Kadri player discssion thread.

[Pookie]

Not worth the time. Can't talk with someone who is looking for drama and plays both sides of arguments. Go try it with someone else. There are enough good posters on here to discuss things with. Have a good night.

I'm pretty consistent here and in every one of my posts. Maybe I frustrate you because you can't paint me into a camp? I don't know but I might as well just type it up here and then I can go to bed and be done with this. Observations and facts:

- Kadri had a good game last night
- Kadri has great offensive abilities
- Kadri was the best Leaf on face offs, an improvement
- Kadri had a key draw that led to a goal for us
- Kadri lost a key draw that led to a goal against us
- Kadri had an assist in the game and was -2 on the night
- Kadri should get more PP time, it's his strength
- Kadri should not get PK time, it's not his strength
- Playing a more offensive role could be a better showcase for Kadri and will let the Leafs know what they actually have in him

- Bozak had more ice time
- Bozak was used in a more defensive role
- Bozak played against higher quality competition and was the coach's main go to guy against their top line… not my "eye test" that's according to the stats
- Bozak wore the "A"
- Bozak isn't likely to be the main offensive threat
- Bozak should get 2nd line PP time
- Bozak should be on the PK
- Playing in a more defensive role is a better showcase for Bozak

- I'm in the camp of neither player
- Neither player will/should be part of the future
- Bozak will be too old when we are good
- Kadri on a long term deal scares me from an off ice perspective and I don't want the team stuck with a contract they can't move
- Trade Bozak tomorrow and I'm smiling… provided the brass thinks that's where his max value is
- Trade Kadri tomorrow and I'm smiling…. provided the brass thinks that's where his max value is
- If the team decides otherwise and want to sign him, they are in a better position to know. If that happens Kadri will have put up good numbers and cleaned up his act. I'll applaud that as he will be wearing the Maple Leaf

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'm pretty consistent here and in every one of my posts. Maybe I frustrate you because you can't paint me into a camp? I don't know but I might as well just type it up here and then I can go to bed and be done with this. Observations and facts:

- Kadri had a good game last night
- Kadri has great offensive abilities
- Kadri was the best Leaf on face offs, an improvement
- Kadri had a key draw that led to a goal for us
- Kadri lost a key draw that led to a goal against us
- Kadri had an assist in the game and was -2 on the night
- Kadri should get more PP time, it's his strength
- Kadri should not get PK time, it's not his strength
- Playing a more offensive role could be a better showcase for Kadri and will let the Leafs know what they actually have in him

- Bozak had more ice time
- Bozak was used in a more defensive role
- Bozak played against higher quality competition and was the coach's main go to guy against their top line… not my "eye test" that's according to the stats
- Bozak wore the "A"
- Bozak isn't likely to be the main offensive threat
- Bozak should get 2nd line PP time
- Bozak should be on the PK
- Playing in a more defensive role is a better showcase for Bozak

- I'm in the camp of neither player
- Neither player will/should be part of the future
- Bozak will be too old when we are good
- Kadri on a long term deal scares me from an off ice perspective and I don't want the team stuck with a contract they can't move
- Trade Bozak tomorrow and I'm smiling… provided the brass thinks that's where his max value is
- Trade Kadri tomorrow and I'm smiling…. provided the brass thinks that's where his max value is
- If the team decides otherwise and want to sign him, they are in a better position to know. If that happens Kadri will have put up good numbers and cleaned up his act. I'll applaud that as he will be wearing the Maple Leaf

Very fair.

I'd just like to object about Bozak on the PK. He's never been very successful there, barely above replacement level, except on breaks. Not saying that's not good, but you generally want to focus on the defensive part of it at the PK.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I'm pretty consistent here and in every one of my posts. Maybe I frustrate you because you can't paint me into a camp? I don't know but I might as well just type it up here and then I can go to bed and be done with this. Observations and facts:

- Kadri had a good game last night
- Kadri has great offensive abilities
- Kadri was the best Leaf on face offs, an improvement
- Kadri had a key draw that led to a goal for us
- Kadri lost a key draw that led to a goal against us
- Kadri had an assist in the game and was -2 on the night
- Kadri should get more PP time, it's his strength
- Kadri should not get PK time, it's not his strength
- Playing a more offensive role could be a better showcase for Kadri and will let the Leafs know what they actually have in him

