Kadri player discssion thread.

[p.l.f.]

You could argue assists are misleading

 

[p.l.f.]

Case in pt
Jvr creates a screen 5 on 5
We score without him touching it
But he is rewarded with a +1

A secondary assist could be given to someone who wasn't even involved in the scoring play

 

[LeafsNation75]

Case in pt
Jvr creates a screen 5 on 5
We score without him touching it
But he is rewarded with a +1

That JVR goal against Montreal was on the power play, so he was never given a +1.

 

[p.l.f.]

That JVR goal against Montreal was on the power play, so he was never given a +1.

I wasn't aware of the play
I just used it is an imaginary example

 

[p.l.f.]

You can have relevant and irrelevant advanced stats
When plus minus has a bearing or not on the play
And you could give a 3rd assist like the jvr example

 

[Bluelines]

just curious, which number 3c has his type of production?

No doubting Kadri has skill but to call him anything but a 3C is overly optimistic.

I went through the first 5 teams going alphabetically and 3 of them had 3rd line centers with similar or better better points per game or points per ATOI with either less games or less ice time. I'm sure if I kept going I'd find another 10 to 15 teams with 3rd line centers with better or similar production to Kadri.

Kadri - 73 GP - 18 Goals, 21 Assists, 17:36 ATOI
Rickard Rakell - 9 goals,22 assists, 12:34 ATOI
Carl Soderberg - 13 goals, 31 assists, 16:49 ATOI - played 9 more games
Mikael Backlund - 52 GP, 10 goals, 17 assists, 17:45 ATOI, Calgary had 2 other centers with more points.

Sometimes home fans grow a crush on a player and become blind to the warts in his game, they think because he does some nifty OHL toe drags and it makes a NHL dman look silly every once in a blue moon it their guy special. I watch a lot of other teams play and to be honest almost every team has a few Kadri like players. What makes Kadri a 3C and not a 2C or a 1C is consistency not a lack of skill. If Kadri can some how bring that consistency to his game every night he will easily be a 2C or 1C.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No doubting Kadri has skill but to call him anything but a 3C is overly optimistic.

I went through the first 5 teams going alphabetically and 3 of them had 3rd line centers with similar or better better points per game or points per ATOI with either less games or less ice time. I'm sure if I kept going I'd find another 10 to 15 teams with 3rd line centers with better or similar production to Kadri.

Kadri - 73 GP - 18 Goals, 21 Assists, 17:36 ATOI
Rickard Rakell - 9 goals,22 assists, 12:34 ATOI
Carl Soderberg - 13 goals, 31 assists, 16:49 ATOI - played 9 more games
Mikael Backlund - 52 GP, 10 goals, 17 assists, 17:45 ATOI, Calgary had 2 other centers with more points.

Sometimes home fans grow a crush on a player and become blind to the warts in his game, they think because he does some nifty OHL toe drags and it makes a NHL dman look silly every once in a blue moon it their guy special. I watch a lot of other teams play and to be honest almost every team has a few Kadri like players. What makes Kadri a 3C and not a 2C or a 1C is consistency not a lack of skill. If Kadri can some how bring that consistency to his game every night he will easily be a 2C or 1C.

Incomplete, superficial and cherry-picked analysis. Other than that, well done.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Which means he needs to improve on his faceoffs

I think it's a little too early to be calling out these plays and judging their skills as of now. Just before this game, Kadri was 50% on the draw for the first two games while Bozak was at 46%. Now it's changed, but I think we should wait at least 10 more games before calling out someone for a lack of production/ 5 more games for someones lack of faceoff winning skills.

 

[ECanuck]

There is one thing about Kadri's game that keeps him from being a good hockey player. Imagine a cow that gives a lot of milk but has the tendency to kick the bucket half full or almost full. That's Kadri in a nut shell. Case in point last games soft pass in the middle. What should have been a simple play, he turned into a goal against.

Our players don't know how to play hockey the right way. They don't seem to get it. Something is missing up there. HELLO is anyone there?

I mean it's not like the coaches are asking them to calculate how to land on Mars. Know the situation you are in.

4 on 4 and the other team is about to go on powerplay. Make sure you dump the puck in and get off the ice.

When you go down a goal don't try to get the next goal on the next shift when there is 49 minutes of hockey left to play.

 

[Stephen]

If you're seriously asking that question

The first three years are, you know, development. He did reasonably well on the Knights and Marlies. Nothing to hold against him there.

Then he has a breakout season in 2012-13. Absolutely dominant, near PPG. Obviously going to regress a bit, but blows away expectations.

In 2013-14, he regresses to the mean and gets 50 points in 78 games while playing with Clarkson. Some people are disappointed in that, but it's still "very good 2C" territory. Better than Brayden Schenn ever got while playing with Giroux and Voracek.

