Player Discussion Kaiden Guhle

[Estimated_Prophet]

A lot of people thinks here that Guhle will probably become a steady 40 pts defenseman. I don’t believe it one second. He is a really good defender, but he won’t get a ton of point. A kind of Brett Pesce. I never saw, A player from the WHL scoring less in WHL than the NHL, in term of PPG. This league inflates numbers.

He very likely will not put up big points due to PP1 not being available but you are underestimating his skill level. Nobody is saying that he is going to score close to 80 points in the NHL which is the pace that he was on in junior but he absolutely has the skill to be a 40+ dman if he is given PP1 minutes. He was on par with Matheson 5 vs 5 but did not have the power play numbers due entirely to opportunity. He was also on his off hand for almost the entire season which is much harder to create offence from the breakout. Why are people still acting like he was a 40 point player in junior? He was dominant in his D+2 after missing his entire D+2. He already reached 40 points prior to even being drafted.

Guhle has high end mobility with a great wrist shot and a great slap shot and to arbitrarily limit him to becoming a low scoring dman is ludicrous after being a ppg dman in junior and a top pick in the WHL priority draft. The kid absolutely has the potential, to what degree he realizes that is yet to be determined.

 

[Hins77]

He very likely will not put up big points due to PP1 not being available but you are underestimating his skill level. Nobody is saying that he is going to score close to 80 points in the NHL which is the pace that he was on in junior but he absolutely has the skill to be a 40+ dman if he is given PP1 minutes. He was on par with Matheson 5 vs 5 but did not have the power play numbers due entirely to opportunity. He was also on his off hand for almost the entire season which is much harder to create offence from the breakout. Why are people still acting like he was a 40 point player in junior? He was dominant in his D+2 after missing his entire D+2. He already reached 40 points prior to even being drafted.

Guhle has high end mobility with a great wrist shot and a great slap shot and to arbitrarily limit him to becoming a low scoring dman is ludicrous after being a ppg dman in junior and a top pick in the WHL priority draft. The kid absolutely has the potential, to what degree he realizes that is yet to be determined.

I don’t see a lot of creativity in Guhle game. The reason he is not on the PP and he doesnt have a heavy slapshot. he is good on the rush thought. Hutson will probably be in front of him soon to play on the PP.
josh Brook had nice number, and even better numbers than Guhle. After D1. points are irrrelevant.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They're not trading Guhle, that's really it.

Nor should they.

 

[BLONG7]

Not hard to see habs fans have no patience with certain players. Some fans, not all...

 

[Mrb1p]

Not hard to see habs fans have no patience with certain players. Some fans, not all...

Crazy that Guhle of all people is a player fans would turn on. He does everything right? I don't understand.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Crazy that Guhle of all people is a player fans would turn on. He does everything right? I don't understand.

I haven't read the entire thread , are people turning on him or just saying he's gonna be a #3-4?

 

[Mrb1p]

I haven't read the entire thread , are people turning on him or just saying he's gonna be a #3-4?

They're the same thing. He's played first pair on his offside and produced at a higher clip than many top pair Ds while playing the 6th toughest minutes in the NHL.

If you believe Guhle is a #4 you're a dumbass that thinks a 22 YO is going to regress significantly.

It's just not an opinion rooted in reality and probably stems from years of being bad and beta cuck attitude where one can't have anything good and everyone else is better.

Either there's like 50 #4 Ds and 2-3 1Ds or the standard we apply to our players isn't the same as the league does to theirs.

/rant over but I will do it again.

 

[Mrb1p]

Reminder that Kaiden Guhle had 3 less 5v5 points than Mortiz Seider, I'm 12 less games.
A much better P/60 and an even better Primary point/60.
A similar hit, blocked shots, PIM diff, giveaway a similar GF% and number of shots taken.

Now I think Moritz is better than Guhle, that's not the debate. The debate is why is Seider seen as a stud 1D while we're debating whether Guhle COULD MAYBE be a #3-4?

