Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yea people are misremembering Blais.

Injury prone for sure, but he would put up 35-40 points and play a solid all around physical game over a full 82.

I would be shocked if he and Goodrow weren't making up 2/3 of next year's 3rd line.

This team with healthy, Blais Kakko and Motte would be a force

Kreider - Mika - Vatrano
Panarin - Strome - Copp
Lafreniere - Goodrow - Kakko
Motte - Chytil - Blais

Hunt, Reaves, Rooney

You could do whatever you want with the bottom 6. Basically two 3rd lines

 

[Mikachu93]

He was pacing for 23 points this year, not 35-40, and putting him on a line with Goodrow is a sure fire way to guarantee that he doesn't exceed that pace next year.

He was fairly snake bitten in those games and the team as a whole was an offensive black hole.

I really am not understanding the hate for Goodrow, who has played in all situations for this team and put up the same numbers Jesper Fast used to.

 

[mas0764]

This team with healthy, Blais Kakko and Motte would be a force

Kreider - Mika - Vatrano
Panarin - Strome - Copp
Lafreniere - Goodrow - Kakko
Motte - Chytil - Blais

Hunt, Reaves, Rooney

You could do whatever you want with the bottom 6. Basically two 3rd lines

Other than swapping Goodrow and Chytil this is a very deep group which is nice. You'd like an upgrade to Strome at 2C but otherwise you have the makings of a team that's competitive on every line (unlike how we were in the first part of the year). But if you see guys like Blais moving up in the lineup, it gets weaker.

 

[mas0764]

He was fairly snake bitten in those games and the team as a whole was an offensive black hole.

I really am not understanding the hate for Goodrow, who has played in all situations for this team and put up the same numbers Jesper Fast used to.

Jesper Fast is actually having a way better season than Barclay Goodrow right now, like it's not even close. I don't "hate" Goodrow but like a few players on our roster he's getting too much love from our fanbase right now. He's better on the fourth line where he's a better player than the ones he's facing, as opposed to the third line where he's more of an even draw or negative.

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And maybe the reason that the team was snakebitten was because it had too many Sammy Blaises in the lineup. It remained snakebitten until good players like Vatrano and Copp were added.

 

[bhamill]

Blais is not a middle sixer. He's a bottom sixer. He's average on the third line and a plus on the fourth line. If he's on your second line something is very wrong.

Hunt is a scratch/AHLer though, so it's accurate to say that Blais is better than Hunt.

This is fair, I think Blais is a solid 3rd liner who can play up if NEEDED, but he shouldn't be there. If he's on your 4th line I'd say you are in a very good position.

 

[Mikachu93]

Jesper Fast is actually having a way better season than Barclay Goodrow right now, like it's not even close.

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I didn't realize his impacts were that strong. Definitely miss Quickie, one of the most underappreciated players in the league IMO.

I meant raw offensive production though, in which case both players are tracking for 30-35 point seasons.

 

[bhamill]

He was pacing for 23 points this year, not 35-40, and putting him on a line with Goodrow is a sure fire way to guarantee that he doesn't exceed that pace next year.

Well he played 14 games... last season he paced 34.

 

[mas0764]

Well he played 14 games... last season he paced 34.

Well he now has a sample size of like 5 years in the league and he doesn't ever meet expectations. He's always injured, or not producing, or whatever.

At some point the player is what he is. He'll eventually produce an outlier season of 30 points or so at age 28 and everyone will say "See, this is what he is!" and then he'll regress the following season because any little thing not coming up Blais is enough to sink his production. It's the hallmark of a player who should be deployed in a lower setting.

I like him on the fourth line.

But with what we have in hand I don't want him as a third liner on this roster next year. Without a single addition I like

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Copp - Kakko
Goodrow - Chytil - Kravtsov

better than putting Blais on the third line.

And if we can add another player to that top 9 (ie, Othmann surprises, we can work some cap magic to keep Vatrano, etc) then Goodrow is moved off first.

But again, it's not to say there's zero value there. I would love a Goodrow-Blais pairing on the fourth line. That matchup dominates other fourth lines and helps you win games consistently.

 

[bhamill]

Jesper Fast is actually having a way better season than Barclay Goodrow right now, like it's not even close. I don't "hate" Goodrow but like a few players on our roster he's getting too much love from our fanbase right now. He's better on the fourth line where he's a better player than the ones he's facing, as opposed to the third line where he's more of an even draw or negative.

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And maybe the reason that the team was snakebitten was because it had too many Sammy Blaises in the lineup. It remained snakebitten until good players like Vatrano and Copp were added.

Yeah.
Goodrow 73 games 13 goals 17 assists for 30 points +13 118 hits.
Fast 76 games 12 goals 18 assists for 30 points +20 102 hits.
NOT EVEN CLOSE...
Plus Goodrow stands up for his teammates and brings that physical edge the NYR were missing.
You can like Fast better, but not even close? That's nuts. I wonder who the players on the team like having more?

