Player Discussion Kaiden Guhle

[Estimated_Prophet]

Right, I would add I would take a Brett Pesce anyday in a week on my team. So when I compare him to Guhle, this is because I value Pesce a lot. I see more Guhle as a shutdown dman, with a great speed, rush sometime the play and crazy but I think he has a better wrist shot than slapshot. Get around 25/30 points. The 3rd best dman on a contender. This is how I value Guhle. A contract around 4/5 millions per year would be perfect

I would suggest that he is way too young to limit him to a #3 on a contender although that is still a very valuable asset. He absolutely has 1st pairing upside imo and we will know when he is between 25-28.

 

[Jaynki]

I'm not Guhle's no. 1 fan, but I am intrigued as to why he's been singled out for trade.

Its not about Guhle more than it is about having Hutson, Matheson as top 4 LDs and Xhekaj who is better suited and exploited in the bottom pair than Guhle, obviously being a worse player too.

Guhle is probably our biggest trade bait that we could afford to trade.

Now, with the selection of Demidov, there is no more urgency for star offensive talent. There is also no urgency to trade Guhle and he can be used on the right or above Hutson/Matheson.

It always been more about the context (depth at LD and the need for offense and Guhle value) than it has been against any downside on Guhle.

 

[Canadienna]

I'm not Guhle's no. 1 fan, but I am intrigued as to why he's been singled out for trade.

I'm in no way in favour of trading Guhle, but he hasn't been singled out. All of Matheson, Guhle, Struble and Harris have been floated in trade proposals all summer.

Also the vast majority of this thread is people freaking out over the idea of trading him, as opposed to people wanting to trade him.

 

[Habs7631]

I mean everyone can get traded for the right price I guess. But Guhle should only be available in a trade package returning a true top line offensive player. He obviously will not fetch a superstar tier forward, but I’m talking someone along the lines of Aho/Tkachuk/Boldy/Stutzle/Raymond/Byfield/Keller.

You can miss me with trading Guhle for a Necas/Zegras type player.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Guhle is pretty much an untouchable

In his prime, I suspect he's going to be one of the best dman in the league at shutting down oppositions. Mailloux will likely be his long term partner, so I could see Guhle scoring 35-40 pts per season without any pp time.

 

[JianYang]

Regardless of guhle's offensive upside, he is someone I consider part of the puzzle for montreal.

I see a case being made that he's expendable and I completely disagree.

 

[Andrei79]

Guhle is pretty much an untouchable

In his prime, I suspect he's going to be one of the best dman in the league at shutting down oppositions. Mailloux will likely be his long term partner, so I could see Guhle scoring 35-40 pts per season without any pp time.

He's one of the few defenseman in the league who can keep up and actually manage to check McDavid and Mackinnon due to his speed. IMO, Mailloux, Guhle, Xhekaj and Reinbacher need to stay (and Hutson, obviously). They all have profiles that can succeed in the playoffs if they hit and they all bring something different. I don't see any of them being redudant. Matheson, Struble, Barron and Harris the Ds I don't mind losing long term.

 

[Redux91]

I just love how most defenseman take until the age of 23 or so to crack the NHL

But people are CONVINCED a 22 yr old Guhle with 100 NHL games under his belt is a finished product and wont show more than he has been showing us (which has been pretty damn good, just a touch of frailty to work on)

So yeah
Whole things been puzzling to say the least..

It blows my mind people forget Matheson missed the first few months of his 1st year in MTL, and our only hope to hold the fort at LD1 was a TWENTY YEAR OLD ROOKIE Kaiden Guhle playing his FIRST 15 NHL games..
And he looked GOOD doing it.
But yeah, who cares about that right?

 

[Rapala]

I just love how most defenseman take until the age of 23 or so to crack the NHL

But people are CONVINCED a 22 yr old Guhle with 100 NHL games under his belt is a finished product and wont show more than he has been showing us (which has been pretty damn good, just a touch of frailty to work on)

So yeah
Whole things been puzzling to say the least..

It blows my mind people forget Matheson missed the first few months of his 1st year in MTL, and our only hope to hold the fort at LD1 was a TWENTY YEAR OLD ROOKIE Kaiden Guhle playing his FIRST 15 NHL games..
And he looked GOOD doing it.
But yeah, who cares about that right?

I've already said my piece on this kid going back to when we drafted him.
The first time I saw him in camp I said this guy makes the team next year.
Got scoffed at.
It was so evident he was heads and tails above anyone else defensively.
I get a chuckle at people calling him fragile.
He's not fragile he was over used year one and his injuries were caused by fatigue.

