Player Discussion K'Andre Miller

[ecemleafs]

wish we didnt give up that 48th overall pick to move up to pick kandre. lot of value with that 2nd rounder.

 

[kinger8998]

I think alot of people need to understand the different between being an elite defenseman and a Norris potential defenseman. The Norris has become an award for a player who happens to play the position of defense that plays PP, gets significant points because of it, and also isn't so bad at defense that you can't make an arguement he somewhat deserves it.

Miller, yes, elite potential, but will never be a Norris candidate because Fox is and always will be the #1PP guy. Miller may very well be a 40 point defenseman at even strength and will garner some votes because hes a hell of a player and a hell of a defenseman, but Norris calibre requires PP1 minutes and PP1 point production, which Miller will never have.

Doesn't mean he won't develop into a #1 dman on 28/32 NHL teams, but nowadays theres a difference between a #1 dman and a Norris dman. It sucks, and it shouldn't be that way, but it's true.

This isn't to temper expectations, because Miller has unlimited upside. But any fan of another team reading them and fans of our own team look at this fanbase like tools because we say sh*t like "Miller is a Norris potential defenseman".

I love him, love his potential and think he will be a stud for a long time. But he'll never win a Norris, or get anymore attention than a guy like Slavin or Toews do. Both fantastic defensemen, but in CAR its been Hamilton or Tony or now Burns getting PP1 and in COL its Makar. Like Miller, they're all top end transition and defensive defenseman with 5v5 offensive talents, but while they may finish 7-10 in Norris voting, they're getting fringe votes, not 1st place votes, therefore while they are greta players, they are not Norris potential.

I love Miller, but gotta be realistic. Hes #1D potential, not Norris D potential. We can argue the difference between and which we'd rather have (having both sounds good to me, think they both are equally valuable in their different ways), but they are not the same, even if they are "as good"

 

[RickChartraw]

love seeing him take the body more.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

. Like Miller, they're all top end transition and defensive defenseman with 5v5 offensive talents, but while they may finish 7-10 in Norris voting, they're getting fringe votes, not 1st place votes, therefore while they are greta players, they are not Norris potential.

I love Miller, but gotta be realistic. Hes #1D potential, not Norris D potential. We can argue the difference between and which we'd rather have (having both sounds good to me, think they both are equally valuable in their different ways), but they are not the same, even if they are "as good"

Even tho he may not check the arbitrary criteria to get 1st place votes, if he's so good he's actually getting votes, I'd call that Norris caliber. Kind of like how you don't have to win the cup to be considered a legit contender

 

[kinger8998]

Even tho he may not check the arbitrary criteria to get 1st place votes, if he's so good he's actually getting votes, I'd call that Norris caliber. Kind of like how you don't have to win the cup to be considered a legit contender

Fair enough, but by that classification Chris Tanev got a Norris vote last year. Wild stuff. It was a 5th place vote, and it was only 1 so an extreme comparison. Just had to laugh at that.

I get your point though, if he's not PP1 and the points that warrant 1st place votes, yet hes still gettign attention, speaks to how good he is. Thats a fair argument

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Fair enough, but by that classification Chris Tanev got a Norris vote last year. Wild stuff. It was a 5th place vote, and it was only 1 so an extreme comparison. Just had to laugh at that.

I get your point though, if he's not PP1 and the points that warrant 1st place votes, yet hes still gettign attention, speaks to how good he is. Thats a fair argument

Yea, exactly. Not that literally every1 who gets votes would count automatically.

Some people might get lucky with a random vote or two in a single szn.

Just like how not every team that makes it to the conference finals is automatically considered a true contender. If ur getting multiple votes especially each year though? If youre getting to the semi and conference finals each szn? It's a good sign you belong

 

[n8]

welp, after the Samuelsson and Sanheim payouts, I am having a hard time seeing us resigning K'Andre for anything long term under $5M AAV.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

welp, after the Samuelsson and Sanheim payouts, I am having a hard time seeing us resigning K'Andre for anything long term under $5M AAV.

Sanheim's contract is his 3rd one so it isn't really comparable.

Samuelsson's 100% f***s us over though.

 

[bleedblue94]

Sanheim's contract is his 3rd one so it isn't really comparable.

Samuelsson's 100% f***s us over though.

It does affect the narrative that d men that don't put up points don't get paid. 6.25m per for a guy w a career high of 35pts who isn't terribly great defensively. Woof

 

[GAGLine]

It does affect the narrative that d men that don't put up points don't get paid. 6.25m per for a guy w a career high of 35pts who isn't terribly great defensively. Woof

Sanheim got an 8 year deal and they are all UFA years. It has no bearing on what Miller will get on a bridge deal as an RFA.

 

[bleedblue94]

Sanheim got an 8 year deal and they are all UFA years. It has no bearing on what Miller will get on a bridge deal as an RFA.

But it certainly has bearing on your point of trying to justify the Tory Krug contract and your argument that people that put up offensive numbers get big money regardless of their 5v5 contributions and defensive abilities. So in that way yes, it is completely relevant. Miller is going to get paid, the fans on this message board aren't the only ones that know that he is an elite player regardless of how many years he's been in the league.

 

[GAGLine]

But it certainly has bearing on your point of trying to justify the Tory Krug contract and your argument that people that put up offensive numbers get big money regardless of their 5v5 contributions and defensive abilities. So in that way yes, it is completely relevant. Miller is going to get paid, the fans on this message board aren't the only ones that know that he is an elite player regardless of how many years he's been in the league.

I thought you were done with this argument. My argument was that guys who don't put up numbers don't get paid as much as those who do.

