Kadri player discssion thread.

[Wendelstache]

Not impressed with these two plugs in our top 6...

Hopefully Lou can turn them into 2nd or 3rd rounders.

 

[Admiring Myself]

It does actually, if a team could maintain a 60% like the guy you are quoting said, they'd be given a ticket to the finals.

sad to see playing keep away is the preferred method of the stats crowd. you guys eulogizing the trap yet for doing the same thing more effectively?

 

[shelf]

You guys are all absolutely insane, arguing about which midget is taller.

Neither of them are good but Kadri clearly has way more talent than Bozak, even though he can't string together more than 2 shifts utilizing his talent.

No team will ever win anything with Bozak in the top 6.

No team will ever win anything with Kadri in the top 6.

I could see a team winning with Kadri in the top 9 though, maybe Bozak as the water boy.

The Blackhawks won the cup with B. Richards in their top 6. I really wouldnt say 2014-2015 Richards is much better than Kadri now.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Call me when the high CF% starts translating into wins and I'll jump on the bandwagon.

What does that even mean? It has always translated into winning...
Literally all the past stanely cup winners have a strong possession team, at least over 50 CF%.

Possession isn't everything man, but when analyzing individual players there isn't a single elite player that wasn't an elite possession player in their prime for an extended period of time.

Let me put it simply, are you content with a player allowing more shots against than for every single season or a player putting more shots on rather than against every single season? We all wanted a Babcock style of possession game, and Kadri produced that 1st game extremely effectively. The 2nd game was pretty terrible, especially since I was expecting our 1C to carry but oh well.

 

[Admiring Myself]

jason blake as a leaf was a darling of advanced stats. i remember him skating in circles before weakly firing a puck at the opposing goalies chest but it was a key component of a cup im told.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

sad to see playing keep away is the preferred method of the stats crowd. you guys eulogizing the trap yet for doing the same thing more effectively?

Playing keep away? The preferred method is high quality chances + strong possession game. Just look at the Sedins, Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Crosby, Seguin etc.

Over a long period of time, you want your best players to have strong possession games as well as convert on high quality chances. If they don't have a strong possession game, then it's basically saying "Let's put our 1C out there against the toughest competition, even though we'll be in our zone the majority of the time".

 

[Admiring Myself]

The preferred method is high quality chances + strong possession game.

this is true of any elite team playing any possession based sport. elite players are elite at keeping possession. sometimes mediocre players excel at possessing the puck without accomplishing anything.

 

[Admiring Myself]

gp73 g18 a21 p39

a player the leafs need to give dollar and term to because advanced stats say he is better then his on ice production.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

this is true of any elite team playing any possession based sport. elite players are elite at keeping possession. sometimes mediocre players excel at possessing the puck without accomplishing anything.

Elite players are elite at keeping possession


Kadri is not that. But is he what you said after? Medicore players can excel at possessing the puck without accomplishing anything?

Let's take a look. In the past 3 years, Kadri has lead the team in possession while also being in the top-3 for points/60.

So it seems Kadri DOES excel at possession AND accomplishing something.
People have to realize that there is a fine line between elite players and just plain good players. If Kadri ever DID meet Leaf fans expectations, that would mean he would have to have 82 points? Know why? Because if Kadri doesn't produce one game, he'll have it to hell and back that he isn't a 1st line C.

Just look at this thread for example. It is HF, but our perceptions change all the time. Kadri could have a hat trick next game, and everyone would explode saying he's amazing. Kadri could play terrible, and everyone would vent saying he's not top-6 material.

If you want to know what you have in Kadri, play him 1st line all season long. Then you'll know. That's the mindset I think the Leafs should have. They have nothing to lose, so why not?

 

[Admiring Myself]

thats not to forget that baseball advanced stats which are far superior make errors especially regarding pitching. any blue jay fan can remember morrow the future ace cause fip.

 

[Admiring Myself]

Elite players are elite at keeping possession


Kadri is not that. But is he what you said after? Medicore players can excel at possessing the puck without accomplishing anything?

Let's take a look. In the past 3 years, Kadri has lead the team in possession while also being in the top-3 for points/60.

So it seems Kadri DOES excel at possession AND accomplishing something.
People have to realize that there is a fine line between elite players and just plain good players. If Kadri ever DID meet Leaf fans expectations, that would mean he would have to have 82 points? Know why? Because if Kadri doesn't produce one game, he'll have it to hell and back that he isn't a 1st line C.

Just look at this thread for example. It is HF, but our perceptions change all the time. Kadri could have a hat trick next game, and everyone would explode saying he's amazing. Kadri could play terrible, and everyone would vent saying he's not top-6 material.

If you want to know what you have in Kadri, play him 1st line all season long. Then you'll know. That's the mindset I think the Leafs should have. They have nothing to lose, so why not?

led the team on 3 teams that finished bottom 5? why i said seems like idolizing a mediocre player for not being as awful as his teammates. i dont think anyone on here thinks bozak is better then kadri. i just dont see the point in giving him a market contract instead of selling high (hopefully).

