Player Discussion K'Andre Miller

[Hunter Gathers]

I think the answer is simpler.

Some people just have no idea wtf they're watching and are too arrogant to admit it even after its been laid out for them a zillion times.

I don't think arrogant is the right word, here. Brainrot is probably more accurate.

 

[Crease]

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Idk, card says he's good defense

I think this discussion is happening for the same reason it always happens - this boards thinks we're the worst defensive team of all-time and good defense is having literally zero breakdowns.

We have AV/Quinn PTSD.

I don’t know why some fans expect perfection or near perfection from defensemen. They are playing against NHL forwards, some of them future Hall of Famers. Arguably the greatest defenseman of all time, Nik Lidstrom, had more recorded giveaways than takeaways.

 

[bbny]

not only has he had a very strong year, he's 1 point away from 40. that's insanely impressive considering he was at 20 points last year, playing with a better Trouba, and with no major change to his on ice SH%. he is just organically much stronger offensively this year which is f***ing awesome to see.

He’s been very good offensively. Dynamic

 

[bbny]

View attachment 678184

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Idk, card says he's good defense

I think this discussion is happening for the same reason it always happens - this boards thinks we're the worst defensive team of all-time and good defense is having literally zero breakdowns.

We have AV/Quinn PTSD.

I’m not discounting these entirely, but aren’t there cards floating around that said Kravtsov was in the 90s defensively? These things almost always seem to be missing some context that simply might not be covered on paper.

The offensive rating here for Miller feels pretty low. 40+ pts mostly at ES is some gifted stuff. The defensive rating feels pretty high. JMO.

Thanks for the intelligible response btw.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I’m not discounting these entirely, but aren’t there cards floating around that said Kravtsov was in the 90s defensively? These things almost always seem to be missing some context that simply might not be covered on paper.

The offensive rating here for Miller feels pretty low. 40+ pts mostly at ES is some gifted stuff. The defensive rating feels pretty high. JMO.

Thanks for the intelligible response btw.

You're just wrong. Take the L and move on.

Re-evaluate how you watch the game since you're doing it wrong.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not discounting these entirely, but aren’t there cards floating around that said Kravtsov was in the 90s defensively? These things almost always seem to be missing some context that simply might not be covered on paper.

The offensive rating here for Miller feels pretty low. 40+ pts mostly at ES is some gifted stuff. The defensive rating feels pretty high. JMO.

Thanks for the intelligible response btw.

Miller's offensive rating feels a tad low here because he's elite at putting up points once we have the puck in the O-zone but he struggles with transition metrics across the board. If there's room for improvement, that's it.

The Kravtsov thing is probably just a sample folly. He's already down to the 59th percentile now that he's playing more.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

I love this dude

 

[IchabodCrane]

I think the better question is if they’ve ever seen Deangelo play defense.
Miller makes mistakes, but holy shit deangelo is bad at it.

I actually think Miller is pretty bad at D. He makes up for terrible positioning/ softish play/ and bad pinches with athleticism / long stick and tall body / speed.

I’ll admit that positioning and pinching are the hardest things to learn and Km started playing D very late in life. So there is still room for improvement there.

He only frustrates me bc he has the potential to be the best dman on the team, maybe in the league. Only thing I don’t ever see improving is his snarl. If we can inject some Chara anger into him… id be all for it

LGR

 

[The Gloaming]

We really missed his skating while he was out and it was very evident when he came back how important his ability to rush the puck is to our breakout. He's the kind of player that you just live with the bad - because the good more than cancels it out.

His ability to skate the puck through the NZ is what drew us the penalty that allowed Panarin to score the biggest goal in recent NYR memory.

 

[duhmetreE]

KAM Fox is the next evolution.

99 Offense.
99 Defense.

Almost like cheating

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I can't remember a player on this team who invites more bad analysis than Miller.

 

[Levitate]

He makes mistakes and sometimes doesn't read the play well but it doesn't really stand out overall as egregious in the scheme of NHL defensemen. He could definitely clean some things up but even the best in the league make lots of mistakes playing D, it's not a position that's possible to play mistake free.

I think he's usually a net positive on D because he's tough to get around, tough to consistently beat on the boards, etc. He probably gets away with some things because of his reach and skating but on the other hand it's kind of like...well those are tools he can use, so why tell him not to use them.

To me he's kind of the typical "makes some high visibility mistakes because he's out there doing a lot of things but when you boil it down to the numbers he provides good defense overall and good offense at this point as well"

 

[duhmetreE]

I think there's only one other defender in the league that can do what KAM does, when 'he's on'.... and even he is not close to KAMs toolset defensively. I keep repeating it, he has the toolset/capability to be the best shutdown defender in the modern era

I do not even think he's scratched his peak/potential yet. What does he look like in 2-3 years?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He makes mistakes and sometimes doesn't read the play well but it doesn't really stand out overall as egregious in the scheme of NHL defensemen. He could definitely clean some things up but even the best in the league make lots of mistakes playing D, it's not a position that's possible to play mistake free.

