Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[frozenrubber]

Boy do I hope he progresses this year or we are going to see A LOT of this photo

 

[GENESISPuck94]

There's a reason Hughes was selected 1st overall. Why is this even a discussion? The Rangers didn't have the number one overall pick. And if they drafted Zegras instead of Kakko the same people bitching now would have stormed MSG with pitchforks and rotten fruit.

Kakko is 21 years old, he's not even close to a finished product yet.

Holy moly.

 

[EdJovanovski]

There's a reason Hughes was selected 1st overall. Why is this even a discussion? The Rangers didn't have the number one overall pick. And if they drafted Zegras instead of Kakko the same people bitching now would have stormed MSG with pitchforks and rotten fruit.

Kakko is 21 years old, he's not even close to a finished product yet.

Holy moly.

As soon as we won the lottery most fans on this board said they wanted Kakko over Hughes, Kakko was billed as the NHL ready “dominated against men” guy, on the draft feed on TV it even said “Room for Improvement: None”. Hughes was the scrawny little boy who was supposed to take years to make an impact lol. “The Rangers have the easiest job in the world picking #2, Devils have to make the tough decision” Kakko is a disappointment any way you slice it

 

[mas0764]

As soon as we won the lottery most fans on this board said they wanted Kakko over Hughes, Kakko was billed as the NHL ready “dominated against men” guy, on the draft feed on TV it even said “Room for Improvement: None”. Hughes was the scrawny little boy who was supposed to take years to make an impact lol. “The Rangers have the easiest job in the world picking #2, Devils have to make the tough decision” Kakko is a disappointment any way you slice it

Kakko has been disappointing so far, but let's be real here: The people saying they wanted Kakko over Hughes were simply being uninformed homers who were climbing on board the Kakko train because it was clear he would be a Ranger and that Hughes would play for the hated arch-rival Devils. There was zero consensus literally anywhere that would have placed Kakko over Hughes.

At best - and to be fair, this is what I believed - it was that Hughes was the clear #1, in no small part because he was a natural center, which is valuable itself, and that Kakko was a clear #2, but in a very, very close tier to Hughes, and that everyone else was far behind. And that Hughes and Kakko were both star caliber players.

The Rangers did have an easy choice because no matter who the Devils took, the choice between whoever was remaining, vs the field, was a way easier choice than choosing between Kakko and Hughes. Even though there was also a clear edge favoring Hughes at the time.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

As soon as we won the lottery most fans on this board said they wanted Kakko over Hughes, Kakko was billed as the NHL ready “dominated against men” guy, on the draft feed on TV it even said “Room for Improvement: None”. Hughes was the scrawny little boy who was supposed to take years to make an impact lol. “The Rangers have the easiest job in the world picking #2, Devils have to make the tough decision” Kakko is a disappointment any way you slice it

We have no ide who will be the better player in the end or who will have more Cups, so on. These guys only just became capable of buying alcohol on their own legally. In 5 to 7 years time Kakko may very well be the better all around player. He's already a VERY good defensive forward and one of the Rangers best possession players. He hasn't had any PP1 time, barely any PP time at all period, and he's mostly been buried on the 3rd and 4th lines. He's had injuries. Give him time to develop. It doesn't matter what people "bill" a player as before they even step foot on an NHL sheet. There's an infinite amount of influences that effect a player's development. Give it time.

Not even a jab, but look at Kravtsov. Does the fact he hasn't sealed an NHL spot yet mean he won't and won't be a good player? He's basically 2 years older than Kakko and has less NHL experience. That doesn't mean shit in the end. These guys are so young time is on their side. Even if they don't blow the doors off this year they're still young.and have time.

The fan base is incredibly fickle and impatient.

 

[mas0764]

We have no ide who will be the better player in the end or who will have more Cups, so on. These guys only just became capable of buying alcohol on their own legally. In 5 to 7 years time Kakko may very well be the better all around player. He's already a VERY good defensive forward and one of the Rangers best possession players. He hasn't had any PP1 time, barely any PP time at all period, and he's mostly been buried on the 3rd and 4th lines. He's had injuries. Give him time to develop. It doesn't matter what people "bill" a player as before they even step foot on an NHL sheet. There's an infinite amount of influences that effect a player's development. Give it time.

Not even a jab, but look at Kravtsov. Does the fact he hasn't sealed an NHL spot yet mean he won't and won't be a good player? He's basically years older than Kakko and has less NHL experience. That doesn't mean shit in the end. These guys are so young time is on their side. Even if they don't blow the doors off this year they're still young.and have time.

