will be 29 when his next contract starts. That 3 years is a big difference.

If I'm the Rangers, I'm expecting him to start putting up bigger numbers starting this year. He's no doubt going to get time with Panarin and he seemed to figure it out at the end of last year. If he can bring a consistent effort, I can see him breaking 60 points next season. And yes, that will cost the Rangers down the road, so lock him up now at a reasonable number.

I think the deals that Johnsson and Kapanen just got from Toronto are good comparables.

Johnsson has 46 points in 82 career games (.56 ppg). This past year, he had 43 points in 73 games (.59 ppg). He got a 4 year deal at 3.4 mil per year.
Kapanen has 56 in 133 career games (.42 ppg). This past year, he had 44 points in 78 games (.56 ppg). He got a 3 years deal at 3.2 mil per year.

Buchnevich has 101 points in 179 career games (.56 ppg). This past year, he had 38 points in 64 games (.59 ppg). He has played more games and put up more points than those two, but his career average is the same as Johnsson's and all of them put up similar numbers last year. Could we possibly get Buch signed for 5 or 6 years at say, 4 mil? He might not want to sign for that long. Guys don't want to give up UFA years. His agent might push hard for a max of 4 years. If so, that will still be preferable to 1 or 2 years IMO.

 

[kovazub94]

If Buch gets a bridge deal, it will be for 1 or 2 years (he is UFA in 3 years, so the contract will be 1, 2 or 4+ years). If he gets a 2 year deal, he will only be 26 when his next contract starts and still an RFA. Kreider will be 29 when his next contract starts. That 3 years is a big difference.

If I'm the Rangers, I'm expecting him to start putting up bigger numbers starting this year. He's no doubt going to get time with Panarin and he seemed to figure it out at the end of last year. If he can bring a consistent effort, I can see him breaking 60 points next season. And yes, that will cost the Rangers down the road, so lock him up now at a reasonable number.

I think the deals that Johnsson and Kapanen just got from Toronto are good comparables.

Johnsson has 46 points in 82 career games (.56 ppg). This past year, he had 43 points in 73 games (.59 ppg). He got a 4 year deal at 3.4 mil per year.
Kapanen has 56 in 133 career games (.42 ppg). This past year, he had 44 points in 78 games (.56 ppg). He got a 3 years deal at 3.2 mil per year.

Buchnevich has 101 points in 179 career games (.56 ppg). This past year, he had 38 points in 64 games (.59 ppg). He has played more games and put up more points than those two, but his career average is the same as Johnsson's and all of them put up similar numbers last year. Could we possibly get Buch signed for 5 or 6 years at say, 4 mil? He might not want to sign for that long. Guys don't want to give up UFA years. His agent might push hard for a max of 4 years. If so, that will still be preferable to 1 or 2 years IMO.

Signing Buch to a 6-year deal at $4m-$5m would be another great offseason move that's already full of such!

 

[True Blue]

Signing Buch to a 6-year deal at $4m-$5m would be another great offseason move that's already full of such!

That makes sense, but not sure if they are going to take a chance with such term.

 

[NikC]

panarin is head over heels the better player. his productivity is right up there with the top 5 names in the entire league.

vally did an interview on NHLnetweok on sirius that detailed exactly the kind of player panarin is. it was a slam dunk.

CK isn't close and at this point in his career, there's no thinking hell be anything more than what hes been. hes 28 yrs old. hes done developing.

I realize Panarin is the better player, my point, is CK is a different type of player, and brings a another dynamic.
For too long the rangers have struggled to score, relying on 1 or 2 players to carry the load. That's a recipe for failure every time.

CK was on pace for at least 35g last season. His drop off from December is pretty bad. Maybe the uprooting of the team, affected him.

Again, I would rather see other players moved first, I realize they still may not be able to afford him.
In that case, hopefully JG can get a C for him

 

[Rongomania]

Honestly, I would have rather the rangers pass on Panarin and trade CK for a center and continue rebuilding through the draft.

Getting a player like Panarin and losing CK kind of cancels out the latter.
Each player has a skill set the other doesn't possess. Competitive teams are constructed with different player dynamics that complement one another.

If JG can trade CK for a C great. There are several players I'd like to see moved before CK.

Panarin + Trouba pretty much sealed Kreids' fate I feel.

Plus Panarin is elite and Kreider just isn't. He is very, very good when he's on and healthy. Plus, Panarin has a TON less miles on him in the NHL. I also just think Zibs reaches that full potential he speaks of (as well as our mgmt.) with the new guys we have coming in now and Kreider will be forgotten pretty quickly. I love him, but what he'll get us in the trade market ESPECIALLY if we attach a piece maybe most of us really wouldn't want to attach ... I think if we play this right we get another young stud up in here.

 

[GAGLine]

That makes sense, but not sure if they are going to take a chance with such term.

It will depend on cap space, but if we can afford to do it, I absolutely would. I don't see much risk there. Buch went through a year of tough love and inconsistent play and still managed to put up 38 points in 64 games. Barring injury, it's pretty much a guarantee that his numbers will go up, as he will no doubt get time with Panarin. If he still leaves us wanting, we should be able to trade him for good value. If he takes his game to the next level and becomes the player we hope he can be, then it's a huge win.

I think the odds of him regressing and his contract becoming an albatross are very, very low. There were discussions where he was the main piece in a trade for the 7th overall pick. The trade didn't happen, obviously, but if he holds enough value now to be in that discussion, how much value will he hold 2 years from now if he puts up 60+ points and still has 4 years left on a cheap contract at age 26? Even if he only puts up 50+ points, he will still have a lot of value.

The potential rewards far outweigh the risks IMO, but again, it depends on how much cap space we are able to clear.

 

[True Blue]

It will depend on cap space, but if we can afford to do it, I absolutely would. I don't see much risk there. Buch went through a year of tough love and inconsistent play and still managed to put up 38 points in 64 games. Barring injury, it's pretty much a guarantee that his numbers will go up, as he will no doubt get time with Panarin. If he still leaves us wanting, we should be able to trade him for good value. If he takes his game to the next level and becomes the player we hope he can be, then it's a huge win.

Who plays the wing on ZBad's & Panarin's line will be interesting. If Buch is here, it will probably be him. Could also be one of the K 'yutes.

As for Kreider, I still believe that it is 50 50 that he stays and it is Buch that is going. Something to monitor.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Rangers seem to be taking their time with Trouba, Buch, Kreids situation, the rest of the RFAs and the Pack coaching staff/structure. And Lindy Ruffs status? It's already been 10 days since Panarin was signed. Got to think they've gotten plenty of trade calls on Kreider and maybe others since then, understanding what they added to the cap.

But it is almost a must to stay patient now and really assess every road. Not the time for snap judgements with so many moving parts to the puzzle.

They've had such a great offseason and I don't want to discount the work they've done but Kakko, Trouba and Panarin basically fell into their laps - all no-brainers to pull the trigger.

So now they have transitioned into the dirty-work dog days of summer. The need to lay it all out in front of them and investigate every possible avenue, and maybe even get away for a long weekend with the family to keep the mind sharp.

Traverse City is the first week of September and then Training Camp the following week. That gives the Rangers about a month and half to make several crucial decisions. Probably less to have everything in place for the coaching staffs.

I'm curious to find out what domino will fall first. Will it be an RFA extension? Will it be a trade? It would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall at the recent meetings.