Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[bhamill]

You’ve made excuses for why his development has not met expectations. That’s why I find it funny that you want to defend the guy but in each case you also throw out excuses. Defend the player based on his skills not “circumstances.” Every player in the NHL went through the same circumstances.

I never said he won’t develop more. I said “his current skill set translates best to a third line player.”

The Rangers have spoken and given him the classic bridge deal. This is now his make or break moment— if his season is terrible he will be gone.

What excuses? I’ve said I’d have liked to have seen more. I’ve said I EXPECT to see more and given reasons why I feel it’s reasonable to expect that. I clearly stated he’s already a third line level player but I expect development. If you also expect development, with him CURRENTLY translating best as a third liner, then I truly don’t get what the f*** you are disputing with me. Hahahaha.
Its all good dude, I’m not trying to change your mind, just saying why you aren’t changing mine.

 

[JHS]

What excuses? I’ve said I’d have liked to have seen more. I’ve said I EXPECT to see more and given reasons why I feel it’s reasonable to expect that. I clearly stated he’s already a third line level player but I expect development. If you also expect development, with him CURRENTLY translating best as a third liner, then I truly don’t get what the f*** you are disputing with me. Hahahaha.
Its all good dude, I’m not trying to change your mind, just saying why you aren’t changing mine.

You said he was in a foreign country playing under unusual situations. Both true but if you need to defend a second overall pick with these types of excuses you are doing that hoping that it covers up the “he’s too slow, he’s too unskilled” justifications for why his development has been pretty slow. That’s why I gave you a hard time- I just can’t stand when people make excuses for these guys. I guarantee( or hope at least) that if you sat Kaapo down he would not use these excuses for why he has not solidified a top 6 spot like Laf has.

His skill set is suitable for a 3rd line guy and that’s cool, but it’s a reach to see how he improves substantially enough in speed and quickness to be a consistent top 6 guy.

Glad he’s getting a chance to step up his game this season. It needs to happen if this team is going to repeat its run from last year!

 

[bhamill]

You said he was in a foreign country playing under unusual situations. Both true but if you need to defend a second overall pick with these types of excuses you are doing that hoping that it covers up the “he’s too slow, he’s too unskilled” justifications for why his development has been pretty slow. That’s why I gave you a hard time- I just can’t stand when people make excuses for these guys. I guarantee( or hope at least) that if you sat Kaapo down he would not use these excuses for why he has not solidified a top 6 spot like Laf has.

His skill set is suitable for a 3rd line guy and that’s cool, but it’s a reach to see how he improves substantially enough in speed and quickness to be a consistent top 6 guy.

Glad he’s getting a chance to step up his game this season. It needs to happen if this team is going to repeat its run from last year!

Yes. I stated some facts. I stated them as mitigating factors that give me reason to believe that there is likely more there than we’ve seen from him in his almost 2 full seasons of NHL games in three years as a teenager through 21 year old.
That is reasonable. That is not excuse making, or even a defense. I said I wanted to see more. I just understand there are factors that played a part in restricting his development. You can disagree with the impact they had, you can think he tops out as a third liner, just as he is now. That’s subjective. But you can’t just dismiss other subjective views as “being defensive” just because they dont line up with yours. Factual conditions that impact development are not ”excuses” just because they support something you disagree with.
If we knew each other in real life I’d friendly wager you a beer that he turns out a very good top six winger, and valuable player to a winning team, in this league before he is 24, but we don’t so we will just have to disagree and let it play out.
Feel free to bust my balls if I turn out wrong. I don’t have issues admitting those kinds of things. Probably all the practice. haha.

 

[excaliber]

Kaako will never be the player most of you hope he'll be. He's just not that talented. As the #2 pick in the draft he's been nothing but dissapointing. His new 2 year contract tells it all.

He's being paid like a bottom 6 forward which he is. If he was as good as most of you think he is he'd be in the top 6 and his play would keep him there.

 

[duhmetreE]

My comps are still somewhere in between Stone and Nichuskin.

If he’s not producing by the end of this bridge deal, we have a problem.

 

[mas0764]

My comps are still somewhere in between Stone and Nichuskin.

If he’s not producing by the end of this bridge deal, we have a problem.

Well he's already pretty much at, or past, age 18-25 Nichuskin.

If he's 0.84 ppg and Selke candidate 26 year old Nichuskin from this past season, that is not a terrible outcome, but I'd like that every year, not just one year.

Stone would be just lovely.

 

[JHS]

Yes. I stated some facts. I stated them as mitigating factors that give me reason to believe that there is likely more there than we’ve seen from him in his almost 2 full seasons of NHL games in three years as a teenager through 21 year old.
That is reasonable. That is not excuse making, or even a defense. I said I wanted to see more. I just understand there are factors that played a part in restricting his development. You can disagree with the impact they had, you can think he tops out as a third liner, just as he is now. That’s subjective. But you can’t just dismiss other subjective views as “being defensive” just because they dont line up with yours. Factual conditions that impact development are not ”excuses” just because they support something you disagree with.
If we knew each other in real life I’d friendly wager you a beer that he turns out a very good top six winger, and valuable player to a winning team, in this league before he is 24, but we don’t so we will just have to disagree and let it play out.
Feel free to bust my balls if I turn out wrong. I don’t have issues admitting those kinds of things. Probably all the practice. haha.

I also have some experience being wrong with players! Hahahaha—

You are totally correct that we can’t know how he will develop. My huge concern is he’s just slow footed and seems to have skills that will translate better to a role in which he’s not asked to play make like he will if he plays with top 6 forwards.

The reason I don’t like excuses is those same excuses could be made for every rookie out there so if that’s true, I don’t see them as excuses I seem them as realities. In the reality of the world in the past 3 years Kap has struggled to distinguish himself in a positive way for most of his career so far.

