Value of: Kasperi Kapanen for a young Dman

[Randy Randerson]

For the record, a panel of NHL scouts agrees with you.

The Hockey News just put out their Prospects Unlimited issue and for it they assembled a panel of NHL scouts to rank the top 100 prospects under 23 in the National Hockey League.

Lehkonen was ranked #84. Kapanen wasn't ranked at all.

Not sure that really supports the position that Lekhonen is clearly above the other two, if it was just published then the last hockey those scouts saw of those guys was Lekhonen on fire in the SHL playoffs, Johnsson taking a flying elbow to end his season and Kapanen not doing much without the opportunity to do much in the AHL playoffs. ~16 spots near the back end of that list I would think could fluctuate pretty easy with a good or bad performance from any of them

And it definitely doesn't support his position that Lekhonen makes the leafs roster...unless Lekhonen is ranked above Nylander and Marner, and if he is I concede

 

[Canada4Gold]

Pronman's summer rankings had Kapanen 58, Lehkonen 81, Montour 118, and Johnsson not ranked. I think Kap is too high here, Montour too low. I also had Brown above Kap though and he was behind Kap here.

Rankings vary, and they're all educated guesses anyway, that's what scouting is, it's impossible to know how the players will develop.

I would say Kap, Lehk, and Montour are all pretty close in the same tier. I have them all above Johnsson.

 

[FerrisRox]

Not sure that really supports the position that Lekhonen is clearly above the other two

You're not sure if a panel of NHL scouts ranking him above the other two supports the position that he's above the other two?

Okay then. Don't even know how to respond to that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

You're not sure if a panel of NHL scouts ranking him above the other two supports the position that he's above the other two?

Okay then. Don't even know how to respond to that.

meaning that a small gap like that at the back of a list of 100 prospects probably doesn't represent a tier difference between them, especially if you consider what was happening with each of these guys at the time that the opinions were gathered - momentum means alot with guys who have big ceilings and low floors. For example, watch Kirill Kaprizov fly up these lists this year

Like the post above mentions, there are other reputable lists that have Kapanen far ahead of the other two (which I also don't believe is the case)

My position is that these guys are close and that Lekhonen wouldn't have made the leafs

 

[thedoughboy]

I'd do Pokka for him personally.

 

[HuGo Sham]

You're not sure if a panel of NHL scouts ranking him above the other two supports the position that he's above the other two?

Okay then. Don't even know how to respond to that.

me neither

 

[HuGo Sham]

meaning that a small gap like that at the back of a list of 100 prospects probably doesn't represent a tier difference between them, especially if you consider what was happening with each of these guys at the time that the opinions were gathered - momentum means alot with guys who have big ceilings and low floors. For example, watch Kirill Kaprizov fly up these lists this year

Like the post above mentions, there are other reputable lists that have Kapanen far ahead of the other two (which I also don't believe is the case)

My position is that these guys are close and that Lekhonen wouldn't have made the leafs

keep your position. i'll accept the people who actually make a living scouting hockey's position

 

[Canada4Gold]

keep your position. i'll accept the people who actually make a living scouting hockey's position

So in other words you'll accept Corey Pronman's position that Kapanen is a better prospect than Lehkonen?

Lists vary, if you choose your list based on which list fits your team the best you come off as just as much as homer as the people you argue against.

appeal to authority arguments don't work when there's opposite opinions from other people in similar positions.

 

[snipes]

Kapanen for Montour and Stoner is actually a good deal for the Leafs.

They could use a guy like Stoner on their 3rd pair, he's better than what they currently have. Montour has some intriguing upside as well.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

Wingers ain't shiet but hos and tricks

 

[Cor]

Kapanen for Montour and Stoner is actually a good deal for the Leafs.

They could use a guy like Stoner on their 3rd pair, he's better than what they currently have. Montour has some intriguing upside as well.

No it's not.

Kapanen for Montour sure. We aren't taking Stoner back for free.


We'd give up Holland for that package

 

[snipes]

No it's not.

Kapanen for Montour sure. We aren't taking Stoner back for free.