Anywho, that's why Sanheim got 6.25 mil instead of 8+. Are you going to argue that Miller is going to get a similar number to what Sanheim got? On an 8 year deal, he probably will, but he isn't signing an 8 year deal. So what was your point again?

I've consistently said that Miller will get a deal similar to what Dobson got. I guess we'll see when he gets re-signed.

 

[bleedblue94]

I thought you were done with this argument. My argument was that guys who don't put up numbers don't get paid as much as those who do.

Anywho, that's why Sanheim got 6.25 mil instead of 8+. Are you going to argue that Miller is going to get a similar number to what Sanheim got? On an 8 year deal, he probably will, but he isn't signing an 8 year deal. So what was your point again?

I've consistently said that Miller will get a deal similar to what Dobson got. I guess we'll see when he gets re-signed.

Krug got 6.5 per as an older player, not 8+, 6.5.

And I have consistently said the dobson deal is impossible unless someone with a large salary is jettisoned this summer, not to mention miller is just better in general

 

[duhmetreE]

Kakko got a little less than Chytil's bridge.

KAM will get roughly what Lindgren got.... Barring a offensive breakout this season.

 

[bleedblue94]

Kakko got a little less than Chytil's bridge.

KAM will get roughly what Lindgren got.... Barring a offensive breakout this season.

comparing kakko's impact through last year to miller's already at this point is completely disingenuous. if kakko was as much of an impact player as miller has been then kakko gets much more than chytil's bridge.

people are talking about miller nationally after just two games this year. the secret is out on him.

 

[duhmetreE]

comparing kakko's impact through last year to miller's already at this point is completely disingenuous. if kakko was as much of an impact player as miller has been then kakko gets much more than chytil's bridge.

people are talking about miller nationally after just two games this year. the secret is out on him.

is that what I did? Or did I compare him to Lindgren?

2 or 3 years @ $3.5M. The sticking point may be the 3rd year... but the baseline will be Lindgren, or imo that's what Drury will be targeting.

 

[bleedblue94]

is that what I did? Or did I compare him to Lindgren?

2 or 3 years @ $3.5M. The sticking point may be the 3rd year... but the baseline will be Lindgren, or imo that's what Drury will be targeting.

you brought up kakko coming in under chytil's bridge as a reason to suggest miller will get lindgren's deal. an underperforming kakko and what he got on a bridge in relation to chytil is irrelevant to what miller will get. that is what i am saying. miller and the idea of an offer sheet scares me more than maybe any other player that has been an option bc he is a unicorn with his size, speed, and skating. with the rangers situation this summer I pray drury gets him signed as quickly as possibly to a deal to ensure we dont go down that path.

 

[duhmetreE]

you brought up kakko coming in under chytil's bridge as a reason to suggest miller will get lindgren's deal. an underperforming kakko and what he got on a bridge in relation to chytil is irrelevant to what miller will get. that is what i am saying. miller and the idea of an offer sheet scares me more than maybe any other player that has been an option bc he is a unicorn with his size, speed, and skating. with the rangers situation this summer I pray drury gets him signed as quickly as possibly to a deal to ensure we dont go down that path.

I disagree. The difference in value between Kakko and Chytil vs Lindgren and KAM is not that far off. KAM has been more valuable, that's why I said $3.5M

As of now. If KAM takes off, there might be a problem.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He is so good guy

 

[mas0764]

Kakko got a little less than Chytil's bridge.

KAM will get roughly what Lindgren got.... Barring a offensive breakout this season.

On a bridge deal?

What would 7 years cost us?

As of now. If KAM takes off, there might be a problem.

They should do it now.

Long term deal. What does he want? Get it signed before the end of next month.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He is so good guy

Every time you say that you bat 1.000, I'm going to remind you that you called him the next Skjei.

On a bridge deal?

What would 7 years cost us?



They should do it now.

Long term deal. What does he want? Get it signed before the end of next month.

7 year deal? mid 6's at least.

The problem with this mindset is that he needs to want to sign right now too. I can guarantee that his agent would advise against it and thats probably the smart play.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Every time you say that you bat 1.000, I'm going to remind you that you called him the next Skjei.

But I like Skjei, that's a compliment

 

[LoveGoons]

Listen, HEDMAN is a very high bar, but Miller is on a way longer development curve than him.
Hedman has probably been a DMan his entire hockey life and started playing pro at 17.
Miller has been a Dman for what 6 or 7 years? And turned pro at 20.
It's hard to compare Miller's curve to ANY current NHLer because converting to D so late is pretty rare, and it's rarer still for someone who did it to be an NHL DMan. I honestly think we have to wait for him to actually plateau before we know what he is. He's an unusual case.

Miller has been a little softee to start season. He need to play his size at least.. But he did the same thing last year. Hopefully he turn it around

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Miller has been a little softee to start season. He need to play his size at least.. But he did the same thing last year. Hopefully he turn it around

You need to build a time machine to the 70s.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Re-drafting the NHL class of 2018: Brady Tkachuk, Quinn Hughes rise

Corey Pronman re-ranks the top prospects from the NHL Draft class of 2018.

theathletic.com

2018 re-draft on the Athletic.

Pronman has KAM listed as a "Projected bubble-top and middle of the lineup" player at #9, with Bouchard, Dobson & Fehervary above him in the "Projected top of the lineup" tier.

Fehervary is above him? Thats insane.

To me KAM could top out as an All-Star with his skillset. He's also had 20+ playoff games under his belt playing in the top pair for 2+ seasons. He's already surpassed "bubble top".