Kasperi Kapanen (Aberg/J Lindgren) Traded to Pittsburgh (15OV/Hallander/E Rod/Warf to Toronto)

[xlm34]

That's the thing. Does JR even negotiate when he makes trades? I'm honestly curious because it seems like the prices he pays are typically the seller's "high bid" and not the result of a continuous back and forth where both sides give a little.

It's like buying a house. The seller wants $500,000, the buyer only wants to pay $450,000, so they negotiate and eventually end up somewhere in the middle of those two numbers. But it seems like JR just immediately is willing to pay the seller's original ask without any bargaining down.

I think your house comparison is spot on. I don’t remember where I read it but basically JR comes in with what he thinks is a fair offer regardless of any circumstances and that’s pretty much it.

It’s why we got such a good deal for Staal when he got traded to Carolina.

 

[K Fleur]

Yeesh JR.

 

[KIRK]

He was a real threat in the low slot, net front. Lulela ran the same power-play structure as the Penguins do now, but instead of planting Hallander right in front of the net, they moved him about five feet further out to deflect pucks in the low slot. Super strong on his feet. Really good balance that makes it difficult to move his center of gravity. He eats pucks in the boards really well on cycles and retrievals. Underwhelming stuff from a shot perspective but he'll do something every once in awhile that is like, "where did that come from?" Overall, I pegged him as a safer bet. It's tough for forwards especially to transition to NA, but given his north/south style already, I don't think it's going to be a huge hurdle, or a hurdle at all.

It wouldn't shock me if Hallander played a key role on a 2nd line as ceilng, and rounded out your bottom six in worst case scenario. I don't think there's a lot of inherent risk in his game.

Gee thanks Jesse . . . any other thoughts on the trade?

P.S.: Loved your end of series breakdown. Saw the Isles do the same thing to the Flyers last night. Collapsed 5 low, and the Flyers D was ultra conservative, so it was 3 on 5 down low way, way too much whenever they'd try to press, just like the Pens versus Habs.

 

[Turin]

I don't think anyone is upset about moving the 1st and Hallander. It is really the value we got back that is upsetting.

These are the types of deals that make or break a franchise to be honest. And we saw it in the deal for Reaves. And we kind of are seeing it with the deal for Brassard and Sheary and Rodrigues.

Although I think the last two deserve merit based on the need and the price versus Reaves.

If they were so readily prepared to deal two consecutive first rounders they maybe could have done it for a star, so that’s kinda annoying.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

He was a real threat in the low slot, net front. Lulela ran the same power-play structure as the Penguins do now, but instead of planting Hallander right in front of the net, they moved him about five feet further out to deflect pucks in the low slot. Super strong on his feet. Really good balance that makes it difficult to move his center of gravity. He eats pucks in the boards really well on cycles and retrievals. Underwhelming stuff from a shot perspective but he'll do something every once in awhile that is like, "where did that come from?" Overall, I pegged him as a safer bet. It's tough for forwards especially to transition to NA, but given his north/south style already, I don't think it's going to be a huge hurdle, or a hurdle at all.

It wouldn't shock me if Hallander played a key role on a 2nd line as ceilng, and rounded out your bottom six in worst case scenario. I don't think there's a lot of inherent risk in his game.

ok thats actually a wider range than i expected.

he could be (value wise) anything from Hornqvist to Simon or anywhere in between.

 

[KIRK]

Except Domi is shitty at defense...not a defensive center at all..lol

You think that would stop JR?

 

[OswaldBates]

Those are pretty good stats. especially for Teenager in that league

UMMMMM yeah

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JR and Sully don't view JJ as anything less than a serviceable (or good) bottom pairing guy. Of course he'll still be on the team next season, because in their eyes, why in the world would they pay someone to take an effective player off their team?

Until those two are gone, JJ will remain a Penguin. I'm pretty confident of that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yep.

I will say this though . . . we've been talking in terms of a 2 year window. Well, Kapanen makes 3.2M per for the next two.

IF the play from this is to go all in addressing L3 and the bottom pairing AND to run Zucker-Sid-Kap and Jake-Geno-Rust, then I can kind of get that plan.

BUT . . . Jack Johnson ain't going anywhere, there won't be any systemic changes, and that won't be the line combos in the top 6 . . .

After all this, Kapanen's probably going to be toiling away on L3 on his off wing next to Hornqvist and whichever 3C JR brings in, isn't he? Jake/Sid/Simon is probably going to be L1, with Zucker and Rust flanking Geno on L2.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yep.

I will say this though . . . we've been talking in terms of a 2 year window. Well, Kapanen makes 3.2M per for the next two.

IF the play from this is to go all in addressing L3 and the bottom pairing AND to run Zucker-Sid-Kap and Jake-Geno-Rust, then I can kind of get that plan.

BUT . . . Jack Johnson ain't going anywhere, there won't be any systemic changes, and that won't be the line combos in the top 6 . . .

The funny part is I think this trade and the prospect system has enough in it that if we fire the coach mid season we could see some really good things from this squad.

And I think you honestly need a coach that is able to not play favorites with Crosby and maximize team success at this point. As you know, I've been harping on that with Sully since January.

 

[PensandCaps]

Do they bring Sheary back?

 

[Ryder71]

There are trades I hated more than this, but I do not like giving up 15th overall.

As far as Hallander goes, I am not very high on him.

I hope we keep Rust because that's a really solid top six.

I'm intrigued by Aberg but we don't even know if he'll be in NA next season.

We need to add speed AND SIZE. We're pretty small upfront.

