Player Discussion K'Andre Miller

[Draft Guru]

pay that man his money

 

[FlyguyOX]

Really curious of this new contract. Probably starts with a 6 no matter the length

 

[McRanger92]

Really curious of this new contract. Probably starts with a 6 no matter the length

Very little chance of that. Rangers can't afford it and if he bets on himself he could be pushing a Fox/Trouba AAV in 2-3 years.

 

[ReddestRum]

Very little chance of that. Rangers can't afford it and if he bets on himself he could be pushing a Fox/Trouba AAV in 2-3 years.

Hopefully we can come to a deal that makes him happy. Fox is a great offensive defenseman, but Miller is our best two-way D right now and it isn't even close.

 

[McRanger92]

Hopefully we can come to a deal that makes him happy. Fox is a great offensive defenseman, but Miller is our best two-way D right now and it isn't even close.

Fox is better than him defensively. Miller still makes a ton of positional mistakes. He's still got development to do but he has true superstar ability.

 

[bogans]

Hopefully we can come to a deal that makes him happy. Fox is a great offensive defenseman, but Miller is our best two-way D right now and it isn't even close.

Terrible take. Miller is bigger and more powerful, but Fox in amazing on both ends of the ice. He has not looked quite himself with Lindgren, but he is still an all-star #1 D-man, even with Mikkola.

 

[duhmetreE]

We would love a KAM Fox pairing but that destroys the rest of the d-groups transition.

This team goes as KAM goes tbh... specifically at even strength. If we somehow miraculously add another player like him or Fox, we're set. It's why I really wanted Chychrun.

 

[bleedblue94]

Fox is better than him defensively. Miller still makes a ton of positional mistakes. He's still got development to do but he has true superstar ability.

The difference is miller has the physical attributes to make up for a lot of his mistakes. Fox doesn't, which is what makes fox so damn impressive. He isn't a great skater, he isn't big, and he isn't very strong but he's so damn smart he is still a star. Miller doesn't have the same level of hockey sense (very few do) but he has physical skills that most don't have. I've said for almost two years that with time miller may turn into our version of hedman lite. As he continues to grow into the game and position mentally those mistakes should continue to lessen. Kid is going to make some mucho

We would love a KAM Fox pairing but that destroys the rest of the d-groups transition.

This team goes as KAM goes tbh... specifically at even strength. If we somehow miraculously add another player like him or Fox, we're set. It's why I really wanted Chychrun.

Most teams wish they had miller and fox, and here we are wanting a 3rd stud ha

 

[ReddestRum]

Fox is better than him defensively. Miller still makes a ton of positional mistakes. He's still got development to do but he has true superstar ability.

Terrible take. Miller is bigger and more powerful, but Fox in amazing on both ends of the ice. He has not looked quite himself with Lindgren, but he is still an all-star #1 D-man, even with Mikkola.

While Miller does have positional issues, this is also a team (especially defenseman + center) position issue. Fox has looked shaky as f*** in the D-zone lately, and his turnovers in the D-zone have been terrible. He has excellent take away ability, but has been turning it over on his zone clears or first out of zone passes for awhile now.

 

[duhmetreE]

Most teams wish they had miller and fox, and here we are wanting a 3rd stud ha

That's the point. We do not want to be like most teams.

 

[bleedblue94]

That's the point. We do not want to be like most teams.

Right, most teams don't even have a Miller and a fox. We are already well ahead.

We could get sorokin here to backup Igor as well while we are at it...

 

[ReddestRum]

The difference is miller has the physical attributes to make up for a lot of his mistakes. Fox doesn't, which is what makes fox so damn impressive. He isn't a great skater, he isn't big, and he isn't very strong but he's so damn smart he is still a star. Miller doesn't have the same level of hockey sense (very few do) but he has physical skills that most don't have. I've said for almost two years that with time miller may turn into our version of hedman lite. As he continues to grow into the game and position mentally those mistakes should continue to lessen. Kid is going to make some mucho


Most teams wish they had miller and fox, and here we are wanting a 3rd stud ha

With Lindgren as his partner, Fox has never really never had a need to be physical. Lindgren sort of creates that space for him. Can't wait until he gets back. We have some great D-tools, but I think our weak system kills us on D.

 

[duhmetreE]

Right, most teams don't even have a Miller and a fox. We are already well ahead.

We could get sorokin here to backup Igor as well while we are at it...

Don’t think we could afford that

 

[ReddestRum]

5.5 x 8?