 

[mas0764]

Yeah.
Goodrow 73 games 13 goals 17 assists for 30 points +13 118 hits.
Fast 76 games 12 goals 18 assists for 30 points +20 102 hits.
NOT EVEN CLOSE...

It's not just about points.

The GSVA numbers tell a huge story.

Plus Goodrow stands up for his teammates and brings that physical edge the NYR were missing.
You can like Fast better, but not even close? That's nuts. I wonder who the players on the team like having more?

You don't think Fast brought intangibles?

Also I don't really care who the players like more. What the players want is irrelevant. The players don't always know what is good for them, it's why they play, coaches coach, and GMs acquire talent.

 

[Kords]

This team with healthy, Blais Kakko and Motte would be a force

Kreider - Mika - Vatrano
Panarin - Strome - Copp
Lafreniere - Goodrow - Kakko
Motte - Chytil - Blais

Hunt, Reaves, Rooney

You could do whatever you want with the bottom 6. Basically two 3rd lines

This was my initial point before the Blais derail (sorry!).

Bummed we never got to see what this squad could look like fully healthy.

 

[bhamill]

Well he now has a sample size of like 5 years in the league and he doesn't ever meet expectations. He's always injured, or not producing, or whatever.

At some point the player is what he is. He'll eventually produce an outlier season of 30 points or so at age 28 and everyone will say "See, this is what he is!" and then he'll regress the following season because any little thing not coming up Blais is enough to sink his production. It's the hallmark of a player who should be deployed in a lower setting.

I like him on the fourth line.

But with what we have in hand I don't want him as a third liner on this roster next year. Without a single addition I like

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Panarin - Copp - Kakko
Goodrow - Chytil - Kravtsov

better than putting Blais on the third line.

And if we can add another player to that top 9 (ie, Othmann surprises, we can work some cap magic to keep Vatrano, etc) then Goodrow is moved off first.

But again, it's not to say there's zero value there. I would love a Goodrow-Blais pairing on the fourth line. That matchup dominates other fourth lines and helps you win games consistently.

Or he will score 35 consistently.... how the hell do you know what will be an outlier? Hahaha. He paced for 34 last year. If he stays healthy I'd actually expect more. Sure you can say "He's always hurt, we should move on." I see your logic there even if I think we should QO him, but to say 30 points would be an outlier reeks of still being mad that he is what came back in the Buch trade.

 

[bhamill]

It's not just about points.

The GSVA numbers tell a huge story.



You don't think Fast brought intangibles?

You said it's not even close. It could hardly be any closer. Yes Fast brought intangibles. Not a Cup win though, right? I still say I'd like to hear who the folks in the NYR locker room prefer having there.

 

[mas0764]

Or he will score 35 consistently.... how the hell do you know what will be an outlier? Hahaha.

Well maybe all of a sudden Barclay Goodrow will score 50 goals next year. How do we know he won't?

Um, you can scout the player and see his talent. Blais doesn't have enough to be a consistent 40 point scorer in this league.

He paced for 34 last year. If he stays healthy I'd actually expect more. Sure you can say "He's always hurt, we should move on." I see your logic there even if I think we should QO him, but to say 30 points would be an outlier reeks of still being mad that he is what came back in the Buch trade.

And he paced for 23 this year. His career ppg is .29... that would be 27 points a year. He's 25 years old. This is what he is. He's not a 35-40 point player.

And putting him with Goodrow will depress any pace he'd be on because Goodrow is generally a no-event player, he does not drive or create offense at all. Him with Blais would be a recipe for zero top-9 caliber offense driving.

They'd be a very nice fourth line though.

 

[mas0764]

You said it's not even close. It could hardly be any closer.

Did you look at the GSVA? They are on complete opposite ends of the chart. Fast has been an excellent top 6 player and Goodrow profiles as a fourth liner.

 

[chosen]

The injuries this season have been pretty unreal. Basically haven't had a full squad for any real stretch since like game 8 or so when Blais went down.

Far less injuries than a lot of other teams.

 

[bhamill]

Well maybe all of a sudden Barclay Goodrow will score 50 goals next year. How do we know he won't?

Um, you can scout the player and see his talent. Blais doesn't have enough to be a consistent 40 point scorer in this league.



And he paced for 23 this year. His career ppg is .29... that would be 27 points a year. He's 25 years old. This is what he is. He's not a 35-40 point player.

And putting him with Goodrow will depress any pace he'd be on because Goodrow is generally a no-event player, he does not drive or create offense at all. Him with Blais would be a recipe for zero top-9 caliber offense driving.

They'd be a very nice fourth line though.