We'd give up Holland for that package

D >> W. I doubt the Ducks would do that deal straight up.

Stoner is better than guys like Hunwick. Yeah, he's a 3rd pairing Dman with zero offence, but he would bring some toughness to the backend. The Leafs D core is soft, a little toughness wouldn't hurt.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Ducks in a row]

No it's not.

Kapanen for Montour sure. We aren't taking Stoner back for free.


We'd give up Holland for that package

Holland ain't worth Montour for us even with Stoner being dumped.

 

[lindholmie]

imagine if montour was a leaf prospect lol. last game 1 goal and assist and like 12 shots on goal

 

[Canada4Gold]

Holland ain't worth Montour for us even with Stoner being dumped.

Leipsic for Stoner+Montour?

I see Kapanen and Montour as relative equals, and even if we could use Stoner like snipes suggested you don't just take a player with negative value paying higher than market value. (For example say Girardi was an upgrade on Hunwick, we don't just take him for that reason all reasons need to be considered, it would take a hell of a plus in Girardi's case)

So now that I've stopped going off on that tangent that was more like a reply to snipes, Montour > Leipsic but the difference made up by taking on Stoner.

 

[lindholmie]

only people saying montour is close to kap are leafs fans, thats for a reason lol

 

[Leafidelity]

I'd rather just keep Kapanen and see what he can become. You can keep Montour.

 

[snipes]

Leipsic for Stoner+Montour?

I see Kapanen and Montour as relative equals, and even if we could use Stoner like snipes suggested you don't just take a player with negative value paying higher than market value. (For example say Girardi was an upgrade on Hunwick, we don't just take him for that reason all reasons need to be considered, it would take a hell of a plus in Girardi's case)

So now that I've stopped going off on that tangent that was more like a reply to snipes, Montour > Leipsic but the difference made up by taking on Stoner.

For what it's worth, I was being sincere about Stoner actually being a guy who would hold value for you guys as a bottom pairing guy. He would be an upgrade.

I've followed you guys closely this year, and I'm familiar with Stoner being in the same division as ANA. He's the type of tough, big bodied, stay at home Dman you guys could use. He is who he is, a bottom pairing guy but the added toughness would help your back end and help you out on the PK.

But I do understand the negative value on his $3.25 M cap hit for the next two years.

 

[Stephen]

A prospect for prospect deal is not worth it at this time.

 

[LeafChief]

only people saying montour is close to kap are leafs fans, thats for a reason lol

lol lol lol sick

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Montour has 27 sog thru 4 games, he is thinking the game at a different level than everyone else thus far, he is the best player in the AHL thus far.

 

[Halla]

You're not sure if a panel of NHL scouts ranking him above the other two supports the position that he's above the other two?

Okay then. Don't even know how to respond to that.

a panel of scouts also had Kapanen as the best european player in his draft class (above nylander). many draft sites also had him at #1.
if this was a habs 20 year old absolutely ripping it up im sure you would change your tune pretty quick.

 

[Halla]

Montour has 27 sog thru 4 games, he is thinking the game at a different level than everyone else thus far, he is the best player in the AHL thus far.

better than the guy with 2x the points? probably not.

Leipisic 2.00ppg in the AHL is unreal

 

[Halla]

D >> W. I doubt the Ducks would do that deal straight up.

Stoner is better than guys like Hunwick. Yeah, he's a 3rd pairing Dman with zero offence, but he would bring some toughness to the backend. The Leafs D core is soft, a little toughness wouldn't hurt.

Just my thoughts on it.

your thoughts disregard the fact that stoner is overpaid, has term left, and the ducks desperately need to clear his cap with $0 coming back to have any chance at keeping fowler.

Stoner costs at minimum a 2nd rd pick just to dump. thats his value, negative 2nd

 

[Ducks Nation*]

better than the guy with 2x the points? probably not.

Leipisic 2.00ppg in the AHL is unreal

You realize Montour is a defensemen right? and has played 2 less games. Montour outscored him last year as a defensemen.