Then, last year, his even strength play got even better. But his shooting percentage dropped (random fluctuations happen), and the Leafs collapsed. He can't put it together on the powerplay either, which further hurts him, and is a somewhat valid criticism. Despite all this, he still looks like an average 2C and has better ES production that a guys like Brayden Schenn or Cody Hodgson have ever had. He also has a ~20 game streak under Carlyle where he matched up against top lines with Winnik and Santorelli as his wingers and succeeded. It showed what he can do with defensively responsible wingers. Before and since then, he's never had the opportunity to play with possession drivers. If he has more opportunities to play like that, he'll be "Elite 2C" or "1C on a bad team" territory.

Kadri is a below average second line center who contributes to a losing team with low team hockey IQ. He had a very disappointing season last year offensively and people resort to spinning this "advanced stats shows us he did really well for his situation." There's no evolution with this player. It's one step forward. One step back.

 

[Wendelstache]

No doubting Kadri has skill but to call him anything but a 3C is overly optimistic.

I went through the first 5 teams going alphabetically and 3 of them had 3rd line centers with similar or better better points per game or points per ATOI with either less games or less ice time. I'm sure if I kept going I'd find another 10 to 15 teams with 3rd line centers with better or similar production to Kadri.

Kadri - 73 GP - 18 Goals, 21 Assists, 17:36 ATOI
Rickard Rakell - 9 goals,22 assists, 12:34 ATOI
Carl Soderberg - 13 goals, 31 assists, 16:49 ATOI - played 9 more games
Mikael Backlund - 52 GP, 10 goals, 17 assists, 17:45 ATOI, Calgary had 2 other centers with more points.

Sometimes home fans grow a crush on a player and become blind to the warts in his game, they think because he does some nifty OHL toe drags and it makes a NHL dman look silly every once in a blue moon it their guy special. I watch a lot of other teams play and to be honest almost every team has a few Kadri like players. What makes Kadri a 3C and not a 2C or a 1C is consistency not a lack of skill. If Kadri can some how bring that consistency to his game every night he will easily be a 2C or 1C.

Drop the mic and get out.

 

[Stephen]

By what criteria can't Kadri be a top six centre on a good team?

Inconsistency, not fully understanding his own strengths and weaknesses. Not applying himself the same way night after night. Seems to have small stretches of success followed by complacent play. Small, weak player who lacks explosiveness. Great hands but doesn't make the most economical play. Questionable vision and IQ.

 

[Swayze*]

Wait until they pay him 4-5m a season amd watch how perceptions change

 

[Snow Dog]

Wait until they pay him 4-5m a season amd watch how perceptions change

He already makes over 4 million.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

There is nothing wrong with being a 2nd./3rd. line center whether that is Holland/Kadri/Bozak.

But we have to accept reality, we aren't talking about 21-22 year old players here that look to be top line players.

As some have mentioned, these are placeholders for hopefully a couple players who the scouting staff has made the right projection on.

Can you imagine how much press a real top end player would get on this forum?

My main concern is Lamoriello signing Kadri to a 4-5 year contact at around 5M per year..I know that Shanny/Lams are smart hockey people and probably won't go down that road.

For sure the idiot Nonis would have signed Nazzy (without a doubt),for whatever he demanded next year.

 

[leafs in five]

For sure the idiot Nonis would have signed Nazzy (without a doubt),for whatever he demanded next year.

Nonis had every chance to lock Kadri up long term and didn't.

 

[thewave]

If this teams smart, I think they fire JVR out the cannon for the best possible return. It'll be a good thing. I hope Kadri gets hot then I would do the same.

 

[ULF_55]

Nonis had every chance to lock Kadri up long term and didn't.

Nonis did have options though, now they have few.

Maybe Kadri will want to move on if he feels he can do better elsewhere.

 

[mallory67]

No doubting Kadri has skill but to call him anything but a 3C is overly optimistic.

I went through the first 5 teams going alphabetically and 3 of them had 3rd line centers with similar or better better points per game or points per ATOI with either less games or less ice time. I'm sure if I kept going I'd find another 10 to 15 teams with 3rd line centers with better or similar production to Kadri.

Kadri - 73 GP - 18 Goals, 21 Assists, 17:36 ATOI
Rickard Rakell - 9 goals,22 assists, 12:34 ATOI
Carl Soderberg - 13 goals, 31 assists, 16:49 ATOI - played 9 more games
Mikael Backlund - 52 GP, 10 goals, 17 assists, 17:45 ATOI, Calgary had 2 other centers with more points.

