Kadri player discssion thread.

[TLeafsFan]

Based on that? Probably Bozak allowed more.

Based on ice time and who he played against, who had the stronger game defensively in the eyes of the coach? Probably Bozak.

Kadri had a good game but had some work to do as well. Not sure how else I can say that without offending the narrative of perfection.

I wouldn't be so sure. Bozak spent tons more time hemmed in his zone, so he got more ice time, but driving the play forward was something his line and the only Leafs line seemed inept at doing.

 

[wmark]

Based on that? Probably Bozak allowed more.

Based on ice time and who he played against, who had the stronger game defensively in the eyes of the coach? Probably Bozak.

Kadri had a good game but had some work to do as well. Not sure how else I can say that without offending the narrative of perfection.

Pookie, you've been consistently wrong with what you perceive as what Babcock sees.

Bozak line was dominated all night, it was evident.

The 1st goal was Bozak quickly changing and Kadri stepping on the ice. How you can see that as playing bad defensively on Kadri is beyond me.

Kadri was in the offensive zone all night, so who had the stronger defensive games in the eyes of the coach?

 

[Pookie]

Pookie, you've been consistently wrong with what you perceive as what Babcock sees.

Bozak line was dominated all night, it was evident.

The 1st goal was Bozak quickly changing and Kadri stepping on the ice. How you can see that as playing bad defensively on Kadri is beyond me.

Kadri was in the offensive zone all night, so who had the stronger defensive games in the eyes of the coach?

Well, you and I both know it won't matter what I say. Your opinion of my opinion is already set in stone.

What I can say is this. The coach tapped Bozak on the shoulder for 19+ minutes of ice time against Montreal's top line.

This is a coach that rewards hard work and performance with ice time. Babcock also is quoted as saying Kadri's game last night requires more defensive work.

Pretty clear isn't it of what the coach thinks of both players?

I personally think he thinks both are works in progress. Flaws and positives.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Did Bernier make any good saves while the #1 line was on? Stop any chances?

The plus minus thing isn't a debate as far as I'm concerned. It's a fact.

Dismiss or accept it as relevant. Your call.

So plus minus is important to you, Ok you're entitled to your opinion.

Remind me, how did your boy Bozak do in that dept. last season?

 

[SprDaVE]

Really good debut. Over 50% on the draws. Had a few chances and created a couple of them as well. You didn't see many sloppy turnovers from him, which was a big issue in previous years. Now all he has to do is keep that kind of play up and not get lazy.

His line was able to really generate shots without being stuck in their zone very often.

If Bernier had the mental focus of a true #1 starter, Kadri doesn't go -1 when the Leafs were dominating early on.

Anybody that takes +/- straight on and without context doesn't know much about the statistic. I wouldn't waste my time.

 

[Pookie]

So plus minus is important to you, Ok you're entitled to your opinion.

Remind me, how did your boy Bozak do in that dept. last season?

My boy? The one that I would be happy to see traded tomorrow? Horribly. What's your point?

 

[Gary Nylund]

My boy? The one that I would be happy to see traded tomorrow? Horribly. What's your point?

I guess it went over your head but that's ok.

How are we supposed to trade Bozak? According to you, Kadri's trade value is a bag of pucks, Bozak's value is less so we're likely stuck with him for a while.

Maybe we can find a taker at the TDL in the last year of his contract. Hopefully he will have some value at that time.

 

[Mess]

Really good debut. Over 50% on the draws. Had a few chances and created a couple of them as well. You didn't see many sloppy turnovers from him, which was a big issue in previous years. Now all he has to do is keep that kind of play up and not get lazy.

His line was able to really generate shots without being stuck in their zone very often..

It was a positive showing by Naz as a #1C..

He generated offense, played smart with the puck making safer rather than high risk plays and went 7-6 in the FO dot for a 53% winning %, while being tested against the best of the opposition.

He was Leafs best forward on the night I thought.