I think he's usually a net positive on D because he's tough to get around, tough to consistently beat on the boards, etc. He probably gets away with some things because of his reach and skating but on the other hand it's kind of like...well those are tools he can use, so why tell him not to use them.

To me he's kind of the typical "makes some high visibility mistakes because he's out there doing a lot of things but when you boil it down to the numbers he provides good defense overall and good offense at this point as well"

The bolded is 100% dead on and what irks me about some of the "analysis" in this thread.

IF he gets beat on a pinch and STILL finds his way back, then he didn't really do anything wrong. I'm not going to say that the pinch was the right call in EVERY single instance because sometime it just isn't (even in some cases where he does pinch successfully) but just because the puck squeezes by him doesn't mean that it was a bad read, and if he has support/is still able to get back into the play then its a nothing burger - its him playing to his strengths.

I don't even think he's a guy who gets roasted because he makes high visibility mistakes, I've seen him get blamed for things that aren't even close to his fault (the OT goal against Buffalo the other night for instance, was pinned on him by some in a situation where both forwards got split and beaten. One of the Carolina goals was debated to death a few pages ago.) Some people just have an agenda that they can't let go of for what ever reason.

I could cut a long ass reel of some of the "top" defensemen in this league making egregious mistakes. Wouldn't take me digging all that far back to find one that would make Fox look like a clown, despite the fact that he's the best 2 way defender in the league right now.

 

[eco's bones]

In one on one situations a puck carrier always has some advantages over a defender. He knows where he wants to go and he can also move it to one of his teammates. A defender has to react to everything he does.....always at least a split second behind.

That's also why size can be important but also timing, also skating. Fox is one of the best in the league at timing things and Miller's skating ability is one of the best in the league to help him recover.....his size and reach then are huge assets as well. The guy is a f***ing stud. Not to get me wrong I love both Trouba and Lindgren their competitiveness, the fire they have but to me Fox, Miller and Schneider 5 years from now should all be great players on our D.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Miller sometimes is so good and his athleticism is scary. He does also tend to make sone poor decisions with the puck. Still a kid and will grow into a better defender

 

[ReddestRum]

Miller sometimes is so good and his athleticism is scary. He does also tend to make sone poor decisions with the puck. Still a kid and will grow into a better defender

I think he does he best work off the rush from the D-end. Last night was unfortunate, but Miller wasn't alone with his f***up. Bread and Lindgren's turnovers both led to goals against. We have a few more games to clean up before playoffs, but we'll see.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Let's not forget he usually plays against the other teams best players in his shutdown role.

 

[ReddestRum]

Let's not forget he usually plays against the other teams best players in his shutdown role.

Yeah, I think he'll be fine. Just needs to work on his decision-making when deciding to make a move. Positioning too.

 

[IchabodCrane]

He is literally getting worse.

 

[nyr2k2]

He is literally getting worse.

Young players don't usually progress in a linear fashion. He'll be completely fine.

Adam Fox has stretches of games where he looks terrible.

 

[Mike in Houston]

His contract is getting cheaper. Which I'm totally fine with at this point.

 

[eco's bones]

He wasn't good tonight but as a team (with the exception of Shesterkin) the Rangers were sleepwalking a lot through this one. The game meant a lot more to the Sabres who were desperate to keep hope alive.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I actually think Miller is pretty bad at D. He makes up for terrible positioning/ softish play/ and bad pinches with athleticism / long stick and tall body / speed.

I’ll admit that positioning and pinching are the hardest things to learn and Km started playing D very late in life. So there is still room for improvement there.

He only frustrates me bc he has the potential to be the best dman on the team, maybe in the league. Only thing I don’t ever see improving is his snarl. If we can inject some Chara anger into him… id be all for it

LGR

There was a series of plays against pittsburg in millers 2nd season, where crosby had the puck behind the net, with facing the boards, and he was shifting back and forth, and miller was shadowing him and pressuring him.
Miller has elite athletism, and while he isnt always in the perfect position, he absolutely can erase a forward.
Theres room for improvement, but he's also already a top 4, who flashes top pair D.

Miller doesn't throw big hits, but he also doesn't need to, whens the last time you watched fox throw a big hit? Miller pushes guys around, but he never needs to lay someone out, but if he did it'd be worse than trouba's hits.

Tonight I didnt love his play, and almost was concerned that he may have an injury, there were a bunch of plays that he usually has no problem making, that he'd fumble or just handle incorrectly.

 

[bbny]

I don't even care about a random puck bobble that led to the bad goal against tonight. It's a crappy bounce with a bouncing puck. You'd like to see him settle it down and make a good play, but it happens to everyone from time to time and doesn't have any bearing on the ability to play consistently good defense.

My gripes have always been, and still remain, about defensive positioning and bad choices in coverage, which do have bearing on being able to play consistently good defense.