 

[PensandCaps]

After all this, Kapanen's probably going to be toiling away on L3 on his off wing next to Hornqvist and whichever 3C JR brings in, isn't he? Jake/Sid/Simon is probably going to be L1, with Zucker and Rust flanking Geno on L2.

Nah Rust is gonna be traded for some garbage Defensemen.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Need D.K. Metcalf that will put them over the top now

This trade sucks. We needed to use that 15th to at the very least move some dead weight not prospects.

 

[JackFr]

Do they bring Sheary back?

Doubt it unless they move Hornqvist. I think we're gonna see:

Guentzel - Crosby - Kapanen
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Simon - McCann - Hornqvist
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev

At least as of now.

(Man putting Kapanen next to Sid is giving me real 2015 nostalgia)

 

[KIRK]

The funny part is I think this trade and the prospect system has enough in it that if we fire the coach mid season we could see some really good things from this squad.

And I think you honestly need a coach that is able to not play favorites with Crosby and maximize team success at this point. As you know, I've been harping on that with Sully since January.

You were very clear that they stopped being the Pittsburgh Penguins when Crosby returned and that Malkin got sent back to second fiddle status.

As I said, IF the top 6 pairs are Zucker-Kap and Jake-Rust, then it makes a lot more sense. I think Geno would work with either, which will be convenient since we know best case what Sully will do.

EDIT: I still think a lot of the problem is (a) systemic and (b) due to a lack of transition help from the blueline (Johnson kills any attempts to push play, and I'm not sure Pets didn't regress a bit last year in this regard).

 

[PensandCaps]

One thing about Aberg is that he is very skilled and fast, he put up a decent stat line next to Getzlaf, with 11 goals in 37 games.

His Defensive game is awful, you would have to shelter him on a top line with Sid.

 

[KIRK]

Doubt it unless they move Hornqvist. I think we're gonna see:

Guentzel - Crosby - Kapanen
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Simon - McCann - Hornqvist
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev

At least as of now.

(Man putting Kapanen next to Sid is giving me real 2015 nostalgia)

This top 6 is precisely the type of stupidity I expect from Sullivan.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Incidentally @Solzhenitsyn, here are a couple non-Pens takes on Hallander from contributors to the Athletic:

"Hallander’s one of those rare players who can play up and down a lineup and adjust his role to his linemates. Need him to drive a third line as its best player and have the puck a lot? He can do that. Need him to play off the puck on a second line where he’s not the most talented player? He can do that. Need an energy guy who can play fast and get in on the forecheck on your fourth line? He’s well-suited for that." - Scott Wheeler

“Hallander has been successful versus men for the last few years at varying levels after being a second-round pick in 2018. Hallander is a very intelligent and competitive player who has shown the ability to help both special teams. His skill and speed don’t pop, but he makes a lot of plays in the tough areas of the ice. My opinion is he projects as a bottom-six forward in the NHL, which is shared by a poll of NHL scouts now and at the time of his draft. He would not fit into the top tier of Toronto prospects such as Nicholas Robertson or Rasmus Sandin, but in the next group with the likes of Timothy Liljegren and Nick Abruzzese. His advanced play versus men in Sweden has him trending as a player who could help Toronto in the next year or two.” - Corey Pronman

That he's a pretty good bet to be an NHL contributor in fairly short order seems like a common impression. The main question's whether he's closer to a 2nd line complementary type or a bottom 6 utility knife.

 

[K Fleur]

That really is a lot to give up for Tyler Kennedy 2.0.

 

[KIRK]

After all this, Kapanen's probably going to be toiling away on L3 on his off wing next to Hornqvist and whichever 3C JR brings in, isn't he? Jake/Sid/Simon is probably going to be L1, with Zucker and Rust flanking Geno on L2.

That would be the other type of stupidity I'd expect from Sullivan.

 

[Will Hunting]

I think up and down you are really overrating Kapanen here. All of our issues stem from Kap not being a great player underneath the flashy speed. If Kapanen was the guy you're describing, things would be fine. But there's plenty of evidence saying he isn't.

I have watched quite a lot of Kap though, so I know who he is and how good he can be. A lot depends on fit. If he fits in our TOP6 then this is a good deal. He has the tools to be succesful here, for sure. Its interesting what happens next. I think Horny and Murray need to go now and hopefully we get some nice assets back. We needed a good RW for our top6 badly, I was so tired of Simon, Sheary etc.. Our TOP6 is beautiful now.

 

[Turin]

One thing about Aberg is that he is very skilled and fast, he put up a decent stat line next to Getzlaf, with 11 goals in 37 games.

His Defensive game is awful, you would have to shelter him on a top line with Sid.

If Sid didn’t want to play with Kessel he won’t want AHL Kessel.

 

[KIRK]

I have watched quite a lot of Kap though, so I know who he is and how good he can be. A lot depends on fit. If he fits in our TOP6 then this is a good deal. He has the tools to be succesful here, for sure. Its interesting what happens next. I think Horny and Murray need to go now and hopefully we get some nice assets back. We needed a good RW for our top6 badly, I was so tired of Simon, Sheary etc.. Our TOP6 is beautiful now.

He doesn't just have to fit in the top 6 for it to make sense.

The top 6 as a whole has to make sense.

As I said to @pixiesfanyo, IF the plan is Zucker-Kap and Jake-Rust pairs, then I get it.

BUT, I don't expect Sully to go that way (in fact I'd be stunned otherwise), and I'm still waiting to see where JR ships Rust (and I can't even say I'm half joking).

 

[Ryder71]

That really is a lot to give up for Tyler Kennedy 2.0.

KK is a bit better than that. Come on.

I just don't think we should have given up 15th overall. That pisses me off.