- Bozak had more ice time
- Bozak was used in a more defensive role
- Bozak played against higher quality competition and was the coach's main go to guy against their top line… not my "eye test" that's according to the stats
- Bozak wore the "A"
- Bozak isn't likely to be the main offensive threat
- Bozak should get 2nd line PP time
- Bozak should be on the PK
- Playing in a more defensive role is a better showcase for Bozak

- I'm in the camp of neither player
- Neither player will/should be part of the future
- Bozak will be too old when we are good
- Kadri on a long term deal scares me from an off ice perspective and I don't want the team stuck with a contract they can't move
- Trade Kadri tomorrow and I'm smiling…. provided the brass thinks that's where his max value is
- If the team decides otherwise and want to sign him, they are in a better position to know. If that happens Kadri will have put up good numbers and cleaned up his act. I'll applaud that as he will be wearing the Maple Leaf

I can't believe you're including that Kadri lost a face-off that "led to a goal against". It was a highly contested face-off, and our net was empty. Furthermore, Montreal executed an impressive set-play, performed by the two best skaters on their team, to execute it. It's not his fault. At all.

In any other situation, that goal doesn't get scored. It's absurd to consider that as a negative on his night. Sad part is, all of the negatives you mentioned include that empty-netter as a factor.

 

[King85Kong]

I can't believe you're including that Kadri lost a face-off that "led to a goal against". It was a highly contested face-off, and our net was empty. Furthermore, Montreal executed an impressive set-play, performed by the two best skaters on their team, to execute it. It's not his fault. At all.

In any other situation, that goal doesn't get scored. It's absurd to consider that as a negative on his night. Sad part is, all of the negatives you mentioned include that empty-netter as a factor.

Falling on deaf ears. You're talking to someone who is using Montreal's first goal as a negative against Kadri. Kadri was just coming onto the ice when Montreal scored and had no involvement on the play. Yet he passed it off as a negative against him. When in doubt Kadri will be blamed. Zero's across the board for Bozak yet his play is praised. Biased much?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Falling on deaf ears. You're talking to someone who was using Montreal's first goal as a negative against Kadri. Kadri was just coming onto the ice when Montreal scored and had no involvement on the play. Yet he passed it off as a negative against him. When in doubt Kadri will be blamed.

Did anyone ever criticize Bozak for losing a draw and us surrendering an empty-net goal last year?

I can't recall a single time. Maybe someone did. But either way it's ridiculous.

 

[The Apologist]

I can't believe you're including that Kadri lost a face-off that "led to a goal against". It was a highly contested face-off, and our net was empty. Furthermore, Montreal executed an impressive set-play, performed by the two best skaters on their team, to execute it. It's not his fault. At all.

In any other situation, that goal doesn't get scored. It's absurd to consider that as a negative on his night. Sad part is, all of the negatives you mentioned include that empty-netter as a factor.

Did he win or lose the faceoff?

Jesus people, its ok to criticize Nazem. Hes a big boy now, he can handle it.

Heres another negative. He took yet another stupid, pointless penalty early.
He played against lower quality of comp all night.
He still has a tendency to try and do too much on his own.

At the end of the day, Nazem looked like Nazem. People are so desperately entrenched in this stupid totally fan fed 'rivalry' that they are turning mediocre into walking on water.

 

[King85Kong]

Did anyone ever criticize Bozak for losing a draw and us surrendering an empty-net goal last year?

I can't recall a single time. Maybe someone did. But either way it's ridiculous.

Don't remember anyone doing that either. Its an empty net goal. I would be embarrassed of myself if I blamed a player for that.

 

[The Apologist]

Did anyone ever criticize Bozak for losing a draw and us surrendering an empty-net goal last year?

I can't recall a single time. Maybe someone did. But either way it's ridiculous.

Youre right, people are completely balanced and rational when criticizing Bozak.

 

[King85Kong]

Did he win or lose the faceoff?

Jesus people, its ok to criticize Nazem. Hes a big boy now, he can handle it.

Heres another negative. He took yet another stupid, pointless penalty early.
He played against lower quality of comp all night.
He still has a tendency to try and do too much on his own.

At the end of the day, Nazem looked like Nazem. People are so desperately entrenched in this stupid totally fan fed 'rivalry' that they are turning mediocre into walking on water.

