Kadri player discssion thread.

[Gary Nylund]

Of course his totals should fall without Kessel. How much so? Well that's to be seen. But to compare any Leaf stats under a Babcock style to the run and gun of the past will be foolish...play away from the puck will be as important as anything especially over the first 8 weeks or so as the team adjusts to the system.

I still don't see why that's warrant to people bashing him as some have admitted to doing since I posted my 1st comment. He's done nothing personally to deserve that yet Kadri actually has and gets a free pass from many because of his talent.

I think that's part of the 'protecting players' that Babcock and Shanahan are looking for. It's not a players fault that the player was the best player for a job even though based on NHL standards he's sub par for that job.

All I see is people defending the right to throw an undrafted UFA who has drastically over achieved based on any expectation completely under the bus. I refuse to do that, and realize we'd be even worse off without his play the last 3 years.

Here's the thing. His points will likely go down, by a lot. The reason, no more Kessel. The reason he put up the points he did until now - Kessel.

Just admit that much, stop referring to Bozak as a 50 point player as if he would have come anywhere close to 50 without Kessel and you'll find people will stop "bashing" the guy. Most of them aren't bashing, they're just sick of people like you calling him a "50 point" player because that's making him him out to be a lot better than he really is.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Based on 82 games? Ok. Averages say differently.

Do we ignore averages in place of a goal because a player finishes 1 point away from a goal? That seems pretty...petty.

God knows if it was Marner or Kadri someone would use the same stats to call them a 50 point player and nobody would complain about it.

Umm no? Can't stand Kadri he won't get above 45 points he is over rated the people that call him a 1st line centre are kidding themselves

 

[Jack Bauer]

Would we be even worse? I'm not sure I can confidently say that. If we didn't have Bozak, then Kessel and JVR would likely have been playing with a better centre. Bozak has always been put into a position that he simply isn't cut out for. If he wasn't around it's very possible that Kadri would've gotten to play between Kessel and JVR sooner, who is a much better centre. Not to mention Bozak is overpaid, that $4.2M could be better used if we didn't have Bozak.

Now I'm not saying with certainty we would have been better off without him but I don't think I can say with certainly that we would have been worse without him either. He's almost a third line player getting paid like he's a second and getting played like he's a first, that's easily replaceable.

23 goals, 49 points, and 53% faceoffs on almost 1800 attempts is easily replaceable.

Sure it is.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Here's the thing. His points will likely go down, by a lot. The reason, no more Kessel. The reason he put up the points he did until now - Kessel.

Just admit that much, stop referring to Bozak as a 50 point player as if he would have come anywhere close to 50 without Kessel and you'll find people will stop "bashing" the guy. Most of them aren't bashing, they're just sick of people like you calling him a "50 point" player because that's making him him out to be a lot better than he really is.

I think he hits high 40's even without Kessel if he's getting the minutes.

Scoring chances are going to come in the NHL and playing more means you're going to convert more.

There's no black and white that losing a good players means an instant drop in production. Chemistry and style could still have him as a 45-50 point player if he plays 80 games in the top line center role.

I'm not saying I would do it. I just don't get the bashing of the player because of it

 

[Jack Bauer]

Umm no? Can't stand Kadri he won't get above 45 points he is over rated the people that call him a 1st line centre are kidding themselves

I think he could hit 70 if the stars align for him. Very talented guy who has had some ups and downs with the ups looking very good.

I'm not going to put a ceiling on him until I see him under Babcock.

My biggest issue is his faceoff ability. It's the only thing that keeps me from being sold on him as a #1 into the future.

Right now it's a no brainer. But no need to put down his teammates because he's finally getting that chance.

 

[cookie]

I could swear we have had this "discussion" every year for the last 3 years.

Both players have had their good years; both have had their bad years.
Bozak's been played alongside Kessel far, far more than Kadri. Naz has been paired with Lupul (who has been injury-plagued) as well as Winnik and Santorelli. Consequently, because Bozie's been with Kessel so much, he's had favourable PP minutes as opposed to Kadri. Surprisingly enough, Kadri has been real bad on the PP.
Even-strength shooting stats show that when Kadri's on the ice, the team dominates the shot clock and the opposite is true when Bozak's on the ice. Bozak supposedly looks better on defense and he also plays PK.
Naz
I still have qualms about the Kadri suspension, particularly because Shanahan couldn't have been with the players nearly long enough to have some kind of basis for suspend them for their behaviour. Unless, of course, that behaviour was reprehensible and/or out in the open... in which case the story should have blown up.