The fan base is incredibly fickle and impatient.

Sorry, if Kakko isn't a star player this season, he is getting traded for 35 year old Patrick Kane so we can make one more run to the conference finals again, haven't you heard? It's way better to have a 35 year old for one run than a 22 year old for a lot of runs.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Sorry, if Kakko isn't a star player this season, he is getting traded for 35 year old Patrick Kane so we can make one more run to the conference finals again, haven't you heard? It's way better to have a 35 year old for one run than a 22 year old for a lot of runs.

Unfortunately I can see this happening. And then Kakko breaks out and we'll lament the trade.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sorry, if Kakko isn't a star player this season, he is getting traded for 35 year old Patrick Kane so we can make one more run to the conference finals again, haven't you heard? It's way better to have a 35 year old for one run than a 22 year old for a lot of runs.

Like trading Chris Kreider in 2013 for 1 year of Daniel Alfredsson.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kakko has been disappointing so far, but let's be real here: The people saying they wanted Kakko over Hughes were simply being uninformed homers who were climbing on board the Kakko train because it was clear he would be a Ranger and that Hughes would play for the hated arch-rival Devils. There was zero consensus literally anywhere that would have placed Kakko over Hughes.

At best - and to be fair, this is what I believed - it was that Hughes was the clear #1, in no small part because he was a natural center, which is valuable itself, and that Kakko was a clear #2, but in a very, very close tier to Hughes, and that everyone else was far behind. And that Hughes and Kakko were both star caliber players.

The Rangers did have an easy choice because no matter who the Devils took, the choice between whoever was remaining, vs the field, was a way easier choice than choosing between Kakko and Hughes. Even though there was also a clear edge favoring Hughes at the time.

Revisionist history. Rangers fans are inhaling copium and claiming Kakko wasn’t as highly touted as he was, to try to downplay him being a disappointment. He is a massive disappointment and if anyone said he’d have a career high of 23pts already on his second contract people would’ve called them a troll.

Kakko vs Hughes

Simple question fellas. Though it's somewhat debatable, seems very likely Shero no matter how the Worlds end up turning out, he will select Hughes. But and obviously this is hypothetical, had the Rangers and not the Devils had the 1st overall pick coming up this summer, all things being equal...

forums.hfboards.com

Kakko vs Laine

Who do you take now and forevermore?

forums.hfboards.com

Kakko vs. Svechnikov

pretty simple.. 2018 2nd OA or 2019 2nd OA who would you rather have?

forums.hfboards.com

Who gets more points next year, Kakko or Hughes?

I say Kakko.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[LOFIN]

I don't think anyone is arguing he hasn't been a disappointment. But rather than just going "he sux 'cause he sucks", it's more fruitful to look at why he hasn't been successful. And it's fair to say that he hasn't been put into the same position to succeed as Hughes has for an example. Now this is obviously because the Debbies suck ass, but the point still stands.

- Who has to wear the majority of his disappointing NHL start so far? He himself.
- Have the Rangers done the best job at his development and deployment (this could be extended to Chytil, Kravtsov, Lias as well)? No.
- Did the Rangers make the wrong pick? No, Kakko was a clear consensus #2, and we still need a larger sample size to say whether or not say someone like Zegras should've been picked higher. And maybe we should stop worrying about what Hughes does because it was not in the Rangers control. In the end, where one was drafted doesn't really matter after the first few seasons. It's what you do after that.

So rather than dwell in the past, we should be looking at how he is going to be deployed next season. With Kravtsov, there should actually be some legit skilled options to play in the top-6. So naturally GG probably sticks Blais or Goodrow up there...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The Rangers went like 100 years without drafting top 2 so they obviously have no experience or idea what they're doing when it comes to putting these top talents in positions to succeed. We could have taken Zegras, Raymond, Stutzle etc instead and they'd be in the same position. Playing with/like grinders, no PP, benched in close games, demoted for turning the puck over or missing a defensive assignment.

Zegras, Stutzle, J. Hughes turn the puck over like crazy and couldn't even locate the defensive zone. But their teams suck and can accept these downsides for the greater good of developing their confidence and offensive game.

 

[LOFIN]

The Rangers went like 100 years without drafting top 2 so they obviously have no experience or idea what they're doing when it comes to putting these top talents in positions to succeed. We could have taken Zegras, Raymond, Stutzle etc instead and they'd be in the same position. Playing with/like grinders, no PP, benched in close games, demoted for turning the puck over or missing a defensive assignment.