It was unfortunate he lost that key draw with the goalie out as it resulted in an empty net goal against on a set play by the Habs, but as he gains more experience it will benefit the team more.

 

[Pookie]

How are we supposed to trade Bozak? According to you, Kadri's trade value is a bag of pucks, Bozak's value is less so we're likely stuck with him for a while.

Yep. And what's best for the organization is that you showcase both and give the best chance for success.

You give Kadri the chance to score and not expose his defensive liabilities (ie. playing him against the top line). Get his hands out there on the PP. Keep him off the ice on PK.

You give Bozak the chance to be defensive as he isn't the offensive juggernaut. Shut down is what you expect.

Pretty much what happened last night.

 

[Erndog]

Yep. And what's best for the organization is that you showcase both and give the best chance for success.

You give Kadri the chance to score and not expose his defensive liabilities (ie. playing him against the top line). Get his hands out there on the PP. Keep him off the ice on PK.

You give Bozak the chance to be defensive as he isn't the offensive juggernaut. Shut down is what you expect.

Pretty much what happened last night.

I don't know where Kadri gets this "poor defensively" thing. It's a nice narrative but it's not true.

There was even one instance last night where he is behind his own net, steals the puck from Eller, turns to take it up ice and Eller trips him for a penalty. Kadri was in excellent defensive position for a C and won the battle and drew a call. Yeah, he won't win a Selke, but he's not a liability at all.

 

[SprDaVE]

It was a positive showing by Naz as a #1C..

He generated offense, played smart with the puck making safer rather than high risk plays and went 7-6 in the FO dot for a 53% winning %, while being tested against the best of the opposition.

He was Leafs best forward on the night I thought.

It was unfortunate he lost that key draw with the goalie out as it resulted in an empty net goal against on a set play by the Habs, but as he gains more experience it will benefit the team more.

Good for you Mess. You watched the game and actually give props when you see it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't know where Kadri gets this "poor defensively" thing. It's a nice narrative but it's not true.

There was even one instance last night where he is behind his own net, steals the puck from Eller, turns to take it up ice and Eller trips him for a penalty. Kadri was in excellent defensive position for a C and won the battle and drew a call. Yeah, he won't win a Selke, but he's not a liability at all.

Some people just don't like guy (for whatever reason). Their slogan seems to be:

"We will never compromise with reality"!

 

[Shwaguy*]

Yep. And what's best for the organization is that you showcase both and give the best chance for success.

You give Kadri the chance to score and not expose his defensive liabilities (ie. playing him against the top line). Get his hands out there on the PP. Keep him off the ice on PK.

You give Bozak the chance to be defensive as he isn't the offensive juggernaut. Shut down is what you expect.

Pretty much what happened last night.

But Kadri is leagues better than Bozak defensively and above average compared to the rest of the NHL in his own end.

 

[Pookie]

I don't know where Kadri gets this "poor defensively" thing. It's a nice narrative but it's not true.

Some people just don't like guy (for whatever reason). Their slogan seems to be:

"We will never compromise with reality"!

Well, I think their slogan is that "I'm the best Coach in the NHL"

"He’s got to get better defensively so he plays more time on offense." - Mike Babcock, October 7th, 2015

 

[Mess]

Good for you Mess. You watched the game and actually give props when you see it.

I watch every Leaf game and have for the last decade at least. I can't remember the last time I didn't watch my Leafs in fact.

There are times when players deserve valid criticism for their play, but Kadri was easily the best if not one of the best players in the game for the Leafs along with Rielly and Hunwick I thought.

This was Naz first test under a new coach in a new role and I thought he showed very well in this game and would be surprised if Babcock also didn't believe the #1C experiment wasn't successful.

There are times when a player is lazy on the backcheck, blows his defensive zone coverage or throws the puck away in a high risk play and he deserves a -1 +/- when the team is scored against. However if Bernier can't stop that 1st shot of the game that looked routine, and Naz loses a draw 200ft from his own net and ends up -2 as a result of the situation then singling out Kadri for criticism seems misdirected to me.