Asinine and it just shows how pejorative slurred a lot of people are.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Like I said earlier I don't really understand why we're just supposed to accept the premise that he "can't produce". He has 40P in 114 career games at 22 y/o and mostly playing in important matchup roles without cheating for offence and getting next to no PP time. He's inside the top 60 dmen at EV P/60, sure he's not gonna be Erik Karlsson but in the context of his deployment there's very little to complain about with his offence so far and there is clearly more to be unlocked with his tools as well.

He's gonna end up playing with Reinbacher on our key matchup pair where he's going to be a consistent ~40P guy in his prime and hit somewhere in the ~55P range in years where he gets significant PP time. Posting this now so nobody can claim it was some bolt from the blue that nobody could have ever seen coming when it happens.

 

[The Great Weal]

Guhle had as many ES pts as Matheson. He has offensive upside for sure

I mean he didn't. Matheson had 32 EVP in 82 games while Guhle had 22 in 70 games. Savard also had more than Guhle in 10 fewer games.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I mean he didn't. Matheson had 32 EVP in 82 games while Guhle had 22 in 70 games. Savard also had more than Guhle in 10 fewer games.

Thanks , revoking my like from his post , fake news

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean he didn't. Matheson had 32 EVP in 82 games while Guhle had 22 in 70 games. Savard also had more than Guhle in 10 fewer games.

Referencing 5v5 points where Guhle had 19/70 to Mathesons 21/82. Evp include 3v3, 4v4.

 

[The Great Weal]

Referencing 5v5 points where Guhle had 19/70 to Mathesons 21/82. Evp include 3v3, 4v4.

Lol okay. We could also look at production only on Tuesdays where Guhle might have more points.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol okay. We could also look at production only on Tuesdays where Guhle might have more points.

Dishonest at best. 5v5 are the hardest points to come by after PK

How else are we to compare the offensive production of a player that gets no easy deployment like Guhle? Comparing their EV numbers means you give a guy like Matheson a 3v3 and 4v4 handicap because he plays more minutes there. It's basic statistics, really, removal of outlier statistic and unequal events.

 

[The Great Weal]

Dishonest at best. 5v5 are the hardest points to come by after PK

How else are we to compare the offensive production of a player that gets no easy deployment like Guhle? Comparing their EV numbers means you give a guy like Matheson a 3v3 and 4v4 handicap because he plays more minutes there. It's basic statistics, really, removal of outlier statistic and unequal events.

David Savard led our dmen in 5v5 points, does that make him our best offensive dman? Maybe we should play him on PP1 instead of Matheson and definitely ahead of Guhle.

The dishonesty is pretending that he and Matheson are comparable offensively at this stage in their careers.

 

[the valiant effort]

Big Play David has routinely shown with his dangles that he should be given PP1 time

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I'm not Guhle's no. 1 fan, but I am intrigued as to why he's been singled out for trade. The only possible reason is someone thinks he'll end up being damaged goods due to some bad tendencies (i.e., keep your head up son), then at least it's in the realm of plausible reasoning.

I don't even care about isolating his 5 on 5 production or anything, even if he topped out as a 30 point player I would be more than fine with it so long as his defensive and transition games continue trajecting upwards. If the rebuild goes anywhere near projections, we won't need him to carry the offensive load.

 

[Mrb1p]

David Savard led our dmen in 5v5 points, does that make him our best offensive dman? Maybe we should play him on PP1 instead of Matheson and definitely ahead of Guhle.

The dishonesty is pretending that he and Matheson are comparable offensively at this stage in their careers.

There's a reason he's called Big Play Dave league wide. I have no doubts he could get 40 + points if he were to be used a la Matheson, nor do I doubt Guhle would. A lot of NHL Ds would have a lot more points would they be allowed to play 4 minutes of PP a game. Savard did really well early on playing on the 2nd PP in CB.

I digress though, of course Matheson is the best point producer right now, especially at 3v3 and 4v4 where he's one of the better Ds in the league offensively.

I'm pretty sure both Guhle and Savard could bring at list similar levels of offense on the PP.

Also it should be noted that the year before they all had similar stats at 5v5, pretty much indicating it was not a fluke season.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I don’t see a lot of creativity in Guhle game. The reason he is not on the PP and he doesnt have a heavy slapshot. he is good on the rush thought. Hutson will probably be in front of him soon to play on the PP.
josh Brook had nice number, and even better numbers than Guhle. After D1. points are irrrelevant.

