Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[LeetchisGod]

I would love for them to start transitioning Kakko into a real lock-down defender. I do not think the offense is going to come around; why not try and expand the already solid aspects of his game? Mainly defense and puck control. Have him be a cycling God that you throw out there against the top line.

40-45 points with lock-down defense is at least a valuable player to keep around.

I like this idea a lot. I don't think it's a coincidence that our goals against has gone up since he's been out.

 

[NYR Viper]

I would love for them to start transitioning Kakko into a real lock-down defender. I do not think the offense is going to come around; why not try and expand the already solid aspects of his game? Mainly defense and puck control. Have him be a cycling God that you throw out there against the top line.

40-45 points with lock-down defense is at least a valuable player to keep around.

Especially if those 40-45 points are mainly at 5v5. That's a top-6 forward that you're describing also

 

[McRanger92]

I would love for them to start transitioning Kakko into a real lock-down defender. I do not think the offense is going to come around; why not try and expand the already solid aspects of his game? Mainly defense and puck control. Have him be a cycling God that you throw out there against the top line.

40-45 points with lock-down defense is at least a valuable player to keep around.

This would be ideal but Kakko needs to understand that's his path, instead of trying to be a top 6 dangler

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I'm fine with if Kakko becomes a defensive power forward, but my biggest issue with his play is he's not mean enough to create space. Jagr is widely considered the blueprint as far as a puck control in the corners, clean player, yet even he would throw an elbow in the corner, or throw you off him if you tried to hook or hold him. Some of that was how he got the space to score all the points he did. Not only would he physically dominate you and wear you out, but you were going to come away with a few bumps and bruises, and if you retaliated, you were either going to end up shorthanded, or Jagr would just laugh it off and keep outworking you along the wall.

While he got to 40 points last year, I'd hardly say he's a lock for it in a given season. The game is only getting faster. He can't be slow and try to play a big man's game but be afraid to be mean every once in a while. He's strong on the puck, but he's not strong enough on the puck, and he doesn't seem to have the sheer willpower to get off the wall under an average defenseman's pressure.

I really think he needs to cut the happy go lucky crap, nice guy, Lady Byng contender...and go Dark Kakko when he comes back.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm fine with if Kakko becomes a defensive power forward, but my biggest issue with his play is he's not mean enough to create space. Jagr is widely considered the blueprint as far as a puck control in the corners, clean player, yet even he would throw an elbow in the corner, or throw you off him if you tried to hook or hold him. Some of that was how he got the space to score all the points he did. Not only would he physically dominate you and wear you out, but you were going to come away with a few bumps and bruises, and if you retaliated, you were either going to end up shorthanded, or Jagr would just laugh it off and keep outworking you along the wall.

While he got to 40 points last year, I'd hardly say he's a lock for it in a given season. The game is only getting faster. He can't be slow and try to play a big man's game but be afraid to be mean every once in a while. He's strong on the puck, but he's not strong enough on the puck, and he doesn't seem to have the sheer willpower to get off the wall under an average defenseman's pressure.

I really think he needs to cut the happy go lucky crap, nice guy, Lady Byng contender...and go Dark Kakko when he comes back.

He cant be slow and soft and expect to succeed

 

[Machinehead]

One of the strangest things about Kakko -and it really hurts his game as somebody who needs to thrive off of power and puck control- is that you can basically pull out a gun a shoot him and they won't call anything.

Obviously, guys like Avery and Lemieux annoyed officials, but I can't think of a clean player as referee-averse as Kakko. They just never help him. I don't know if it's his lack of speed, or his unwillingness to sell calls because he's a nice man, or just his general awkward movements, or some combination thereof, but you can pretty much do anything to him as a defender and get away with it.

Would it help if he just elbowed the bastard the next time somebody is going for a ski on his back? It couldn't hurt at this point.

 

[OrlandK]

I'm fine with if Kakko becomes a defensive power forward, but my biggest issue with his play is he's not mean enough to create space. Jagr is widely considered the blueprint as far as a puck control in the corners, clean player, yet even he would throw an elbow in the corner, or throw you off him if you tried to hook or hold him. Some of that was how he got the space to score all the points he did. Not only would he physically dominate you and wear you out, but you were going to come away with a few bumps and bruises, and if you retaliated, you were either going to end up shorthanded, or Jagr would just laugh it off and keep outworking you along the wall.

