Value of: Kasperi Kapanen for a young Dman

[Canada4Gold]

For what it's worth, I was being sincere about Stoner actually being a guy who would hold value for you guys as a bottom pairing guy. He would be an upgrade.

I've followed you guys closely this year, and I'm familiar with Stoner being in the same division as ANA. He's the type of tough, big bodied, stay at home Dman you guys could use. He is who he is, a bottom pairing guy but the added toughness would help your back end and help you out on the PK.

But I do understand the negative value on his $3.25 M cap hit for the next two years.

Oh I know. I don't know much about him as a player but from what I've heard he's a competent bottom pairing guy. At the same price I'd prefer him over Hunwick.

But in a cap world you shouldn't take a player who has market negative value for free unless it's a clear enough upgrade you can ignore it(and negative value players rarely are clear enough upgrades), try to get a market value trade or don't take the player, and we're not really in the position where the upgrade is vital anyway.

And to Anaheim's credit they've figured out a way to fit everyone in at the moment, as tight as they are(and as unfortunate as it is for Despres, I liked him) so they're not forced to give in to the market price on paying to get rid of Stoner either.

So like I said for the right price I wouldn't mind taking Stoner but Anaheim doesn't have to give into that price, and it appears this Montour/Kapanen discussion is going nowhere anyway.

 

[snipes]

your thoughts disregard the fact that stoner is overpaid, has term left, and the ducks desperately need to clear his cap with $0 coming back to have any chance at keeping fowler

Oh yeah he has negative value. That contract is brutal.

I guess more what I'm saying is a Dman like Stoner, Emelin (those type of physical Dmen) could really help the Leafs.

 

[snipes]

Oh I know. I don't know much about him as a player but from what I've heard he's a competent bottom pairing guy. At the same price I'd prefer him over Hunwick.

But in a cap world you shouldn't take a player who has market negative value unless it's a clear enough upgrade you can ignore it(and negative value players rarely are clear enough upgrades), and we're not really oin the position where the upgrade is vital anyway.

And to Anaheim's credit they've figured out a way to fit everyone in at the moment, as tight as they are(and as unfortunate as it is for Despres, I liked him) so they're not forced to give in to the market price on paying to get rid of Stoner either.

So like I said for the right price I wouldn't mind taking Stoner but Anaheim doesn't have to give into that price, and it appears this Montour/Kapanen discussion is going nowhere anyway.

Yeah and you know what I didn't check your guys cap space either, I didn't realize you're that close to the cap. I assumed because of all the young guys you would have had way more room.

In any event, why don't you guys give Nielsen a shot? I've seen him lots and given my thoughts on him in his prospect thread. He's an upgrade over what you have on the bottom pairing, plus he's got a very heavy shot and good physical side to his game.

 

[Gsus]

Robert Hägg?

 

[Canada4Gold]

In any event, why don't you guys give Nielsen a shot? I've seen him lots and given my thoughts on him in his prospect thread. He's an upgrade over what you have on the bottom pairing, plus he's got a very heavy shot and good physical side to his game.

why not let him develop in the AHL? There's no real reason to have him up here now, we're not going to win the cup yet, do what's best for the players development, he's not in a position where he's forced his way up yet. He's looking good but not that good.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Robert Hägg?

Josh Leivo?

 

[snipes]

why not let him develop in the AHL? There's no real reason to have him up here now, we're not going to win the cup yet, do what's best for the players development, he's not in a position where he's forced his way up yet. He's looking good but not that good.

True, no point burning a year of his ELC either. I'm high on that kid, he's a sure fire NHLer. He'll play in the NHL for a long time, he's got a versatile enough skillset he'll find a home on a bottom or mid pairing down the road.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

It's really difficult to say be looking at stats in the AHL.
Kapanan was of junior age playing in the AHL last year and he didn't see great quality ice time. I'm sure he will this year.

Goals and assists in the AHL? Take a look at the scoring stats in the AHL at the end of the year. Every year it's the same. Check the top 20, half the guys are career AHLers. There's a fine line, but definite there...good junior, good AHLer, doesn't mean you even get a sniff in the NHL.

Most productive Dman in the AHL last year. Believe it was Brennan of the Marlies. Is he even playing in the NHL this year? He's a 27 year old career AHL, with just not enough NHL skills to be in the NHL or at least make an meaningful contribution in the NHL.

Not saying Montour or Kapanan are going to follow Brennan's career path, just saying if you depend on AHL scoring stats to determine, "Best Players", you will be inaccurate at least half the time.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

It's really difficult to say be looking at stats in the AHL.
Kapanan was of junior age playing in the AHL last year and he didn't see great quality ice time. I'm sure he will this year.

Goals and assists in the AHL? Take a look at the scoring stats in the AHL at the end of the year. Every year it's the same. Check the top 20, half the guys are career AHLers. There's a fine line, but definite there...good junior, good AHLer, doesn't mean you even get a sniff in the NHL.

Most productive Dman in the AHL last year. Believe it was Brennan of the Marlies. Is he even playing in the NHL this year? He's a 27 year old career AHL, with just not enough NHL skills to be in the NHL or at least make an meaningful contribution in the NHL.

Not saying Montour or Kapanan are going to follow Brennan's career path, just saying if you depend on AHL scoring stats to determine, "Best Players", you will be inaccurate at least half the time.

