Kadri player discssion thread.

[leaffaninvancouver]

Let's hope he makes the most of it, he's had this opportunity before.

Once again it's possible to be happy both players do well, well possible for some.

 

[Duke Silver]

Let's hope he makes the most of it, he's had this opportunity before.

Once again it's possible to be happy both players do well, well possible for some.

Very, very limited opportunity in which he posted above-average numbers.

This will be the first time he's ever received top-line minutes and opportunity for an extended, uninterrupted period of time.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Let's hope he makes the most of it, he's had this opportunity before.

Once again it's possible to be happy both players do well, well possible for some.

3 games in a row (the largest amount of time he was played on the first line) is hardly an ample opportunity.

I don't care what Bozak does.

 

[Menzinger]

What I find to be pretty amusing is the same posters who used to say the only thing holding Kadri back in the past from putting up elite statistical numbers was a lack of opportunity are the same ones who are now already starting to rev up the "excuses" train as to why Kadri isn't going to produce what is supposedly expected now that he is being given the opportunity they said was missing in the past..

Or maybe it's just another year in the books and everyone sort of realizes what Kadri is and what he's going to be. Guess we'll soon find out.

It's not excuses - it's setting realistic expectations. Having a centre be able to consistently put up 50 points alongside good possession numbers would make them the best centre the team has iced since Sundin.

If Kadri got to play beside a player like Kessel than I'd say 60 points was well within his grasp. But he isn't, he's on a line where Brad Boyes (a recent PTO signing) is his winger. That doesn't sound like a line that's going to be able to produce noticeable offensive numbers.

 

[HockeyCA]

Use your critical thinking skills. What's the major difference between being a #1C on last year's team vs. this year's team?

Oh whatever. He'll still post better points and possession numbers than Bozak without that major difference.

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Also, you really should try not to talk down to others.. You sound kind of like a schmuck.

 

[The Apologist]

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Also, you really should try not to talk down to others.. You sound kind of like a schmuck.

I am glad Im not the only one who finds it funny.

 

[Purity*]

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Also, you really should try not to talk down to others.. You sound kind of like a schmuck.

I never saw anyone say Kadri and Zetterberg are comparable. People who were "passing the chart around" were showing that Zetterberg and Kadri are similar in a few advanced stats. Comparing advanced stats =/= comparing players

laughed at the second part of your comment though

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

A guy claimed off waivers and slotted into the first line. Alright, go leafs go.

 

[King85Kong]

I never saw anyone say Kadri and Zetterberg are comparable. People who were "passing the chart around" were showing that Zetterberg and Kadri are similar in a few advanced stats. Comparing advanced stats =/= comparing players

laughed at the second part of your comment though

Not worth it. Misquotes all the time and takes things out of context. That said, I do believe Kadri will finish the season around the 60 point mark. A lot of in this thread that coach Babcock has Kadri over Bozak.
Bozak over/under this year: 30 points
I'll take the under.

 

[Menzinger]

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Also, you really should try not to talk down to others.. You sound kind of like a schmuck.

I don't think anyone ever claimed Kadri was "elite" just that certain aspects of his game compare well to other great players around the league.

I strongly suspect though that JVR's PPG pace will be stronger with Kadri than with Bozak/Holland/ect.

 

[Duke Silver]

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Also, you really should try not to talk down to others.. You sound kind of like a schmuck.

It's amazing how many times that's been explained to you and how many times it has flown over your head.

But by all means, keep trotting out that hyperbole. It's obviously all you have left for which to grasp.

I didn't think I was talking down to you. I simply implored you to ponder "and why is that?" before making some half-assed assertion. This is becoming a pattern.

(P.S: That was talking down to you.)

 

[Semantics]

Elite players elevate the players they play with. For a while a lot of folks around here were saying Kadri was comparable with some of the very best players in the game (Zetterberg, etc.), I think I remember a chart being passed around quite frequently. I guess that narrative has finally come and gone at least.