Sometimes home fans grow a crush on a player and become blind to the warts in his game, they think because he does some nifty OHL toe drags and it makes a NHL dman look silly every once in a blue moon it their guy special. I watch a lot of other teams play and to be honest almost every team has a few Kadri like players. What makes Kadri a 3C and not a 2C or a 1C is consistency not a lack of skill. If Kadri can some how bring that consistency to his game every night he will easily be a 2C or 1C.

Good point ... and a valid argument. But you are also comparing Kadri to players on much better teams.
All of those guys were in the playoff hunt (Boston just missed). Calgary and Anaheim scored a lot of goals and were top 10 teams in GF.

Kadri was also decent defensively on a VERY bad defensive team.
Kadri is a solid 2C.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Not convinced on Naz, I just don't see it. Typical dipsy doodle player that goes nowhere.

 

[leafs in five]

Nonis did have options though, now they have few.

Maybe Kadri will want to move on if he feels he can do better elsewhere.

yeah i wouldn't be surprised on the second point.

i just meant that it was strange to assume that Nonis would give Kadri whatever he wanted this summer, when he wasn't willing to commit long term when Kadri's star was much brighter. i don't think anything Nonis did ever suggested that he was completely sold on Kadri. which is beginning to look like it's to his credit.

oh well.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

My main concern is Lamoriello signing Kadri to a 4-5 year contact at around 5M per year..I know that Shanny/Lams are smart hockey people and probably won't go down that road.

For sure the idiot Nonis would have signed Nazzy (without a doubt),for whatever he demanded next year.

I don't know why you're concerned about him getting a contract of 5 mil per year for 4-5 years. He's on a contract this year to prove how much he's worth by the end of the year. He'll be paid depending on how well he's played or traded. I really don't know why people try to put him down based on how he's paid right now. Our management is smarter right now and we don't know how he'll be paid. He may be paid 2 mil, he may be paid 5 mil but all that depends on he plays.

We have a small sample size for this season. Let's see how he does for the full season or at least until trade deadline. He has a new coach and worked hard over the summer to get better. He's looked like our best forward during preseason. I'm growing impatient of Kadri too after seeing how well he played during lockout and then dropped. This is his last year to prove himself.

He's been pretty underwhelming the first three games of the season but let's just hope it's a slow start. I remember during the lockout year he had a slow start in the AHL and then he went PPG in the AHL before the NHL season actually started.

We know he's inconsistent, but look at this entire team. This team is bad and everyone on it is inconsistent. I don't know why Kadri goes under the microscope more than other forward on this team. He's not a #1 centre by any means. A few years ago I used to think he can become a #1. I don't think we'll ever see the Kadri of the lockout season again. He's just a stop-gap until we have someone better. But if he proves himself this season, he can be a decent #2 centre long-term

 

[paulhiggins]

Best case scenario, this is what you might get out of Kadri in the long term:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=35733

His best years will be on his next team, beginning next year.

 

[Banic]

We know he's inconsistent, but look at this entire team. This team is bad and everyone on it is inconsistent. I don't know why Kadri goes under the microscope more than other forward on this team. He's not a #1 centre by any means. A few years ago I used to think he can become a #1. I don't think we'll ever see the Kadri of the lockout season again. He's just a stop-gap until we have someone better. But if he proves himself this season, he can be a decent #2 centre long-term

He goes under the microscope because he has a large fan base who (not all, but rather a minority) constantly try to pump him up and break other players down. Then the other crowd is simply trying to bring a sensibility to the discussion.

 

[Menzinger]

No doubting Kadri has skill but to call him anything but a 3C is overly optimistic.

I went through the first 5 teams going alphabetically and 3 of them had 3rd line centers with similar or better better points per game or points per ATOI with either less games or less ice time. I'm sure if I kept going I'd find another 10 to 15 teams with 3rd line centers with better or similar production to Kadri.

Kadri - 73 GP - 18 Goals, 21 Assists, 17:36 ATOI
Rickard Rakell - 9 goals,22 assists, 12:34 ATOI
Carl Soderberg - 13 goals, 31 assists, 16:49 ATOI - played 9 more games
Mikael Backlund - 52 GP, 10 goals, 17 assists, 17:45 ATOI, Calgary had 2 other centers with more points.

Sometimes home fans grow a crush on a player and become blind to the warts in his game, they think because he does some nifty OHL toe drags and it makes a NHL dman look silly every once in a blue moon it their guy special. I watch a lot of other teams play and to be honest almost every team has a few Kadri like players. What makes Kadri a 3C and not a 2C or a 1C is consistency not a lack of skill. If Kadri can some how bring that consistency to his game every night he will easily be a 2C or 1C.

You can't just ignore his previous two seasons before that where he was scoring comfortably in a top six rate. Even last season when you factor in how many games he played, his PPG pace was still top six territory.

He is not a number #3 centre by any measure.