While he got to 40 points last year, I'd hardly say he's a lock for it in a given season. The game is only getting faster. He can't be slow and try to play a big man's game but be afraid to be mean every once in a while. He's strong on the puck, but he's not strong enough on the puck, and he doesn't seem to have the sheer willpower to get off the wall under an average defenseman's pressure.

I really think he needs to cut the happy go lucky crap, nice guy, Lady Byng contender...and go Dark Kakko when he comes back.

Agree 100%. However, for Kakko to succeed as a middle 6 defense oriented forward he has to be willing to hit, which he has never done before. If he would throw the body, he could be effective as a Jesper Fast type with a little more offense. At this point that is likely is best path forward to NHL success.

 

[NYR Viper]

One of the strangest things about Kakko -and it really hurts his game as somebody who needs to thrive off of power and puck control- is that you can basically pull out a gun a shoot him and they won't call anything.

Obviously, guys like Avery and Lemieux annoyed officials, but I can't think of a clean player as referee-averse as Kakko. They just never help him. I don't know if it's his lack of speed, or his unwillingness to sell calls because he's a nice man, or just his general awkward movements, or some combination thereof, but you can pretty much do anything to him as a defender and get away with it.

Would it help if he just elbowed the bastard the next time somebody is going for a ski on his back? It couldn't hurt at this point.

I have noticed this myself. I think it's because he fights through stuff

 

[TGWL]

This would be ideal but Kakko needs to understand that's his path, instead of trying to be a top 6 dangler

I don't don't think he sees himself that way. Turning into that limits the money. I suppose you can argue sticking at the NHL and making money is better than potentially being out of the NHL, but I still think he's banking on himself to be a legit top 6 player.

He's reached 40 points, once, while shooting almost 15%. I think 40-50 might be outside of a realistic expectation if we're putting him simply as the defensive, lock-down, responsible player. I also can't see any line where they're going to cycle and control play against the other teams top line, without limiting our actual productive players. Aside from Vesey, the rest of the team isn't good enough for that.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I would love for them to start transitioning Kakko into a real lock-down defender. I do not think the offense is going to come around; why not try and expand the already solid aspects of his game? Mainly defense and puck control. Have him be a cycling God that you throw out there against the top line.

40-45 points with lock-down defense is at least a valuable player to keep around.

I think thats kinda why hes attractive on the top line with Mika too. Match up against the other teams top players, get Jan Erixon in here to teach him the shadow game. Otherwise you are giving too much time to a lower line

He controls pucks, takeaways and who knows maybe his offense comes around with it. He could do this on the 3rd line as well, but given the lack of depth on the right side I'd give him another shot rather than have Wheeler there.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

wtf is he doing playing Goalie at the WJC when he should be rehabbing?

 

[bhamill]

I don't don't think he sees himself that way. Turning into that limits the money. I suppose you can argue sticking at the NHL and making money is better than potentially being out of the NHL, but I still think he's banking on himself to be a legit top 6 player.

He's reached 40 points, once, while shooting almost 15%. I think 40-50 might be outside of a realistic expectation if we're putting him simply as the defensive, lock-down, responsible player. I also can't see any line where they're going to cycle and control play against the other teams top line, without limiting our actual productive players. Aside from Vesey, the rest of the team isn't good enough for that.

He reached 40 pts once... yes as a 21-22 year old, improving over his previous year of 18 in 43 games. Kakko shot 14.4% last year, closer to 14 than 15, 11.3 the year before. Not a wild outlier. If you adjusted his goal total it drops from 18 to about 14. 36 points rather than 40...
He's a developing player who still hasn't filled in and gotten his man strength. I don't think 50 points on the regular is unrealistic at all. Topping out at 40 points (or 36) as a 21 to 22 year old would be the outlier. A player adding another 10-15 points by the time he's 24-25 is way more the normal expectation.