In this game Kadri deserved praise and not criticism.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Well, I think their slogan is that "I'm the best Coach in the NHL"

"He’s got to get better defensively so he plays more time on offense." - Mike Babcock, October 7th, 2015

"Get better defensively" =/= Poor defensively

 

[Pookie]

"Get better defensively" =/= Poor defensively

Whatever you want to say.

I didn't use that description… I said you don't expose his defensive liabilities and instead allow him to shine on offense with more PP time.

T'was the Kadri fan that injected "poor defensive abilities" into the discussion.

 

[Duffman955]

Best forward last night. Looked like a #1c, creating chances and keeping the Puck in the oppositions zone

 

[Cotton]

Kadri played great, looked like a 1C... I just hope he can do it consistently.

-snip-
It was unfortunate he lost that key draw with the goalie out as it resulted in an empty net goal against on a set play by the Habs, but as he gains more experience it will benefit the team more.

And he didn't lose it cleanly either.

The steps he's taken to improve on the draw and defensively compared to where he was a couple years back is night and day. I cant even believe there are people in here trying to knock the kid based off of last nights game.

 

[Leaftors]

I watch every Leaf game and have for the last decade at least. I can't remember the last time I didn't watch my Leafs in fact.

There are times when players deserve valid criticism for their play, but Kadri was easily the best if not one of the best players in the game for the Leafs along with Rielly and Hunwick I thought.

This was Naz first test under a new coach in a new role and I thought he showed very well in this game and would be surprised if Babcock also didn't believe the #1C experiment wasn't successful.

There are times when a player is lazy on the backcheck, blows his defensive zone coverage or throws the puck away in a high risk play and he deserves a -1 +/- when the team is scored against. However if Bernier can't stop that 1st shot of the game that looked routine, and Naz loses a draw 200ft from his own net and ends up -2 as a result of the situation then singling out Kadri for criticism seems misdirected to me.

In this game Kadri deserved praise and not criticism.

Couldn't agree more Mess, your posts recently have been spot on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Couldn't agree more Mess, your posts recently have been spot on.

I agree. I've often criticized Mess's posts so it's only fair to give him credit when he deserves it.

Mess!

 

[IBeL34f]

I watch every Leaf game and have for the last decade at least. I can't remember the last time I didn't watch my Leafs in fact.

There are times when players deserve valid criticism for their play, but Kadri was easily the best if not one of the best players in the game for the Leafs along with Rielly and Hunwick I thought.

This was Naz first test under a new coach in a new role and I thought he showed very well in this game and would be surprised if Babcock also didn't believe the #1C experiment wasn't successful.

There are times when a player is lazy on the backcheck, blows his defensive zone coverage or throws the puck away in a high risk play and he deserves a -1 +/- when the team is scored against. However if Bernier can't stop that 1st shot of the game that looked routine, and Naz loses a draw 200ft from his own net and ends up -2 as a result of the situation then singling out Kadri for criticism seems misdirected to me.

In this game Kadri deserved praise and not criticism.

Great post, Mess.

I will admit that as much as I liked Kadri last night, I was hoping Babcock would send out Bozak to take that draw, but I like the confidence it shows that he'd keep Nazem out there and give him the opportunity. Tough to be so hard on him when there were 5 other Leafs on the ice in the offensive zone and they allow an empty-netter.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kadri is stronger. You can see he is not being held up as easily anywhere on the ice. Looked alot tougher to stop.

 

[Duckrider]

Thought the team as a whole played very well. Really liked our mobility on the back end and the cohesive transition from defence to forward. MR and JG were very good for most of the game. Naz looked very good as I thought he might. Bozak looked good at times. But I was most impressed with our bottom 6. They looked to out class their counter parts.

 

[Duckrider]

Kadri is stronger. You can see he is not being held up as easily anywhere on the ice. Looked alot tougher to stop.

Yes very noticeable