 

[KGL]

23 goals, 49 points, and 53% faceoffs on almost 1800 attempts is easily replaceable.

Sure it is.

It is. Here's a look at Peter Holland's HERO chart...keep in mind Holland is much younger than Bozak and currently has a cap hit of $775,000, quite a bit less than Bozak's $4,200,000.

You'll notice Holland has a superior goals/60, points/60 and CA/60 despite playing with pretty awful linemates, getting played like a fourth liner and not getting to play alongside an elite winger. As for what Bozak leads in, specifically assists/60 and cf/60, I'd be willing to bet if Bozak didn't play with Kessel that Holland would have a superior assists/60 as well and potentially even cf/60 as Kessel drove both of those up for Bozie. Just one example. If you'd like me to find more examples of much cheaper players who are considered third or fourth line players yet beat Bozak in several of these stats, just tell me, it'll only take a second to find another example. Like I said, EASILY replaceable.

 

[xxxx]

I believe in Kadri

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Of course his totals should fall without Kessel. How much so? Well that's to be seen. But to compare any Leaf stats under a Babcock style to the run and gun of the past will be foolish...play away from the puck will be as important as anything especially over the first 8 weeks or so as the team adjusts to the system.

I still don't see why that's warrant to people bashing him as some have admitted to doing since I posted my 1st comment. He's done nothing personally to deserve that yet Kadri actually has and gets a free pass from many because of his talent.

I think that's part of the 'protecting players' that Babcock and Shanahan are looking for. It's not a players fault that the player was the best player for a job even though based on NHL standards he's sub par for that job.

All I see is people defending the right to throw an undrafted UFA who has drastically over achieved based on any expectation completely under the bus. I refuse to do that, and realize we'd be even worse off without his play the last 3 years.

Bozak usually gets criticized because he never did anything to earn the #1 center role on this team. It was gifted to him, and the lack of accountability on this team allowed him to keep it, despite consistent sub-par results.

People harp on his failure to reach 50 points because a player in his position should be in the 60 point range. When you play with 2 top wingers, and get 1st PP, that's pretty much the minimum of what's expected. He literally never came close, yet still kept being spoon-fed the opportunity.

Most of his detractors just wanted to see other players get a similar shot. Grabovski and Kadri, in particular, since both proved they could outplay Bozak on an absolute level, despite being in smaller roles with lesser linemates.

With Kessel gone, his point totals are going to plummet. He's likely a 20-30 point guy. Hopefully his defensive ability, which is highly questionable, actually appears in Babcock's system.

 

[Ovate]

It is. Here's a look at Peter Holland's HERO chart...keep in mind Holland is much younger than Bozak and currently has a cap hit of $775,000, quite a bit less than Bozak's $4,200,000.

You'll notice Holland has a superior goals/60, points/60 and CA/60 despite playing with pretty awful linemates, getting played like a fourth liner and not getting to play alongside an elite winger. As for what Bozak leads in, specifically assists/60 and cf/60, I'd be willing to bet if Bozak didn't play with Kessel that Holland would have a superior assists/60 as well and potentially even cf/60 as Kessel drove both of those up for Bozie. Just one example. If you'd like me to find more examples of much cheaper players who are considered third or fourth line players yet beat Bozak in several of these stats, just tell me, it'll only take a second to find another example. Like I said, EASILY replaceable.

HERO charts, for all their flaws, do take linemates into account.

 

[KGL]

Bozak usually gets criticized because he never did anything to earn the #1 center role on this team. It was gifted to him, and the lack of accountability on this team allowed him to keep it, despite consistent sub-par results.

People harp on his failure to reach 50 points because a player in his position should be in the 60 point range. When you play with 2 top wingers, and get 1st PP, that's pretty much the minimum of what's expected. He literally never came close, yet still kept being spoon-fed the opportunity.

Most of his detractors just wanted to see other players get a similar shot. Grabovski and Kadri, in particular, since both proved they could outplay Bozak on an absolute level, despite being in smaller roles with lesser linemates.

With Kessel gone, his point totals are going to plummet. He's likely a 20-30 point guy. Hopefully his defensive ability, which is highly questionable, actually appears in Babcock's system.

Bingo. Good post.