Every analyst made mention of him having a good game, yet only a select few on here are making it out that he had a bad game. Wonder why? Its okay to say that he had a good game, and not find minor stuff to whine about. Oh he took a penalty, so what? Complain just to complain.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Did he win or lose the faceoff?

Jesus people, its ok to criticize Nazem. Hes a big boy now, he can handle it.

Heres another negative. He took yet another stupid, pointless penalty early.
He played against lower quality of comp all night.
He still has a tendency to try and do too much on his own.

At the end of the day, Nazem looked like Nazem. People are so desperately entrenched in this stupid totally fan fed 'rivalry' that they are turning mediocre into walking on water.

The penalty was pretty dumb. I actually appreciate that he plays with an edge like that, but I also hate offensive zone penalties.

The quality of competition is reasonable. But he dominated possession. So I wouldn't hold that against him.

Your last point is vague and subjective. I could say that he doesn't do enough on his own, and it would hold just as much weight.

No one is saying he walks on water. His supporters are happy with how he played. For God's sake, he was over 50% on face-offs, and 60% in possession. And he set up a goal. He played really good. What the hell do you want from the guy?

I'm ok with seeing him get criticized. But not for being on the ice for an empty-netter. If that's unreasonable, then I guess that's what I am.

 

[The Apologist]

Every analyst made mention of him having a good game, yet only a select few on here are making it out that he had a bad game. Wonder why? Its okay to say that he had a good game, and not find minor stuff to whine about. Oh he took a penalty, so what? Complain just to complain.

Feel free to point out anywhere in my post that says Nazem had a bad game.

Spoiler
Its not there.

Anyway, no further responses forthcoming. Keep up teh rational, civilized, intelligent hockey discussion these boards have become known for.

I hope Nazem had another awesome flawless performance this weekend!!

 

[The Apologist]

The penalty was pretty dumb. I actually appreciate that he plays with an edge like that, but I also hate offensive zone penalties.

The quality of competition is reasonable. But he dominated possession. So I wouldn't hold that against him.

Your last point is vague and subjective. I could say that he doesn't do enough on his own, and it would hold just as much weight.

No one is saying he walks on water. His supporters are happy with how he played. For God's sake, he was over 50% on face-offs, and 60% in possession. And he set up a goal. He played really good. What the hell do you want from the guy?

I'm ok with seeing him get criticized. But not for being on the ice for an empty-netter. If that's unreasonable, then I guess that's what I am.

Its fair game here. I personally dont fault him on either of his negatives against the Habs. I just find the discussion and double standards hilarious.

And yes, his possession numbers were once again good, but at what point do we step back and ask why coach after coach keeps him away from the other teams top players? Would his possession numbers be as impressive against better players?

And I love when he plays with an edge, but lets call a spade a spade. That was not an edge, that was stupid.

I love Nazem, have since his Knight days.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Youre right, people are completely balanced and rational when criticizing Bozak.

Most criticisms of Bozak involve his sub-par point production with two US Olympic wingers, and the defensive ineptitude, which includes said wingers.

In typical Bozak fashion, he got destroyed possession-wise last night. I actually thought he played ok, given the circumstances. But he certainly didn't play "good". I would hope to see more from him than that this season. Same goes for Lupul.

I think my criticism of Bozak is relatively consistent with that of others.

Do you have an example of unbalanced criticism?

 

[King85Kong]

Feel free to point out anywhere in my post that says Nazem had a bad game.

Spoiler
Its not there.

Anyway, no further responses forthcoming. Keep up teh rational, civilized, intelligent hockey discussion these boards have become known for.

I hope Nazem had another awesome flawless performance this weekend!!

Please point out where I said he was flawless. Hint its not there. If you think he had a good game then why not say so? Instead just come in and point out the negatives. A select few on here will slam Kadri for minor things that they don't do to others.

 

[King85Kong]

Its fair game here. I personally dont fault him on either of his negatives against the Habs. I just find the discussion and double standards hilarious.

And yes, his possession numbers were once again good, but at what point do we step back and ask why coach after coach keeps him away from the other teams top players? Would his possession numbers be as impressive against better players?

And I love when he plays with an edge, but lets call a spade a spade. That was not an edge, that was stupid.

I love Nazem, have since his Knight days.