 

[Peltz]

Hopefully we can come to a deal that makes him happy. Fox is a great offensive defenseman, but Miller is our best two-way D right now and it isn't even close.

Miller is great, but Fox has one of the highest hockey IQs in the game. If anyone has earned the benefit of the doubt for some recent bad play, it's Fox with Lindgren missing.

I like Miller, but I would never take him over Fox as our number 1 dman.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The difference is miller has the physical attributes to make up for a lot of his mistakes.

I don't really think that they're mistakes and its a common misconception here that I covered on the last page. His physical attributes allow him to play a certain way that most defensemen cannot play and since it isn't traditional "defense", people think that its bad defense when the opposite is actually true - Its pretty much what every defenseman in the league would do if they could.

He pressures up ice when the team doesn't have the puck instead of backing off which isn't conventional at all. I'm not talking about pinching to keep possession going in the OZ, he will straight up skate at people trying to carry the puck up ice. Every single one of our D would be toast if they tried to do this except for Miller.

He can do this because -

a. He can skate with anyone and has the reach to break up and kill rushes/opposition possession before they even have a chance to start. The goal of defense should be to kill anything before it has a chance to become dangerous and this is a much better option than backing off and having to block 239230923092032309 shots (what a bunch of people think good defense is and I'm not saying blocking a shot is bad, but if you have to block a lot of them then something is going terribly wrong.)​

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b. Even if the puck DOES get by him and the other team maintains possession, he's still more than mobile enough to get back.​

It's easy to think that when b happens, its bad defense and whatever (sometimes the decision that leads to b IS the wrong one) but the overwhelming majority of the time, it's just going to lead to the exact same shit that would happen if he played safe and just backed off. Even if he's only successful 3 out of every 10 attempts, I'd rather deal with 7 instances of potential sustained possession for the other team than 10 (and his success rate is higher than 30%, I just picked a number to illustrate this point.)

What he needs to stop doing are the following -

1. Burying his head and just firing the puck around the boards. Sometimes its his only option, but there are a ton of instances where better options are available (this is a problem with all of our non Fox D, which makes me think that it's just bad coaching.)​

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2. Relying on Trouba to start transition out of the DZ. When he carries the puck out and moves it he's way more successful at getting things going than asking Trouba to do it. Theres NO reason why he can't be a consistent 2 line carrier (someone who can carry the puck through the NZ and beyond center ice.) Asking him to cover all 3 is too much and those guys are really rare, but he doesn't need to be that guy either. But he should be doing the heavy lifting on his pair here, not the other way around.​

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3. Falling asleep in net front coverage. Your eyes can be on the puck, but you better know what else is happening around you.​

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[FlyguyOX]

5.5 x 8?

That would be a steal over the lifetime of the contract.

 

[ReddestRum]

Miller is great, but Fox has one of the highest hockey IQs in the game. If anyone has earned the benefit of the doubt for some recent bad play, it's Fox with Lindgren missing.

I like Miller, but I would never take him over Fox as our number 1 dman.

I never said Miller should replace Fox as the #1 D-man?

 

[Peltz]

I don't really think that they're mistakes and its a common misconception here that I covered on the last page. His physical attributes allow him to play a certain way that most defensemen cannot play and since it isn't traditional "defense", people think that its bad defense when the opposite is actually true - Its pretty much what every defenseman in the league would do if they could.

He pressures up ice when the team doesn't have the puck instead of backing off which isn't conventional at all. I'm not talking about pinching to keep possession going in the OZ, he will straight up skate at people trying to carry the puck up ice. Every single one of our D would be toast if they tried to do this except for Miller.

He can do this because -

a. He can skate with anyone and has the reach to break up and kill rushes/opposition possession before they even have a chance to start. The goal of defense should be to kill anything before it has a chance to become dangerous and this is a much better option than backing off and having to block 239230923092032309 shots (what a bunch of people think good defense is and I'm not saying blocking a shot is bad, but if you have to block a lot of them then something is going terribly wrong.)​

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b. Even if the puck DOES get by him and the other team maintains possession, he's still more than mobile enough to get back.​

It's easy to think that when b happens, its bad defense and whatever (sometimes the decision that leads to b IS the wrong one) but the overwhelming majority of the time, it's just going to lead to the exact same shit that would happen if he played safe and just backed off. Even if he's only successful 3 out of every 10 attempts, I'd rather deal with 7 instances of potential sustained possession for the other team than 10 (and his success rate is higher than 30%, I just picked a number to illustrate this point.)