Kadri does elevate the players around him. Probably not as much as Zetterberg, but enough that Winnik, Santorelli, and Raymond all had great seasons when they spent significant amount of time on Kadri's wing. Others like Kessel, Komarov, Frattin, and Raymond also did better with Kadri. The *only* player he's played with a lot who he couldn't elevate was Clarkson.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Kadri does elevate the players around him. Probably not as much as Zetterberg, but enough that Winnik, Santorelli, and Raymond all had great seasons when they spent significant amount of time on Kadri's wing. Others like Kessel, Komarov, Frattin, and Raymond also did better with Kadri. The *only* player he's played with a lot who he couldn't elevate was Clarkson.

Indeed. When Santorelli and Winnick were traded their play dropped away from Kadri. Hell Frattin looked like an NHL'er when he was on a line with Kadri during the 2013 season.

 

[Menzinger]

Kadri does elevate the players around him. Probably not as much as Zetterberg, but enough that Winnik, Santorelli, and Raymond all had great seasons when they spent significant amount of time on Kadri's wing. Others like Kessel, Komarov, Frattin, and Raymond also did better with Kadri. The *only* player he's played with a lot who he couldn't elevate was Clarkson.

Pretty noticeable that awinnik, a guy that was widely considered to be a 4th liner before he came to the Leafs had his best season with Karri.

 

[Pookie]

Very, very limited opportunity in which he posted above-average numbers.

This will be the first time he's ever received top-line minutes and opportunity for an extended, uninterrupted period of time.

Well then we look forward to seeing what he can do.

Let's hope he has a new alarm clock.

 

[Canada4Gold]

They're hockey players, they're all over paid.

In terms of 'market value' I don't see Bozak @ 4.2 at this crazy unheard of amount. It may be slightly above market value, which is where almost all players who hit UFA status reach.

I also think Kadri's earned and lost the right to play the role so many times that Bozak pretty much being a model citizen gets overlooked because of the relationship with Kessel.

Bozak never asked or was signed to be the #1 C....it's just where he ended up because we literally had nobody better suited for the job.

Hell we still may not if Kadri can't handle it. But I think Kadri having a Bozak in front of him allowed him to make those mistakes and come back stronger from them because if Kadri makes those mistakes as the #1 C he's already moved at half the price and we're down another asset.

If everyone who's UFA gets more than what people think market value is then everyone has their idea of market value set too low.

Market value by definition is what someone would earn on the open market. i.e. UFA. If Bozak canm get 4.2 million on the open market which he did, then that's his market value, not some imaginary sub 3 million dollar value that fans perceive he's worth.

This is a market when Bolland got over 5 million. People need to understand how it works.

I'm not mad we gave Bozak 4.2 million dollars. A UFA 3rd line center tends to go for that much, oh well. If you don't want to pay it then develop a cost controlled 3rd line center, and sign them for cheaper in RFA

 

[Pookie]

Both Kadri and Grabo outplayed Bozak for the #1 center role in different years. Neither were given the opportunity to take it. I can't recall any stretch longer than 3 games where Bozak (whilst healthy) wasn't paired with Kessel.

Even Bolland outplayed Bozak for the short time he was healthy in Toronto.

To be fair, that's not saying much, but the point is that other centers should have been given a shot like this a LONG time ago. It finally looks like it's about to happen.

We'll still need to develop a #1 center through the draft (or maybe Nylander or Marner will be able to do it). But when that happens, I think that we'll have a very solid #2 with Kadri, if we keep him.

Agreed on Grabovski. Really liked him as a player.

As for Bozak and Kadri, neither is a part of the future IMO.

Bozak will be too old when they are good and Kadri is too risky to lock up to a long term deal. Decent player, too much baggage to clear up in just 6 months.

In the end, both are Leafs so I won't boo them. The best move for the franchise though is to find other centres to be the cornerstones in 4 years. Until then it's just filler.