The fact that they got two lottery picks and had one of the best wingers wanting to join the team really coincided poorly. Ideally, should've sucked a year or two more to develop the kids. But, the team had a very succesful year last season so obviously the issues Kakko and Laf had kinda blend in the background. With Shestyorkin on a relatively short term and some of the core guys aging out soon, time to compete is now and you have to hope Laf and Kakko (and Chytil) can break out despite having to figure it out themselves in a not so ideal position.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Looks kinda flabby

 

[mas0764]

Revisionist history.

Posting a few links is more anecdotal than dispositive.

Rangers fans are inhaling copium and claiming Kakko wasn’t as highly touted as he was, to try to downplay him being a disappointment. He is a massive disappointment and if anyone said he’d have a career high of 23pts already on his second contract people would’ve called them a troll.

I would agree he's been a disappointment in comparison to what our expectations were at the time he was drafted, that's not really what I was saying (of course, Lafreniere, Chytil, Andersson and Kravtsov all have been disappointments relative to our expectations at the time of their selection as well, so..... the Rangers need to look themselves in the mirror).

I was merely pointing out that, in fairness, Kakko was not on the same level as Hughes in any expert opinion and when the board polls showed that everyone here said he was better than Hughes, that was what is called homerism and not logic or analysis.

In reality all the experts said Kakko was close but a tier below Hughes, but that the gulf between Kakko and everyone else was massive. So him coming in behind Hughes to date isn't really relevant because no one who knew what they were talking about ever really predicted Kakko to be better than Hughes.

You are going down an irrelevant rabbit hole. Let's leave it at this - yes, Kakko with a career high of 23 points is disappointing.

We can also look at his circumstances and have optimism that it is going to get better. Someone who is predicting 150 points for Kravtsov should be familiar with that concept....

The Rangers went like 100 years without drafting top 2 so they obviously have no experience or idea what they're doing when it comes to putting these top talents in positions to succeed. We could have taken Zegras, Raymond, Stutzle etc instead and they'd be in the same position. Playing with/like grinders, no PP, benched in close games, demoted for turning the puck over or missing a defensive assignment.

Zegras, Stutzle, J. Hughes turn the puck over like crazy and couldn't even locate the defensive zone. But their teams suck and can accept these downsides for the greater good of developing their confidence and offensive game.

Which is what we should have done.

 

[LOFIN]

Which is what we should have done.

Yes but also no. Kakko was abysmal in his own end during his draft year and even in the WHC. He got a pass for his offensive abilities in Liiga and during the WHC other players could cover for him.. He would've had to learn that game eventually. While it has been hurting his offensive development, no doubt, a lot of the posters here don't really understand how significant him becoming a sound 2-way winger has been. There's one thing we can point to that the Rangers and DQ were successful with his development. He transfered from an absolute burden on the ice in his first year to basically a defensive anchor with Panarin and Strome. And I'm not trying to make it like he's the re-incarnation of Jere Lehtinen lol, but still significantly better.

I would expect him to still have and ability to learn his game.

 

[mas0764]

Yes but also no. Kakko was abysmal in his own end during his draft year and even in the WHC. He got a pass for his offensive abilities in Liiga and during the WHC other players could cover for him.. He would've had to learn that game eventually. While it has been hurting his offensive development, no doubt, a lot of the posters here don't really understand how significant him becoming a sound 2-way winger has been. There's one thing we can point to that the Rangers and DQ were successful with his development. He transfered from an absolute burden on the ice in his first year to basically a defensive anchor with Panarin and Strome. And I'm not trying to make it like he's the re-incarnation of Jere Lehtinen lol, but still significantly better.

I would expect him to still have and ability to learn his game.

If the Rangers can develop him into a 70 point forward then they did the right thing. If they can't, then they didn't.

Defensive responsibility is overrated. Panarin isn't, but he scores like gangbusters.

It's usually something that with the offensively gifted guys comes around later, like Zibanejad. You can't have a guy who never develops his offense, though.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's gonna come down to offseasons for Kakko imo. What's he working on? Has he listened to the coaches? Is he putting the time in on his skating and shooting? Is he watching film to see where he should have zig instead of Zagged. He's a bonefide top 6 player if his skating improves imo, he just has a hard time getting to places he needs to be, and he can't beat someone one on one with his lack of speed. I'm only concerned if he isn't putting the work in.

 

[Vitto79]

It's gonna come down to offseasons for Kakko imo. What's he working on? Has he listened to the coaches? Is he putting the time in on his skating and shooting? Is he watching film to see where he should have zig instead of Zagged. He's a bonefide top 6 player if his skating improves imo, he just has a hard time getting to places he needs to be, and he can't beat someone one on one with his lack of speed. I'm only concerned if he isn't putting the work in.