What he needs to stop doing are the following -

1. Burying his head and just firing the puck around the boards. Sometimes its his only option, but there are a ton of instances where better options are available (this is a problem with all of our non Fox D, which makes me think that it's just bad coaching.)​

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2. Relying on Trouba to start transition out of the DZ. When he carries the puck out and moves it he's way more successful at getting things going than asking Trouba to do it. Theres NO reason why he can't be a consistent 2 line carrier (someone who can carry the puck through the NZ and beyond center ice.) Asking him to cover all 3 is too much and those guys are really rare, but he doesn't need to be that guy either. But he should be doing the heavy lifting on his pair here, not the other way around.​

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3. Falling asleep in net front coverage. Your eyes can be on the puck, but you better know what else is happening around you.​

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The issue is when he does miss players in the neutral zone and can't catch up it leads to an odd man rush. I'd rather have all players back than give up odd man rushes.

He and Trouba also get a little helter-skelter in front of their own crease at times, missing assignments.

I like the guy though and I agree we are lucky to have him. But sometimes I do think he plays it too fast and loose.

He's still far ahead of where he should to be for his age and level of experience and I wouldn't want him to change his game much. I just can't place him above Fox. I just can't. Fox is maybe the best defensemen we've ever had and can completely dominate whole games.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The issue is when he does miss players in the neutral zone and can't catch up it leads to an odd man rush. I'd rather have all players back than give up odd man rushes.

He and Trouba also get a little helter-skelter in front of their own crease at times, missing assignments.

Thats going to happen on occasion you have to live with it.

Slavin (who we'll see tonight) is the golden standard of defending this way (really defending in every way, he's a terrific defender) and even HE gets caught up ice sometimes. It's just the nature of the beast. Throwing everyone back at all times will result in more chances against and yield more GA, I can guarantee you that.

 

[ReddestRum]

The issue is when he does miss players in the neutral zone and can't catch up it leads to an odd man rush. I'd rather have all players back than give up odd man rushes.

He and Trouba also get a little helter-skelter in front of their own crease at times, missing assignments.

I like the guy though and I agree we are lucky to have him. But sometimes I do think he plays it too fast and loose.

He's still far ahead of where he should to be for his age and level of experience and I wouldn't want him to change his game much. I just can't place him above Fox. I just can't. Fox is maybe the best defensemen we've ever had and can completely dominate whole games.

As I mentioned before, Fox has had some really tough games lately. Early March to be precise. -7 in a 3 game stretch. I don't think anyone is saying they prefer Miller over Fox. I prefer Fox just for his offensive talent alone. However, Miller has been the dominant player (IMO) lately. He's a f***ing +11 in 5 games and sees less PP time than Laf (whom this board whines about the most not getting PP time).

I also want him to continue playing his game. Yes, sometimes he gets caught. Yes, sometimes he's out of position, but he's a D-man and is also relying on his wingers and center to read plays for cover in the D-zone since most D's will have to pressure opponents down low. Honestly, Zibby seems to be the only C consistently helping out the D in the slot.

If we can give our kid wingers leeway, and time, and the benefit out the doubt, I'm sure as hell going to give it to the kid who has to work twice as hard as his center, and thrice as hard as his wingers.

Not to mention he's had to adjust from being a born forward to a defenseman.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Still has a tendency to overskate the puck and whiff leading to goals against, but he's a stud

 

[Peltz]

As I mentioned before, Fox has had some really tough games lately. Early March to be precise. -7 in a 3 game stretch. I don't think anyone is saying they prefer Miller over Fox. I prefer Fox just for his offensive talent alone. However, Miller has been the dominant player (IMO) lately. He's a f***ing +11 in 5 games and sees less PP time than Laf (whom this board whines about the most not getting PP time).

I also want him to continue playing his game. Yes, sometimes he gets caught. Yes, sometimes he's out of position, but he's a D-man and is also relying on his wingers and center to read plays for cover in the D-zone since most D's will have to pressure opponents down low. Honestly, Zibby seems to be the only C consistently helping out the D in the slot.

If we can give our kid wingers leeway, and time, and the benefit out the doubt, I'm sure as hell going to give it to the kid who has to work twice as hard as his center, and thrice as hard as his wingers.

Not to mention he's had to adjust from being a born forward to a defenseman.

No arguments here. I agree.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Rough game for Miller today

 

[Whoot Whoot]

He needs to not pinch or leave the net