 

[Pookie]

A guy claimed off waivers and slotted into the first line. Alright, go leafs go.

Going to be a looooong season.

 

[King85Kong]

Agreed on Grabovski. Really liked him as a player.

As for Bozak and Kadri, neither is a part of the future IMO.

Bozak will be too old when they are good and Kadri is too risky to lock up to a long term deal. Decent player, too much baggage to clear up in just 6 months.

In the end, both are Leafs so I won't boo them. The best move for the franchise though is to find other centres to be the cornerstones in 4 years. Until then it's just filler.

Babcock seems to be a big fan of his. Which was restated in his last interview saying how he didn't realize just how good Kadri is. Might be seeing him in Toronto longer than you expect.

 

[wmark]

So....who does Babcock trust more?

 

[Pookie]

Babcock seems to be a big fan of his. Which was restated in his last interview saying how he didn't realize just how good Kadri is. Might be seeing him in Toronto longer than you expect.

Well hey, they know what his off ice issues are. We don't and shouldn't.

If they feel as though he turned a corner and they are willing to risk 5 years on him, so be it. It's their money. I wouldn't but that's just opinion.

We do know they didn't feel comfortable with that option this summer, hence the try out deal.

So now, he has 6 months or more to earn a bigger contract. That includes on and off ice performance.

It really is up to him and probably the fairest thing to do.

I don't know what we are arguing about.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well hey, they know what his off ice issues are. We don't and shouldn't.

If they feel as though he turned a corner and they are willing to risk 5 years on him, so be it. It's their money. I wouldn't but that's just opinion.

We do know they didn't feel comfortable with that option this summer, hence the try out deal.

So now, he has 6 months or more to earn a bigger contract. That includes on and off ice performance.

It really is up to him and probably the fairest thing to do.

I don't know what we are arguing about.

And I don't know why you're so salty.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So....who does Babcock trust more?

Maybe we just wait and find out?

 

[Trapper]

Maybe we just wait and find out?

Kessel was the focus of the other teams best D.
Now Kadri will be in the spotlight.
He's a good player but the JVR/Kadri/Boyes(or whatever) is still an NHL 2nd line IMO. Nothing wrong with that and it would be great if we had a true no. 1 C. This is our 1st line now and the talent drops off after there.
Time will tell as you say. The season will show us.

 

[HockeyCA]

It's amazing how many times that's been explained to you and how many times it has flown over your head.

But by all means, keep trotting out that hyperbole. It's obviously all you have left for which to grasp.

I didn't think I was talking down to you. I simply implored you to ponder "and why is that?" before making some half-assed assertion. This is becoming a pattern.

(P.S: That was talking down to you.)

Hey look! A guy who thinks he's way smarter than he actually is..

I guess it's just not clear on what your argument is now, and what it was in the past. Last season, I think the argument went that Kadri was underrated because he produced so much without first line minutes and opportunity. In fact, I think the main argument went something like a lot of his advanced metrics were comparable to some of the very best in the game, depending on the individual player, and he was being held back by the players in front of him on the depth chart. Some said Zetterberg, one or two compared him to the very very best, but almost all agreed that he was being held back by a lack of opportunity. Most pointed to his almost 50 point season as an indication of his potential for greatness, and indicative that a lack of opportunity was truly the reason as to why his point totals were not of the same level as his "peers" in regards to his advanced metric comparables. All that was needed, supposedly, was more responsibility and opportunity by the coaching staff.

And now, it seems that same group seems to be saying that if he just is able to produce at the same levels as previous seasons, even though he's about to be given the opportunity so many have said would come with increased production, then they can say I told you so.

Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that we are not about to witness a coming out party where this player produces 65-75 points that would make the lofty comparables of the past at least somewhat realistic. Inconsistency, an average shot, and a lack of elite playmaking abilities will lead to good production, but not elite production. Elite production that was predicted by so many around here if the coaching staff just made him the primary engine of the offence. Well, seems to me that is what is about to happen and the backtracking has already begun.