Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[NickyFotiu]

No, but it's close to what Mark Stone is and it might be better than what pre-50 goal Chris Kreider was here for a long time.

Not trying to argue here but I think CK was basically a better more impactful player pretty much every season except his rookie season. CK was a lock to score 20 plus goals and when younger he did it with speed and power. Will KK get there? I hope so but not impressed by his play this season.

 

[chosen]

Kakko's grandfather?

 

[mike14]

Kakko's grandfather?

Hopefully the amphetamines got passed down...

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Imo when him and Chytil are back they join Cuylle on a line. I just don't see a connection with him and Zib. Him and Chytil seemed to work together before.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Hopefully the amphetamines got passed down...

*checks five years of notes*

Apparently not.

 

[UnSandvich]

View attachment 783277

You talk about underlying numbers; this is an underlying number - Kakko tanks this line's goal-scoring over 600 minutes. I just wouldn't do this line anymore, because Kreider and Zibanejad together aren't that good at generating possession anymore, but that's neither here nor there. They score with everyone but Kakko.

People always want to give him opportunities. It's hard to give him opportunities when your top offensive players score less when he's on the ice with them.

You can argue that Kakko was tanking that lines numbers, but I think it’s an equally fair point to say they were tanking his too. Kreider and Zibanejad were both pretty mediocre (at best) 5v5 earlier this season.

Notice Kakko’s numbers also jump up almost a full goal/60 when away from them

 

[NickyFotiu]

Does anyone remember what numbers KK put up in the offseason tournament he played in last summer?

Edit: I just saw 8 games 1 goal 5 assists.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed but looking at his numbers I'm concerned he may never be a large scorer. Hope he is. Seems like a good kid.

 

[fm]

Kakko's grandfather?

Hope not. Not too many 'good guys' fighting the Soviets by 1944 lol. Beats guard tower duty I guess..

 

[B17 Apricots]

Not trying to argue here but I think CK was basically a better more impactful player pretty much every season except his rookie season. CK was a lock to score 20 plus goals and when younger he did it with speed and power. Will KK get there? I hope so but not impressed by his play this season.

To be fair last year Kakko was 21/22, he hit the 40 mark. At that age Kreider was in the AHL and only put up 23 points in 48 games. Scoring was a little lower at the time. The following year in his rookie NHL season Kreider had 37 points in 66 games. 12 of those points came on the PP. The following 2 seasons he was in the 40s. Kreider didn't notch a 50 point season until he turned 25.

Kakko has been quiet this year. He's made some plays on that top line that weren't converted on, his point totals could look much different. Overall the line just didn't click.. I'd say it's more indicative of how ineffective all of them have been rather than Kakko just being awful. I'm looking forward to Chytil and Kakko together.

Kreider and Zibanejad have done a whole lotta nothing at 5v5. It's bad. To put it in perspective, they're both on pace to put up 25 points 5v5 this year. Those are numbers you'd see from a 3rd liner. This is not because of Kakko, Wheeler or anyone else. They're getting their chances and not capitalizing. Zibanejad is consistently passing up opportunities. I dont expect that pace to stay but something clearly has to change. They can still blow each other kisses and hug at the end of the game but if things don't get going you need to separate the lovers.

 

[NickyFotiu]

To be fair last year Kakko was 21/22, he hit the 40 mark. At that age Kreider was in the AHL and only put up 23 points in 48 games. Scoring was a little lower at the time. The following year in his rookie NHL season Kreider had 37 points in 66 games. 12 of those points came on the PP. The following 2 seasons he was in the 40s. Kreider didn't notch a 50 point season until he turned 25.

Kakko has been quiet this year. He's made some plays on that top line that weren't converted on, his point totals could look much different. Overall the line just didn't click.. I'd say it's more indicative of how ineffective all of them have been rather than Kakko just being awful. I'm looking forward to Chytil and Kakko together.

Kreider and Zibanejad have done a whole lotta nothing at 5v5. It's bad. To put it in perspective, they're both on pace to put up 25 points 5v5 this year. Those are numbers you'd see from a 3rd liner. This is not because of Kakko, Wheeler or anyone else. They're getting their chances and not capitalizing. Zibanejad is consistently passing up opportunities. I dont expect that pace to stay but something clearly has to change. They can still blow each other kisses and hug at the end of the game but if things don't get going you need to separate the lovers.