His only serious down time last season was Kucherov being a prick knowing exactly what he was doing.
Guhle was obviously annoying him with his coverage...

Kaiden Guhle just needs to pick and chose when to get physical until he fills out some.
Elbows up going into corners and stick threatening at high chest level when they come at you face to face.

 

[Deebs]

I just love how most defenseman take until the age of 23 or so to crack the NHL

But people are CONVINCED a 22 yr old Guhle with 100 NHL games under his belt is a finished product and wont show more than he has been showing us (which has been pretty damn good, just a touch of frailty to work on)

So yeah
Whole things been puzzling to say the least..

It blows my mind people forget Matheson missed the first few months of his 1st year in MTL, and our only hope to hold the fort at LD1 was a TWENTY YEAR OLD ROOKIE Kaiden Guhle playing his FIRST 15 NHL games..
And he looked GOOD doing it.
But yeah, who cares about that right?

Yeah but points and fantasy value.....come on man, those are much more important than winning hockey games LOL

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

I just love how most defenseman take until the age of 23 or so to crack the NHL

But people are CONVINCED a 22 yr old Guhle with 100 NHL games under his belt is a finished product and wont show more than he has been showing us (which has been pretty damn good, just a touch of frailty to work on)

So yeah
Whole things been puzzling to say the least..

It blows my mind people forget Matheson missed the first few months of his 1st year in MTL, and our only hope to hold the fort at LD1 was a TWENTY YEAR OLD ROOKIE Kaiden Guhle playing his FIRST 15 NHL games..
And he looked GOOD doing it.
But yeah, who cares about that right?

The most impressive part of Guhle's game is he hasn't been started off with low minutes and easy matchups, or been stapled beside a steady reliable partner like Savard to cover his mistakes.

Since coming into the league he's been thrown right into the fire playing 20+ minutes a game against other team's top six players. He's been doing this while playing with a revolving door of inexperienced D partners like Barron, Harris, Kovacevic, or helping stabilize a pair with Matheson to help the vet in Matheson play more offensive.

On top of not looking out of place defensively, he's also put up a 29 point pace over 82 games during his career while playing minimal on the PP.

 

[Tyson]

The most impressive part of Guhle's game is he hasn't been started off with low minutes and easy matchups, or been stapled beside a steady reliable partner like Savard to cover his mistakes.

Since coming into the league he's been thrown right into the fire playing 20+ minutes a game against other team's top six players. He's been doing this while playing with a revolving door of inexperienced D partners like Barron, Harris, Kovacevic, or helping stabilize a pair with Matheson to help the vet in Matheson play more offensive.

On top of not looking out of place defensively, he's also put up a 29 point pace over 82 games during his career while playing minimal on the PP.

He is a really good player.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Crazy that Guhle of all people is a player fans would turn on. He does everything right? I don't understand.

Fans turning on Guhle are the ‘glass is half empty’ sort of observers. They don’t see 50 + points potential thus rendering Guhle, in their eyes, as expendable.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just love how most defenseman take until the age of 23 or so to crack the NHL

But people are CONVINCED a 22 yr old Guhle with 100 NHL games under his belt is a finished product and wont show more than he has been showing us (which has been pretty damn good, just a touch of frailty to work on)

So yeah
Whole things been puzzling to say the least..

It blows my mind people forget Matheson missed the first few months of his 1st year in MTL, and our only hope to hold the fort at LD1 was a TWENTY YEAR OLD ROOKIE Kaiden Guhle playing his FIRST 15 NHL games..
And he looked GOOD doing it.
But yeah, who cares about that right?

See also: Justin Barron

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

The most impressive part of Guhle's game is he hasn't been started off with low minutes and easy matchups, or been stapled beside a steady reliable partner like Savard to cover his mistakes.

Since coming into the league he's been thrown right into the fire playing 20+ minutes a game against other team's top six players. He's been doing this while playing with a revolving door of inexperienced D partners like Barron, Harris, Kovacevic, or helping stabilize a pair with Matheson to help the vet in Matheson play more offensive.

On top of not looking out of place defensively, he's also put up a 29 point pace over 82 games during his career while playing minimal on the PP.

Don't forget he is also being asked to play on his off hand as well. I really like Matheson but he should be the one who is playing on his off hand imo and letting the kid stick to his strong side. I am sure there is a good reason for this that I am not aware of but it seems odd for the kid to switch in order to protect the vet's game.

This is how I would like to see the D set up to start the season.