 

[p.l.f.]

But Bozak is still Kessel's bud
And that's not acceptable

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bozak usually gets criticized because he never did anything to earn the #1 center role on this team. It was gifted to him, and the lack of accountability on this team allowed him to keep it, despite consistent sub-par results.

People harp on his failure to reach 50 points because a player in his position should be in the 60 point range. When you play with 2 top wingers, and get 1st PP, that's pretty much the minimum of what's expected. He literally never came close, yet still kept being spoon-fed the opportunity.

Most of his detractors just wanted to see other players get a similar shot. Grabovski and Kadri, in particular, since both proved they could outplay Bozak on an absolute level, despite being in smaller roles with lesser linemates.

With Kessel gone, his point totals are going to plummet. He's likely a 20-30 point guy. Hopefully his defensive ability, which is highly questionable, actually appears in Babcock's system.

Very well put.

It's funny how some of the same people who are pumping Bozak over Kadri are saying they expect 60 or 70 points from Kadri this year. Why? Well because that's what they expect from a #1C. Bozak puts up 49 points with JVR and Kessel and now they expect 60-70 from Kadri with JVR and Boyes?

 

[Daisy Jane]

as these threads tend to go. I'll just say what I always say:

I don't think either player is in the long term future of the team. so whatever happens now - is really inconsequential. I hope Kadri does well.

 

[wmark]

Very well put.

It's funny how some of the same people who are pumping Bozak over Kadri are saying they expect 60 or 70 points from Kadri this year. Why? Well because that's what they expect from a #1C. Bozak puts up 49 points with JVR and Kessel and now they expect 60-70 from Kadri with JVR and Boyes?

SMH.

Yet Bozak is a #1 and deserves it, because its all about the faceoff %.

Someone play TLC's "No scrubs" please.

 

[Duke Silver]

Let the showcasing begin.

Good luck.

So salty.

 

[613Leafer]

No surprise Kadri gets the nod.

Bozak is good at faceoffs, thats pretty much it. Despite playing with two very good offensive wingers for years, he's still never topped 50 points, and their line always absolutely sucked defensively (despite winning most faceoffs and often starting with the puck).

Bozak without his unearned top PP minutes, his top offensive minutes, etc, will likely be a ~35 point forward that struggles defensively.

Regardless, we clearly need a bigtime upgrade at this position.

 

[The Apologist]

Bozak usually gets criticized because he never did anything to earn the #1 center role on this team. It was gifted to him, and the lack of accountability on this team allowed him to keep it, despite consistent sub-par results.

so should we expect the same complaints about Nazem this year? He's done nothing to earn the first line center spot.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

so should we expect the same complaints about Nazem this year? He's done nothing to earn the first line center spot.

He's shown more than Bozak and every other centre currently on the roster.

 

[wmark]

The myth that Tyler Bozak is a good player has to stop.

 

[Duckrider]

Very well put.

It's funny how some of the same people who are pumping Bozak over Kadri are saying they expect 60 or 70 points from Kadri this year. Why? Well because that's what they expect from a #1C. Bozak puts up 49 points with JVR and Kessel and now they expect 60-70 from Kadri with JVR and Boyes?

this.

Did Holland play with Kessel at all last year?

 

[Duckrider]

Babcock will put the players he has where they belong on this team.

 

[Snow Dog]

JVR/Kadri/Boyes as a first line.Barely a third line on a contender.I hope the future is brighter.

 

[Pookie]

Too risky? Luckily that's not your decision to make. Good thing too as you have an obvious bias against him.


No, it's the Leafs that pissed away the opportunity to find out what they had in Kadri by not giving him a chance as the #1 two years ago like they should have. Kadri hasn't pissed away anything, he's been playing pretty good hockey here. The fact that some people seem determined to put him down no matter what doesn't change that fact.

So happy Babcock's here. Having Bozak start the year as our #1 centre (again) would have been just as disappointing as it has been the last 2 years.

I am happy too.

Happy that Shanahan and Dubas saw fit to give him a try out contract to prove himself vs signing him long term with his off ice baggage.

Up to him now.

If it's ok with you, I will wait to see how he actually does before proclaiming him a success.

The more successful over this short term, the higher the trade value. Go Kadri.

 

[wmark]

Babcock will put the players he has where they belong on this team.

Babcock knows, playing Bozak as a # 1 centre has gotten 3 coaches fired.