 

[Admiring Myself]

going off your criteria of top 3 i come up with kessel/jvr/kadri. its not like kadri beat out a particularly impressive set of forwards. he is better then bozak. is that how low our standards have come?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

led the team on 3 teams that finished bottom 5? why i said seems like idolizing a mediocre player for not being as awful as his teammates. i dont think anyone on here thinks bozak is better then kadri. i just dont see the point in giving him a market contract instead of selling high (hopefully).

But aren't you even a little curious to find out if he were given 1st line TOI + Healthy Lupul/JVR + 1st line PP, what that would produce!? He's 2nd on the team only behind Kessel for points/60 in the past 3 years, and yet we don't consider JVR a medicore player but Kadri one?

 

[Admiring Myself]

But aren't you even a little curious to find out if he were given 1st line TOI + Healthy Lupul/JVR + 1st line PP, what that would produce!? He's 2nd on the team only behind Kessel for points/60 in the past 3 years, and yet we don't consider JVR a medicore player but Kadri one?

i would trade jvr for a good deal asap cause his main appeal is his contract.

im fine with kadri playing first line minutes i just hope its towards maximizing his trade value instead of another $$$$/term deal we hope works out.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

going off your criteria of top 3 i come up with kessel/jvr/kadri. its not like kadri beat out a particularly impressive set of forwards. he is better then bozak. is that how low our standards have come?

Possession: 1st among top-6 Fwds

Points/60: 2nd among top-6 Fwds

Kessel 2.13 pts/60, Kadri 2.03 pts/60, Lupul 1.81 pts/60, JVR 1.81 pts/60, Bozak 1.67 pts/60

Regular points: 2 among top-6 fwds

Kessel: .59 pts/game
Kadri: .495 pts/game
JVR: .492 pts/game

All even strength numbers, remembering that Kadri was on the 2nd line, while Kessel/JVR were on the 1st.

 

[Admiring Myself]

Possession: 1st among top-6 Fwds

Points/60: 2nd among top-6 Fwds

Kessel 2.13 pts/60, Kadri 2.03 pts/60, Lupul 1.81 pts/60, JVR 1.81 pts/60, Bozak 1.67 pts/60

Regular points: 2 among top-6 fwds

Kessel: .59 pts/game
Kadri: .495 pts/game
JVR: .492 pts/game

All even strength numbers, remembering that Kadri was on the 2nd line, while Kessel/JVR were on the 1st.

so he is better then jvr? i hope management trades both.

 

[Admiring Myself]

Possession: 1st among top-6 Fwds

Points/60: 2nd among top-6 Fwds

Kessel 2.13 pts/60, Kadri 2.03 pts/60, Lupul 1.81 pts/60, JVR 1.81 pts/60, Bozak 1.67 pts/60

Regular points: 2 among top-6 fwds

Kessel: .59 pts/game
Kadri: .495 pts/game
JVR: .492 pts/game

All even strength numbers, remembering that Kadri was on the 2nd line, while Kessel/JVR were on the 1st.

other then kessel as a complimentary piece on a contender do you see any of them being a key part of a cup winning team?

 

[Admiring Myself]

not even to get how /per min stats tend to make decent players in niche roles look great.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

not even to get how /per min stats tend to make decent players in niche roles look great.

niche roles? Playing as the 2C is a niche role? Playing against top competition last year in primarily more defensive starts is a niche role? I guess we can call the role Bergeron, Plekanec, J.Staal, Spezza play niche roles?

Man, I'm not sure what you have against Kadri but just let him play lol. If you know he's done really well compared to his linemates, then why not actually play him like he's better than his linemates lol. That's what this year is for, not for the Leafs to 'find new lines', but to find out what they have in Kadri at the 1C, how Gardiner plays playing the most minutes, if Bernier can do what Schneider has done, etc.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

other then kessel as a complimentary piece on a contender do you see any of them being a key part of a cup winning team?

I see Kessel as a key part of a cup winning team for sure, not a complimentary piece. How can I see Kadri being a key part of a cup winning team, when he hasn't even finished 2 games on the 1C Leafs position yet. JVR I see as a complimentary piece (not core, but an important part), like Neal or Sharp are.

 

[dballislife2]

lets try

jvr kadri lupul - most talent on line 1, our 3 best and most skilled players

leo matthias winnik - crazy hustle, cycle, board work, forecheck line

holland bozak boyes - our next most skilled 3 i guess

grabner/pa spaling arcobello - the scrubs

 

[Mats13]

Not impressed with these two plugs in our top 6...

Hopefully Lou can turn them into 2nd or 3rd rounders.

Kadri a plug? Really?

 

[ldnk]

The only thing I take away from these threads is that a lot of people just seem to resort to "he's stupid and a plug" when faced with any stats. That's some high quality discussion.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

You guys are all absolutely insane, arguing about which midget is taller.

Neither of them are good but Kadri clearly has way more talent than Bozak, even though he can't string together more than 2 shifts utilizing his talent.

No team will ever win anything with Bozak in the top 6.

No team will ever win anything with Kadri in the top 6.

I could see a team winning with Kadri in the top 9 though, maybe Bozak as the water boy.

Wrong, in this time and life winning the draft lottery is winning.

Otherwise agree.

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

kadri is our best forward we are 100% not trading him. the hate for him is insane and shows that many hf posters are blind.