Guhle - Matheson (or vice versa)
Hutson - Savard
Xhekaj - Barron

7th D.... Struble/Harris

Laval

Reinbacher
Mailloux
Engstrom

* If Barron is traded then both Struble and Harris stay up and work in a rotation with Xhekaj and possibly Hutson.
* If Harris is traded Struble stays in Montreal and they rotate through Xhekaj/Barron/Struble and possibly Hutson
* If Struble is traded Harris stays up in the same rotation
* If nobody is traded Harris stays in Montreal and Struble goes to Laval
* If multiple dmen are traded.......IDFK

Injuries will obviously play a major role here but there is no point in speculating about who will get hurt and for how long. If Hutson struggles he could very well end up in Laval but I suspect that he starts the season in Montreal.

 

[Habssince89]

Fans turning on Guhle are the ‘glass is half empty’ sort of observers. They don’t see 50 + points potential thus rendering Guhle, in their eyes, as expendable.

In no way should he be traded, on the merit of his talent alone but also because he still has to grow into his frame before we really know his ceiling.

See also: Justin Barron

I don't see the two situations as the same. I'd love to keep Barron around, but he has a lot of players ahead of him in the depth chart positionally and stylistically. I've seen some comparisons to other eras where we thought we could trade someone because the pipeline was 'full'. I think what Hughes has on his hands is a 'problem that can become an opportunity'. Barron is an NHLer in my eyes, but he doesn't fit what's going on at a team level. I think we have a rare chance to trade a legit piece that we can spare, instead of offering up a guy who is seen as a 'bust'. Barron would fetch a nice price, especially if combined with some of those additional picks we have on hand.

I wouldn't mind if they decide to keep Barron, but I think a top6 forward that can fit medium-to-long term with the habs would be a welcome return that wouldn't hurt the club.

On the other hand, the best argument I've heard for keeping him outright is that there will be injuries on the blueline, and they might as well wait until maybe the next TDL before they make any drastic changes to the blueline (Savard).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

In no way should he be traded, on the merit of his talent alone but also because he still has to grow into his frame before we really know his ceiling.

I don't see the two situations as the same. I'd love to keep Barron around, but he has a lot of players ahead of him in the depth chart positionally and stylistically. I've seen some comparisons to other eras where we thought we could trade someone because the pipeline was 'full'. I think what Hughes has on his hands is a 'problem that can become an opportunity'. Barron is an NHLer in my eyes, but he doesn't fit what's going on at a team level. I think we have a rare chance to trade a legit piece that we can spare, instead of offering up a guy who is seen as a 'bust'. Barron would fetch a nice price, especially if combined with some of those additional picks we have on hand.

I wouldn't mind if they decide to keep Barron, but I think a top6 forward that can fit medium-to-long term with the habs would be a welcome return that wouldn't hurt the club.

On the other hand, the best argument I've heard for keeping him outright is that there will be injuries on the blueline, and they might as well wait until maybe the next TDL before they make any drastic changes to the blueline (Savard).

They are the same in that people here write off players far too quickly. Barron barely has 100 games and is 22 years old.

That doesn’t mean they’re the same player or have the same value.

 

[Habssince89]

They are the same in that people here write off players far too quickly. Barron barely has 100 games and is 22 years old.

That doesn’t mean they’re the same player or have the same value.

Right, I get that. But the difference to me is we'd be moving Barron not because we're giving up on him but because we know he has value. Moving guhle would leave a hole. Barron not as much.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

It is a little disingenuous to state that he never scored more than 40 points when he did it in his draft year and only played 2 games in his D+1 season. In his D+2 he put up 40 points in 42 games and 16 in 19 playoff games while winning playoff MVP.

He likely never puts up 50 points in Montreal if Hutson and Mailloux continue to progress as he will not be on PP1 but this does not mean that he would not do so if given the chance. I feel like you have been putting old school defensive dman archetype comparisons on him since we drafted him and he has been continuously proving you to be wrong. You were originally limiting his potential because you thought that his skating was sub par which I vigorously argued against. I think you need to open your mind to more modern observation methods as the game and archetypes have drastically changed.

Guhle is the prototypical physical, elite skating two-way D in the modern game. IMO, defensive D <25 points, 2-way 26-50 points, and offensive over 50

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right, I get that. But the difference to me is we'd be moving Barron not because we're giving up on him but because we know he has value. Moving guhle would leave a hole. Barron not as much.

I'm not opposed to moving Barron for the right deal. My beef is with people who are writing him off.

I don't like the idea of trading away a guy who's developing and could be a solid RD down the line. He's big, can skate, has offensive tools. He has potential. But if you read some of the posts on here, people have given up on him. And that I have a problem with.

 

[Habssince89]

I'm not opposed to moving Barron for the right deal. My beef is with people who are writing him off.