He’s a year away from being a 3rd liner for good
Kravtsov could steal his spot

Kakko is a good player he just may not be what was expected from a 2nd overall

I do think they can win it all W a guy like him though . He does little things that helps the team

 

[molotce]

He’s a year away from being a 3rd liner for good
Kravtsov could steal his spot

Kakko is a good player he just may not be what was expected from a 2nd overall

I do think they can win it all W a guy like him though . He does little things that helps the team

By that logic though Kravtsov is already a year ahead of kakko, meaning he is now a 3rd liner for good. It actually blocks kakko from 3rd line duty and garantees him a top6 spot!

 

[Barnaby]

And there are also clear examples of throwing them to the wolves not working out as well.

Yea, this is such a bizarre argument. The Rangers brought Kakko in as an 18 year old. They put him on the top line and PP1 in the preseason then dropped him down when it was obvious he wasn’t ready. I think the majority of us would admit that he shouldn’t have played in NY as an 18 year old. He wasn’t an NHL player his 1st year.

Since then he’s had opportunities to play with Zibanejad and Panarin but hasn’t stuck because despite the fancy stats they just don’t produce as much with him on the ice.

He’ll get more opportunities. Hopefully he makes the most of them. I just find it odd that this board will relentlessly rip some guys apart like a Trouba for example but find every reason in the book as to why Kakko’s lack of production is everyone’s fault but his own.

 

[Barnaby]

"Got the same chance"... apparently there's no difference between 14 minutes of ice time in the bottom six with no power play time and 19 minutes of ice time in the top six with top unit power play time.

Who are we kidding? If Hughes played in NY he’d be on PP1 and would be stapled to Panarin or Kreider. Hughes isn’t succeeding because he gets more ice time. Hughes is succeeding and thus getting more ice time because it’s as clear as day that he’s a star in the making if not a star already. The only thing Kakko and Hughes have in common is they were drafted next to each other in the same draft. Your on ice play should dictate your ice time. Not your draft status. I wonder if people would be such Kakko apologists if he were a 3rd round pick or acquired via trade. There’s a reason why Kakko haggled over a bridge deal and Hughes already got paid.

 

[Barnaby]

Sorry, if Kakko isn't a star player this season, he is getting traded for 35 year old Patrick Kane so we can make one more run to the conference finals again, haven't you heard? It's way better to have a 35 year old for one run than a 22 year old for a lot of runs.

I

The Rangers went like 100 years without drafting top 2 so they obviously have no experience or idea what they're doing when it comes to putting these top talents in positions to succeed. We could have taken Zegras, Raymond, Stutzle etc instead and they'd be in the same position. Playing with/like grinders, no PP, benched in close games, demoted for turning the puck over or missing a defensive assignment.

Zegras, Stutzle, J. Hughes turn the puck over like crazy and couldn't even locate the defensive zone. But their teams suck and can accept these downsides for the greater good of developing their confidence and offensive game.

Those guys may have warts to their games, but they also flash. You can see the skill and the natural ability. You don’t see that with Kakko. He has a ways to go. I don’t buy that they’d all be underwhelming because Kakko isn’t being gifted PP1 time. I also don’t see why people are criticizing the 1 part of Kakkos game that’s above average: his defensive play.

I don’t buy that it was Quinn’s fault, then it’s Gallants fault, then Panarin/Strome’s fault etc...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I

Those guys may have warts to their games, but they also flash. You can see the skill and the natural ability. You don’t see that with Kakko. He has a ways to go. I don’t buy that they’d all be underwhelming because Kakko isn’t being gifted PP1 time. I also don’t see why people are criticizing the 1 part of Kakkos game that’s above average: his defensive play.

I don’t buy that it was Quinn’s fault, then it’s Gallants fault, then Panarin/Strome’s fault etc...

the only difference between Quinn and Gallant is that the players respect Gallant more.

 

[RangersFan1994]

we just have to accept that Kakko is just a player that is better suited for the bigger ice. I wont be shocked if he is back in Finland in 5 years

 

[LOFIN]

we just have to accept that Kakko is just a player that is better suited for the bigger ice. I wont be shocked if he is back in Finland in 5 years

Lol what a shit take, you are talking like he isn't an NHL player at the moment. Even if he never puts up more than 30 points per season for the rest of his career, he would still be in the league because he's that good at cycling and decent defensively.