CK was older and I'm not writing KK off. I do think CK was a much greater threat to score goals though. CK was pretty much a lock to score 20 plus goals every season. He scored some on the PP and that is a plus not a negative. He was playing on the PP because he was good and he was not playing huge minutes in those days. CK has played 12 years. Only his rookie year was he not a lock for 20 goals imo. Hopefully KK can get there as well but his start this season is a concern.

 

[LOFIN]

Hope not. Not too many 'good guys' fighting the Soviets by 1944 lol. Beats guard tower duty I guess..

We (as in Finland) were not the bad guys, but we were fighting with them. Against the other bad guys.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Not to mention, Brodzinski doubled Kakkos offensive output for the season in just 6 games since being called up to essentially play in his spot.

3 wins in each of the games he put up points, including that huge PP goal to put them up by 2 against a very good Kings team. It works both ways

Kakko's presence is definitely missed defensively, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Oh, he got PP1 time and got points? Imagine that.

Focusing on points instead of process and usage in a young developing player is how you let a Buchenevich go.

The poster I replied to said "I compare him to Valeri Nichushkin."

There's currently no basis for that. For every guy that turned around their career like Nuchishkin did, there's 20 that never figured it out. He could just as easily be Puljujarvi who had a similar profile and is still a 4th liner at 25.

The basis is a young big strong winger who had great defensive metrics but the offensive points weren't coming.

But to say they're on very similar trajectories is to ignore that Nichushkin's trajectory took an exponential spike, or to assume that the same would happen to Kakko.

It's being framed as though Nuchushkin improved every single year into the player he is outside of that one season. That's not what happened. What happened is that he went from a career-high 0.38 PPG in 2021 to 0.83 PPG in 2022. That type of increase in production is exceedingly rare.

It's the same thing as the Lehtinen comparisons. Both players scored at a rate Kakko has never approached.

Most forwards' primes are in their early to mid 20's in terms of production. Anything can happen. Kakko can win the Hart someday. "Can" is not a basis for projection.

You're being a bit too literal. No comparisons are ever EXACTLY the same in every facet.

 

[FlyguyOX]

To be fair last year Kakko was 21/22, he hit the 40 mark. At that age Kreider was in the AHL and only put up 23 points in 48 games. Scoring was a little lower at the time. The following year in his rookie NHL season Kreider had 37 points in 66 games. 12 of those points came on the PP. The following 2 seasons he was in the 40s. Kreider didn't notch a 50 point season until he turned 25.

Kakko has been quiet this year. He's made some plays on that top line that weren't converted on, his point totals could look much different. Overall the line just didn't click.. I'd say it's more indicative of how ineffective all of them have been rather than Kakko just being awful. I'm looking forward to Chytil and Kakko together.

Kreider and Zibanejad have done a whole lotta nothing at 5v5. It's bad. To put it in perspective, they're both on pace to put up 25 points 5v5 this year. Those are numbers you'd see from a 3rd liner. This is not because of Kakko, Wheeler or anyone else. They're getting their chances and not capitalizing. Zibanejad is consistently passing up opportunities. I dont expect that pace to stay but something clearly has to change. They can still blow each other kisses and hug at the end of the game but if things don't get going you need to separate the lovers.

Exactly, so what is the harm in giving your young talent the most talented players to play with to keep developing him? Long-term focus should've been considered, not putting a boomer up there to reward him for his careers work rather than his ability today.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

This is my concern with Kaapo: he doesn't seem to be able to make high danger passes. He's the #1 worst forward on the team at High Danger Passes/60 (only player below him Jim Vesey in below graphic but the data is messed up/has him at 0.00)

He's actually regressed well below his previous years High Danger/60

So it seems he doesn't really work on the Zibanejad line so far. But where to slot him other than that? In a lineup lacking RWs somehow he doesn't have an obvious place.

Hope he comes back soon and gets more time with Zib and CK. Wish he could have this full season just playing with them and learning from them, that's more important than metrics from 20 game samples

 

[LOFIN]

In a lineup lacking RWs somehow he doesn't have an obvious place.

Cuylle - Chytil - Kakko

 

[LOFIN]

I feel like this is a relevant quote in terms of some people here thinking "coaching doesn't matter, it's all on the player".