He often faced the top lines of other teams last season. He played the role that Bozak played last night.

 

[The Apologist]

Please point out where I said he was flawless. Hint its not there. If you think he had a good game then why not say so? Instead just come in and point out the negatives. A select few on here will slam Kadri for minor things that they don't do to others.

Sorry, ai must have read it in the same post I said he had a bad game. And i have said he had a good game. Couple times actually. I dont have to point out what he did well. Its already been said. In fact, someone in here recently posted some valid good and bad points and got torn apart for daring to include the negative.
And yes, some will. Some fans do that to Nazem. Others do it to other Leafs.

They then write posts like the one above complaining when people point out negatives about their favourite player.

 

[King85Kong]

Sorry, ai must have read it in the same post I said he had a bad game. And i have said he had a good game. Couple times actually. I dont have to point out what he did well. Its already been said. In fact, someone in here recently posted some valid good and bad points and got torn apart for daring to include the negative.
And yes, some will. Some fans do that to Nazem. Others do it to other Leafs.

They then write posts like the one above complaining when people point out negatives about their favourite player.

Yet I said Kadri has part blame in the empty net goal for losing the faceoff. I have no problem criticizing Kadri, and have done it countless times. But this was not a game to whine about against him. He was our best player out there.

 

[The Apologist]

Yet I said Kadri has part blame in the empty net goal for losing the faceoff. I have no problem criticizing Kadri, and have done it countless times. But this was not a game to whine about against him. He was our best player out there.

So if he has a decent game we cant point out any errors? Sounda rational to me.

 

[The Apologist]

Most criticisms of Bozak involve his sub-par point production with two US Olympic wingers, and the defensive ineptitude, which includes said wingers.

In typical Bozak fashion, he got destroyed possession-wise last night. I actually thought he played ok, given the circumstances. But he certainly didn't play "good". I would hope to see more from him than that this season. Same goes for Lupul.

I think my criticism of Bozak is relatively consistent with that of others.

Do you have an example of unbalanced criticism?

It is very consistent with that of certain 'others'. Does that make it balanced?

For a few wonderful examples, feel free to check out the other thread. Lots of 'balanced' and rational commentary there.

 

[King85Kong]

So if he has a decent game we cant point out any errors? Sounda rational to me.

Its okay to point them out. I did. But a select few are going on and on and on about it like it cost them the season.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Its fair game here. I personally dont fault him on either of his negatives against the Habs. I just find the discussion and double standards hilarious.

And yes, his possession numbers were once again good, but at what point do we step back and ask why coach after coach keeps him away from the other teams top players? Would his possession numbers be as impressive against better players?

And I love when he plays with an edge, but lets call a spade a spade. That was not an edge, that was stupid.

I love Nazem, have since his Knight days.

I believe he had the toughest QOC last year, didn't he? I'll admit I don't pay much attention to it, since it's been shown to have little variance overall, so that may not be accurate.

In any case, I don't think the best offensive lines for each team are regularly matched up against each other. In a home game, I'd expect to see the top line against the weakest competition possible, given the final line change ability.

Also, it's one game, so I'm not going to ask questions about how Babcock is using players. That could change completely by Saturday.

Kadri played a lot of minutes, and 1st PP. Which is all I want, personally.

I don't care who he plays against, as long as he gets the vast majority of 1st PP time, and plays close to the most at ES.

 

[The Apologist]

Its okay to point them out. I did. But a select few are going on and on and on about it like it cost them the season.

Who?
I have seen one person defending their view on it in a discussion about it.

Hyperbole much?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

It is very consistent with that of certain 'others'. Does that make it balanced?

For a few wonderful examples, feel free to check out the other thread. Lots of 'balanced' and rational commentary there.

In all seriousness, I was speaking for both threads. There's maybe 1 or 2 overly optimistic Kadri supporters that make outlandish comments. Same goes for Bozak, and pretty much every player on HF.

Most of the Bozak criticism has been fair though, from what I've seen.

 

[King85Kong]

Who?
I have seen one person defending their view on it in a discussion about it.

Hyperbole much?

Take a harder look. Look what page we are on.

 

[The Apologist]

Take a harder look. Look what page we are on.

And how much of that is 'OMG, how can you say that aboit Kadri!?!?!

Seriously, who is going over the top negative on Nazem in this thread?