Guhle has a very good slap shot and the only reason that he wasn't getting PP1 time is because Matheson was blocking him. I don't necessarily think he is an ideal PP1 QB anyways but I think that he would be decent at it. He is more of a PP2 option on a team with a good PPP1 QB but I am not confident that he will be that in Montreal with Hutson and Mailloux knocking on the door as well as Reinbacher, Xhekaj and Engstrom all having real potential at the position as well.

I am definitely not a stat guy but you can't go ahead and call points irrelevant when you just finished incorrectly stating that he was only a 40 point scorer in junior so why would he score more in the NHL. Of course points in junior hockey do not always equate to points in the NHL in a linear fashion but they are an indication of skill. Brook is a terrible example as his stats were inflated on Moose Jaw teams that scored a ton more than Guhle's Raiders ever did and more than the Oil Kings did as well. This is a fallacy ridden comparative as citing Josh Brook's inability to translate his junior production to the NHL is no more valid than singularly citing John Carlson's ability to successfully do so.

At the end of the day, you have your opinion and I have mine on Guhle's offensive upside although I suspect that we are closer to agreement than disagreement on what we believe his ultimate offensive output will be in Montreal.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I mean he didn't. Matheson had 32 EVP in 82 games while Guhle had 22 in 70 games. Savard also had more than Guhle in 10 fewer games.

When you adjust for the missing games the gap is only 32-26 and then adjust for time on ice......they are awfully close.

 

[Hins77]

Guhle has a very good slap shot and the only reason that he wasn't getting PP1 time is because Matheson was blocking him. I don't necessarily think he is an ideal PP1 QB anyways but I think that he would be decent at it. He is more of a PP2 option on a team with a good PPP1 QB but I am not confident that he will be that in Montreal with Hutson and Mailloux knocking on the door as well as Reinbacher, Xhekaj and Engstrom all having real potential at the position as well.

I am definitely not a stat guy but you can't go ahead and call points irrelevant when you just finished incorrectly stating that he was only a 40 point scorer in junior so why would he score more in the NHL. Of course points in junior hockey do not always equate to points in the NHL in a linear fashion but they are an indication of skill. Brook is a terrible example as his stats were inflated on Moose Jaw teams that scored a ton more than Guhle's Raiders ever did and more than the Oil Kings did as well. This is a fallacy ridden comparative as citing Josh Brook's inability to translate his junior production to the NHL is no more valid than singularly citing John Carlson's ability to successfully do so.

At the end of the day, you have your opinion and I have mine on Guhle's offensive upside although I suspect that we are closer to agreement than disagreement on what we believe his ultimate offensive output will be in Montreal.

Right, I would add I would take a Brett Pesce anyday in a week on my team. So when I compare him to Guhle, this is because I value Pesce a lot. I see more Guhle as a shutdown dman, with a great speed, rush sometime the play and crazy but I think he has a better wrist shot than slapshot. Get around 25/30 points. The 3rd best dman on a contender. This is how I value Guhle. A contract around 4/5 millions per year would be perfect

 

[junyab]

Do we know if a player who gets solid 5v5 Pts automatically means he'll be successful on the PP?!

I'm not joining the debate on either side, but I have a feeling the above isn't an exact science.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Do we know if a player who gets solid 5v5 Pts automatically means he'll be successful on the PP?!

I'm not joining the debate on either side, but I have a feeling the above isn't an exact science.

Stats alone are never a good way to determine anything in hockey.

 

[The Great Weal]

When you adjust for the missing games the gap is only 32-26 and then adjust for time on ice......they are awfully close.

So explain David Savard outscoring Guhle while playing fewer games. Does that make him our best offensive dman?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Do we know if a player who gets solid 5v5 Pts automatically means he'll be successful on the PP?!

I'm not joining the debate on either side, but I have a feeling the above isn't an exact science.

Guhle on the PP is just an insane hill to die on. We have Hutson. We have Mailloux. We have Matheson. Engstrom is also a gifted offensive defenseman.

There's not a future on the PP for Guhle, which works for us because that's 3-6 additional minutes a night he can play 5 on 5