Hahaha. you are taking his average (.29) from 21 years old to a shortened 25 season and saying "That's what he is" even though his 24 year old season was .4 ppg. Players develop as they get older. If you wanted to take last year and this, as a 24 and 25 year player that would be way more reasonable and yet still just opinion. Lots of big physical player don't peak till after 25. Especially if they have been hindered by injuries.
Goodrow scoring 50 is a real nice Red Herring though. Hahaha.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Unf***ingbelievable. “Week to week” then GG tries to say he hopes he’s back in 3-4 games. Yea i’m sure. Might as well call KK done for the year. This blows


Oh and at anyone saying Hunt is anywhere even near the ballpark that Blais is. Hunt is a average 4th player, nothing more. Just because GG has a crush on him and plays him up the lineup doesn’t mean he should actually be there.

 

[chosen]

He was much older than the chosen one when he put up those numbers lol, you think Blais has a higher ceiling than Kravtsov?

Don't drag me into this.

 

[mas0764]

Hahaha. you are taking his average (.29) from 21 years old to a shortened 25 season and saying "That's what he is" even though his 24 year old season was .4 ppg. Players develop as they get older. If you wanted to take last year and this, as a 24 and 25 year player that would be way more reasonable and yet still just opinion. Lots of big physical player don't peak till after 25.
Goodrow scoring 50 is a real nice Red Herring though. Hahaha.

Blais' career average is 0.29 ppg.

If you think his career average doesn't encapsulate who he is, then his most recent sampling this year, with the talent on THIS team that he's likely to be surrounded by moving forward, in a year in which he actually played some on the second line, is a sad-looking 0.23 ppg.

That isn't good enough either? So now we are projecting on his age 24 season when he averaged 0.40 ppg in 36 games ..... why again???

Sounds like you are just cherry picking his best 36 game output. He's never done that before and there's no reason to believe he will again. If you go back to the year before it was just 0.33 ppg. Right back at 27 points per game. (His career average of 0.29 ppg yields 24 points over 82 games).

Even 0.4 ppg yields a measly 32 points per game. You know, the cherry picked one 36 game sample when he was able to sustain that in 5 years.

Blais is not a 0.4 ppg player and he's DEFINITELY not a 35-40 point player.

 

[chosen]

Well he now has a sample size of like 5 years in the league and he doesn't ever meet expectations. He's always injured, or not producing, or whatever....

Kakko now has a sample of like 3 years.

 

[bhamill]

Blais' career average is 0.29 ppg.

If you think his career average doesn't encapsulate who he is, then his most recent sampling this year, with the talent on THIS team that he's likely to be surrounded by moving forward, in a year in which he actually played some on the second line, is a sad-looking 0.23 ppg.

That isn't good enough either? So now we are projecting on his age 24 season when he averaged 0.40 ppg in 36 games ..... why again???

Sounds like you are just cherry picking his best 36 game output. He's never done that before and there's no reason to believe he will again. If you go back to the year before it was just 0.33 ppg. Right back at 27 points per game. (His career average of 0.29 ppg yields 24 points over 82 games).

Even 0.4 ppg yields a measly 32 points per game. You know, the cherry picked one 36 game sample when he was able to sustain that in 5 years.

Blais is not a 0.4 ppg player and he's DEFINITELY not a 35-40 point player.

Umm because it was the last season he played in 15 or more games? hahaha. Because it's way more logical to be looking at his 24 year old season than factoring his 21 year old season into the player he IS at 25? Holy moly. That Buch trade is still eating at you isn't it?
Anyway buddy, I feel we've sufficiently hijacked this Kappo thread with our OPINIONS on players other than Kappo so I guess I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kords]

Far less injuries than a lot of other teams.

I get that

 

[mas0764]

Kakko now has a sample of like 3 years.

Good thing Kakko has a ton of talent. But there's certainly reason to be concerned there.

 

[mas0764]

Umm because it was the last season he played in 15 or more games? hahaha. Because it's way more logical to be looking at his 24 year old season than factoring his 21 year old season into the player he IS at 25? Holy moly. That Buch trade is still eating at you isn't it?
Anyway buddy, I feel we've sufficiently hijacked this Kappo thread with our OPINIONS on players other than Kappo so I guess I'll leave it at that.

Looking back at his career high pace through 5 seasons in the league is not logical. It's way more likely that that 36 game sample is an outlier especially when you consider his struggles playing up on the second line this season with much improved linemate talent.

Like I said it's possible Blais surpasses that number at some point but it's going to be an outlier. He's a sub-30 point player in this league on a regular basis. He's a winning player on the fourth line and merely an average one on the third line (and by average I mean if your whole third line was Sammy Blaises you are profiling as like an 8 seed/missing the playoffs in terms of your team's talent level - obviously this doesn't mean you can't win a Cup with Sammy Blais on your third line but in the macro sense you should be planning on that player being a plus fourth liner for you because you should want plus players in every spot instead of average players in every spot or net negative players in ANY spot).