 

[TGWL]

He reached 40 pts once... yes as a 21-22 year old, improving over his previous year of 18 in 43 games. Kakko shot 14.4% last year, closer to 14 than 15, 11.3 the year before. Not a wild outlier. If you adjusted his goal total it drops from 18 to about 14. 36 points rather than 40...
He's a developing player who still hasn't filled in and gotten his man strength. I don't think 50 points on the regular is unrealistic at all. Topping out at 40 points (or 36) as a 21 to 22 year old would be the outlier. A player adding another 10-15 points by the time he's 24-25 is way more the normal expectation.

I think you're looking at it a little differently than the way I intended it. It's not that Kakko can't improve. It's that you take a player you don't view as having more offensive talent (according to the initial post) and you turn that player into a defensive, lock-down player, and still expect production to be better, or on par with the players previous career year. I think expectations are a bit high.

 

[McRanger92]

Im a Kakko critic but he should go back on the top line when he returns

 

[bhamill]

I think you're looking at it a little differently than the way I intended it. It's not that Kakko can't improve. It's that you take a player you don't view as having more offensive talent (according to the initial post) and you turn that player into a defensive, lock-down player, and still expect production to be better, or on par with the players previous career year. I think expectations are a bit high.

Fair enough, but honestly him playing lockdown isn’t much different from what he did last year, but if he’s playing on a line where his linemates have not got much offense and are keying on D only, then yeah, he may have trouble getting to 40-50 points.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

So excited to have him back in the lineup. Hoping he’s in the right state of mind for a strong second half of the season.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Kaako should be watching tape of Mark Stone. He's close in his play anticipation but Stone would be the elite version of what we want Kaako to be in terms of size and lack of foot speed.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Im a Kakko critic but he should go back on the top line when he returns

Over Wheeler? Absolute no brainer. Wheeler needs to be on the bottom 6.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

Over Wheeler? Absolute no brainer. Wheeler needs to be on the bottom 6.

....in Hartford.

 

[mas0764]

Kaako should be watching tape of Mark Stone. He's close in his play anticipation but Stone would be the elite version of what we want Kaako to be in terms of size and lack of foot speed.

Yeah I think that player (Stone) is still a possible outcome for Kakko.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yeah I think that player (Stone) is still a possible outcome for Kakko.

I don’t think so, his playmaking and vision isn’t on that level.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

wtf is he doing playing Goalie at the WJC when he should be rehabbing?

Didn't you see? He's also San Jose's backup goalie.

/s

I don’t think so, his playmaking and vision isn’t on that level.

Nor is his physicality and strength.

His skating balance is, but I don't see much else.

Off the top of my head, I really can't think of a good comp for him since most skilled players with his body type are faster than he is, and the ones that aren't tend to play a meaner game than he does. In terms of offensive playstyle, Marcel Hossa maybe, but Kakko is both stronger and a better player, and much better defensively. Maybe Ville Leino? But Leino was a faster skater and less reliable defensively.

IMO he should offensively be modeling his game after Jagr, Marian Hossa, or prime Voracek even if his vision/playmaking and shot don't quite match up there yet. Those guys were physical in the corners even though they didn't necessarily "hit" people. Kakko fights to stay strong on his skates, but he doesn't fight to make space for himself or to take the puck to the net. And it's the biggest thing holding him back. You're not a grinder who's such a liability that every time you're on the ice you want to muck plays up along the boards and keep it there because it means you're not getting outskated on the backcheck and giving up Grade A's. You should be creating offense. Use the play along the wall to wear your opponent down, then take it to the net. Can't just play along the wall forever, or keep it cycling for a minute never getting to a scoring area thinking that creates goals.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah, but many people, possibly many of the same people, were saying they "didn't see it" with Laf and that he didn't do anything well.

And now we know conclusively it was basically his own confidence and knowledge of what to do on-ice, and now you see it.

I get the same vibe from Kakko. Yeah, what we saw in the first 20 games doesn't look anything like Mark Stone, but there is a player in there who is capable of putting up more skills on tape once he gets confidence.

Unfortunately I think the last two coaches hammered too much offensive instinct out of him with insistence that he overcommit to defense that it might be too late in some regards.

 

[will1066]

 

[The Crypto Guy]

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