I don't like the idea of trading away a guy who's developing and could be a solid RD down the line. He's big, can skate, has offensive tools. He has potential. But if you read some of the posts on here, people have given up on him. And that I have a problem with.

I'm 100% on your side there, I'm just saying that Guhle is someone we should never trade, Barron only for a good price. It's just that a good price might be available, and would take the team forward by bringing in a forward to help the core, who deserve the help.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm 100% on your side there, I'm just saying that Guhle is someone we should never trade, Barron only for a good price. It's just that a good price might be available, and would take the team forward by bringing in a forward to help the core, who deserve the help.

That’s fine. I’m not interested in trading Guhle at all. Love the guy and his potential.

Funny that he may never see PP time though with Hutson here.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Guhle is the prototypical physical, elite skating two-way D in the modern game. IMO, defensive D <25 points, 2-way 26-50 points, and offensive over 50

I don't believe in point totals dictating the way in which we define dmen as much of it is opportunity and surrounding talent. I do understand what you were trying to do but I really prefer to avoid such models as they are bereft of context.

I agree that Guhle is very much a high end modern day dman who can play at a high level in all situations and as he gets stronger he will make his doubters look silly.....unless he continues to get his brain scrambled. People are calling Dach injury prone despite not having recurring injuries whereas Guhle has suffered multiple concussions. Hopefully they move him back to the left side where he can move the puck quicker and protect against the huge hits.

 

[themilosh]

I don't believe in point totals dictating the way in which we define dmen as much of it is opportunity and surrounding talent. I do understand what you were trying to do but I really prefer to avoid such models as they are bereft of context.

I agree that Guhle is very much a high end modern day dman who can play at a high level in all situations and as he gets stronger he will make his doubters look silly.....unless he continues to get his brain scrambled. People are calling Dach injury prone despite not having recurring injuries whereas Guhle has suffered multiple concussions. Hopefully they move him back to the left side where he can move the puck quicker and protect against the huge hits.

I believe it is gross negligence on development to have Guhle playing RD.. ofcourse this makes him susceptible to blind spots, and probably why hes had a few concussions.. all for what? A vet who is average at best LD with high upside Pt producing and PP... laughable that the rookie is tasked with the harder assignments..

This has to stop, befor Guhle gets injured further... or trade one of them before the season starts... matheson needs to be shipped out asap - so that Guhle can play LD... guhle is our future, matheson is not - i dont care how many gimme points he ends up with.. insane keeping him.

Pick one, and go from there.... enough faking it.. it's not working..

I seriously would prefer Barron playing top pair minutes with Guhle (as LD) than guhle on his off side with non core vet Matheson. Sell high, for the love of God..

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I believe it is gross negligence on development to have Guhle playing RD.. ofcourse this makes him susceptible to blind spots, and probably why hes had a few concussions.. all for what? A vet who is average at best LD with high upside Pt producing and PP... laughable that the rookie is tasked with the harder assignments..

This has to stop, befor Guhle gets injured further... or trade one of them before the season starts... matheson needs to be shipped out asap - so that Guhle can play LD... guhle is our future, matheson is not - i dont care how many gimme points he ends up with.. insane keeping him.

Pick one, and go from there.... enough faking it.. it's not working..

I seriously would prefer Barron playing top pair minutes with Guhle (as LD) than guhle on his off side with non core vet Matheson. Sell high, for the love of God..

I am a big Matheson fan and don't think we should trade him just to open a spot as he is an elite PMD but I do agree that Guhle needs to play the left side. I would simply like to see Matheson tried on the right side.

I don't like Matheson on the PP as he doesn't process the game quick enough and allows the PK to reset instead of one-touching passes to the dots and bumper or breaking down the top of the diamond and penetrating the middle. His feet are elite and he can evade checkers and buy time but it just leaves the rest of the unit static while waiting for him to go through this ritual or when he continuously and needlessly dusts the puck off every time he gets it at the top of the Umbrella. This role needs to move to Hutson provided Hutson proves that he can be effective in the dzone.

Other than that I love Matheson's game as he makes so many exceptional defensive plays and zone exits that far outweigh the odd blunder. I am not saying that Matheson is untouchable by any means but the return would have to be outstanding as he is an incredible role model on and off of the ice for a developing team and an extremely valuable player on a great contract.

I just want to see Matheson tried on the right side or at the very least an explanation of why that isn't happening. In order to play on your offhand a dman needs to have great feet and an elevated level of puck skill which he definitely has. I am not sold on his IQ as being anything more than average and this may be the reason that they don't want to try him in this role.

We are largely in agreement about the need to get Guhle to the left side I just think that we are not aligned in our evaluation of Matheson's game and overall impact.