And no, I'm not saying Laviolette is a bad coach, absolutely not, we are leading the conference. Team is doing great, and Kakko has to look in the mirror. Just an overall observation about the fact that some of these guys could still use some individual coaching and hopefully we have the assistant coaches and skill coaches to do that. Ristolainen is turning 30 next year, and he's feeling like he's still developing his game. Surely we can still put some time and effort on our young players, even if we are trying to win. Salary cap doesn't prevent us from hiring an individual coach for each of our prospects, if we wanted to.

 

[McRanger92]

I feel like this is a relevant quote in terms of some people here thinking "coaching doesn't matter, it's all on the player".

And no, I'm not saying Laviolette is a bad coach, absolutely not, we are leading the conference. Team is doing great, and Kakko has to look in the mirror. Just an overall observation about the fact that some of these guys could still use some individual coaching and hopefully we have the assistant coaches and skill coaches to do that. Ristolainen is turning 30 next year, and he's feeling like he's still developing his game. Surely we can still put some time and effort on our young players, even if we are trying to win. Salary cap doesn't prevent us from hiring an individual coach for each of our prospects, if we wanted to.

Do we really need a specialized coach to tell Kakko to stop overhandling the puck and go to the damn net?

 

[bhamill]

Do we really need a specialized coach to tell Kakko to stop overhandling the puck and go to the damn net?

Nope. He just needs the confidence to be decisive with and without the puck.

 

[LOFIN]

Do we really need a specialized coach to tell Kakko to stop overhandling the puck and go to the damn net?

If that's what it takes to get the most out of your 2nd overall pick? Yes.

For f***s sake, the Rangers are one of the richest franchises in the country, yet are restricted by the salary cap when it comes to the players. They are not restricted in getting them the best coaches and conditions available.

For what it's worth, I don't think the issue with Kakko right now is coaching, it's confidence. But that's something that could've been done before, and not for him alone.

 

[McRanger92]

If that's what it takes to get the most out of your 2nd overall pick? Yes.

For f***s sake, the Rangers are one of the richest franchises in the country, yet are restricted by the salary cap when it comes to the players. They are not restricted in getting them the best coaches and conditions available.

The Rangers hired an entirely new coaching staff 6 months ago lol

 

[LOFIN]

The Rangers hired an entirely new coaching staff 6 months ago lol

They did, and they are doing a damn good job, as is evident by looking at the standings. The current issues with Kakko have nothing to do with coaching IMO.

It was more of a general comment on the fact that even NHL players can be coached individually. Some people here don't think that is the case.

 

[McRanger92]

They did, and they are doing a damn good job, as is evident by looking at the standings.

It was more of a general comment on the fact that even NHL players can be coached individually. Some people here don't think that is the case.

Like Lavi did with Laf. Kakko’s problems are between his ears.

 

[LOFIN]

Like Lavi did with Laf. Kakko’s problems are between his ears.

Regarding this season, 100%. We saw what he can do last season. As for his overall issues, I think there definitely is still individual coaching that could and should be done. Especially regarding skating and shooting. A lot of this happens during the offseason, so it's also up to him, but if he gets the wrong type of training maybe the team should step in?

 

[McRanger92]

Regarding this season, 100%. We saw what he can do last season. As for his overall issues, I think there definitely is still individual coaching that could and should be done. Especially regarding skating and shooting. A lot of this happens during the offseason, so it's also up to him, but if he gets the wrong type of training maybe the team should step in?

It’s widely reported he trains with Rantanen and Lehkonen, no? Which is surprising because he plays nothing like them

 

[FlyguyOX]

If that's what it takes to get the most out of your 2nd overall pick? Yes.

For f***s sake, the Rangers are one of the richest franchises in the country, yet are restricted by the salary cap when it comes to the players. They are not restricted in getting them the best coaches and conditions available.

For what it's worth, I don't think the issue with Kakko right now is coaching, it's confidence. But that's something that could've been done before, and not for him alone.

His issue is confidence because of the coaching. Both coaches yanked him quickly from great usage despite underlying numbers and process being great.

Like Lavi did with Laf. Kakko’s problems are between his ears.

Gee wonder why.

Imagine you’re Kakko - finally get the great usage you’ve been wanting and are holding the stick a little tight, but still dominating the chances battle and have been unlucky with lines piss poor shot %. Coach pulls you off in favor of a boomer everyone can tell is wayyyyy past his prime and you’re relegated back to a checking line that’s barely NHL caliber. In his entire NHL career he’s never had a coach show confidence in him being a difference maker.

No wonder he has no confidence.