Considering Montour starting putting all his focus into hockey at age 18 from lacrosse (had scholarships to almost every school in the country) and since then has done this....

Its crazy how his hockey career has skyrocketed....

Plays Midget/junior B as a 16 year old...
Plays junior B as a 17 year old...
Plays junior B as a 18 year old...
Lights up the USHL as an older unknown guy(62 points in 60 games)....
then gets drafted to the NHL as a player 2 years older than most in his draft in 2nd round...
then back to USHL for a half a year due to NCAA complications(21 points in 17 games)...
Then plays NCAA last half of the year(20 points in 21 games)
then plays end of AHL season after his USHL/NCAA season(10 points in 14 games)...

Now has put up 63 points in 72 regular season games last season and so far this season and is an AHL allstar and a lot of fans say he is the best player in the AHL and should be in the NHL

CRAZY!!!!

Most people Ive known that are playing Junior B as a 18 year old know they are going nowhere in hockey and are just playing to screw around

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Yeah and you know what I didn't check your guys cap space either, I didn't realize you're that close to the cap. I assumed because of all the young guys you would have had way more room.

In any event, why don't you guys give Nielsen a shot? I've seen him lots and given my thoughts on him in his prospect thread. He's an upgrade over what you have on the bottom pairing, plus he's got a very heavy shot and good physical side to his game.

The reason the Leafs are so close to the cap this year, is that took on crappy contracts (for one year) to rid themselves of five years of Phanuef's contract. Took on Laich's contract to get a second rounder.

Still paying Dave Nonis's great trade for Tim Gleason, in buyout money this year and next.
1.2m cap retention for another 6 years of Kessel's deal. So next year the Leafs will be in a much better cap situation.

Neilson...you mentioned along with Dermot and Valiev could very well be NHLer, but not this year.
Kapanan was playing as a junior aged player in the AHL last year (European exception) so this year as 20 year old he should get big minutes in the AHL.
I feel the Leafs have no need to make trades this year, but come before Vegas draft there might be lots of movement.

 

[Randy Randerson]

You realize Montour is a defensemen right? and has played 2 less games. Montour outscored him last year as a defensemen.

I don't doubt that Montour is more valuable than Kapanen in a trade right now, but its hard to compare AHL performances of Kapanen/Leipsic to Montour this season and place one clearly above the others, they've all been ridiculous.

With a big season in the AHL, Kapanen's value will get back towards where he was expected to be coming into the draft, tremendously talented player. He has the look of a guy who has (non-franchise) 1st line upside to me and the floor is actually pretty high - seems to be willing to play a checking role and has the wheels to do that well

If the current trajectories continue I still think Montour is worth more, but Kap might actually be a good target for Anaheim given the strengths/needs of the team

If you haven't seen them, here's a link to the Marlies game recaps with highlights, Kapanen is fun to watch: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-marlies

This one was particularly nice: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...-named-ahl-player-of-the-week-toronto-marlies

 

[Halla]

Robert Hägg?

the ask from philly would be morin/sanheim, not the flyers 5th best D prospect

 

[Halla]

Yeah and you know what I didn't check your guys cap space either, I didn't realize you're that close to the cap. I assumed because of all the young guys you would have had way more room.

In any event, why don't you guys give Nielsen a shot? I've seen him lots and given my thoughts on him in his prospect thread. He's an upgrade over what you have on the bottom pairing, plus he's got a very heavy shot and good physical side to his game.

we arent really that close to the cap. none of the ltir relief has been used (have to go over to use it).

I dont see stoner as anything more than a slight upgrade over polak/hunwick/corrado. the leafs certaintly arent gonna do the ducks any favors.

Stoner, and the leafs cond. 2nd back for a contract (hunwick) and the ducks save 2.05 this year, 3.25 next

 

[FerrisRox]

So in other words you'll accept Corey Pronman's position that Kapanen is a better prospect than Lehkonen?

Pronman's list is *his* opinion. The Hockey News list is made up from a panel of actual NHL scouts.

I'm not sure what point you think you are making here, but I think you might have difficulty finding people that don't see comparing the ESPN prospect guy against a panel of National Hockey League professional scouts as a false equivilancy.

 

[FerrisRox]

better than the guy with 2x the points? probably not.

Leipisic 2.00ppg in the AHL is unreal

You get that Montour is a defenseman, right?

 

[Ducks Nation*]

You get that Montour is a defenseman, right?

and has played 2 less games

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Santini for Kapanen?

 

[FerrisRox]

Santini for Kapanen?

I don't think that's enough for Toronto to move Kapenen.

 

[91Stammer*]

IDK but why not help Anaheim with cap and capitalize on the occasion? I mean Stoner+Theodore for a prospect or 2nd would help both teams greatly.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I'm not trading Kapanen.

We have a couple years to draft develop, draft, sign, or trade some support for the big 3. Carrick looks like a good one too.

Reilly ________
Gardiner Zaitsev
_________ Carrick
Marincin

Sign Burns in UFA

Draft Liljegren or Foote etc.

Develop Dermott Corrado Neilsen Greenaway Loov Valiev

Trade for a guy like Hamonic or Trouba.

We have a lot of potential options. Just got to make moves strategically.