 

[will1066]

Phone battery at 24%. It's a sign.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Phone battery at 24%. It's a sign.

A sign that Kakko will break Gretzky's single season points record in 2022-2023

 

[Circus86]

Kakko at the party? Rantanen is drunk.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Kakko with Strome and Panarin.

It had a few moments but felt like he was trying to defer to the married couple too often. There was always a feeling of you do you guys and I’ll see if I can fit in with you. For good reason, since that connection was well established.

He did provide some much needed defensive awareness on that line but didn’t benefit as much as you’d think offensively from being next to those two.

Trocheck. Different player completely than Strome. It was obvious Drury was unhappy about how Strome and Panarin performed in the playoffs. You are stuck with Panarin but if Gallant decides to go Bread-Tro-Kakko, this could be the type of line that compliments Kakkos game a little more.

Trocheck is much faster than Strome, gets to the dirty areas of the ice and forechecks well to open up some more ice and lanes for his wingers. He’s also light years better defensively and will help in the transition game.

Kakko should work on his acceleration, skating and shot as there will likely be some more turnovers going the other way. He could find himself in more odd man rushes and also up high in slot with more quality scoring chances. He can’t live on the walls with the puck the entire time. He needs to get into the middle of the ice with and without the puck.

Would also be nice if a veteran took Kakko under his wing. Maybe Trocheck is that guy. Maybe it’s asking too much. Those things kind of happen naturally. Kakko did have a nice relationship with Brendan Smith so it doesn’t necessarily need to be a fellow Fin. Especially at this point where he has been in the league/country a few years

 

[chosen]

....You are stuck with Panarin...

I wish the team was stuck with more Panarins.

The amount of grief he gets from some fans even though he is by far their best scorer and even-strength player is comical.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I wish the team was stuck with more Panarins.

The amount of grief he gets from some fans even though he is by far their best scorer and even-strength player is comical.

This horrible season of his he got the 3rd most assists in franchise history of this original six team. It’s insane how underrated he is by this fanbase.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kaako will never be the player most of you hope he'll be. He's just not that talented. As the #2 pick in the draft he's been nothing but dissapointing. His new 2 year contract tells it all.

He's being paid like a bottom 6 forward which he is. If he was as good as most of you think he is he'd be in the top 6 and his play would keep him there.

Not necessarily. Vatrano was never a top line player in his career and Gallant stuck him on line 1 and never moved him off of it. Lots of coaches (and all Rangers coaches, especially) hate young players and Kakko seems to be hated the most lol. People saying “we’ll if he played like a top 6player he’d okay there” are not in touch with reality of how coaches make their decisions and how successful teams develop their high end youth.

 

[LionsHeart]

I could read through a Kakko argument and agree with everyone.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Not necessarily. Vatrano was never a top line player in his career and Gallant stuck him on line 1 and never moved him off of it. Lots of coaches (and all Rangers coaches, especially) hate young players and Kakko seems to be hated the most lol. People saying “we’ll if he played like a top 6player he’d okay there” are not in touch with reality of how coaches make their decisions and how successful teams develop their high end youth.

The reason Vatrano got that spot over Kakko is speed, one has it the other doesnt yet. Kakko needs to be faster, it's fairly obvious. Hopefully he's working on that. Lindgren and Boyle are examples of guys who turned their career around in one summer by getting the fundamentals of skating taught to them.

 

[chosen]

Not necessarily. Vatrano was never a top line player in his career and Gallant stuck him on line 1 and never moved him off of it. Lots of coaches (and all Rangers coaches, especially) hate young players and Kakko seems to be hated the most lol. People saying “we’ll if he played like a top 6player he’d okay there” are not in touch with reality of how coaches make their decisions and how successful teams develop their high end youth.

This narrative that coaches are holding back young talent is absolute nonsense.

If you deserve ice time, you get it. The simple reason for this is that coaches don't want to get fired. They want their best players on the ice.

Fox and Miller have been getting ice time since they got here because the coaches thought they deserved it.

Kakko is not hated. When you're supposed to be an offensive player and you can go 15 games without a goal on a regular basis, you're not going to get 20 minutes a game.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This narrative that coaches are holding back young talent is absolute nonsense.

If you deserve ice time, you get it. The simple reason for this is that coaches don't want to get fired. They want their best players on the ice.

This is all fine and dandy but can anyone tell me what Dryden Hunt and Sammy Blais did to earn top-6 minutes over Alexis Lafrenière for the majority of last season?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This narrative that coaches are holding back young talent is absolute nonsense.

If you deserve ice time, you get it. The simple reason for this is that coaches don't want to get fired. They want their best players on the ice.

Fox and Miller have been getting ice time since they got here because the coaches thought they deserved it.

Kakko is not hated. When you're supposed to be an offensive player and you can go 15 games without a goal on a regular basis, you're not going to get 20 minutes a game.

Nah. This is all nonsense.

Fox was elite the moment he stepped onto NHL ice so you can't compare to him. And with Miller, we were so desperate for LHD that he was allowed to play thru his mistakes and growing pains (and there were a lot of them) without any impact on his ice time. He's turning out great... wonder how Kakko and Laf would look if they were afforded the same privilege? J. Hughes was a joke his first year, better in his 2nd but still not very productive, but they kept giving him opportunities and look what happened.

Oh and when it comes to coaches and deserving ice time, the Kid line was our best line in the playoffs at even strength yet Gallant just stopped playing them once things got tough against Tampa and leaned even heavier on his ineffective veterans. Their ice time decreased more and more and then he scratched Kakko for useless ass Dryden Hunt in game 6. So don't give me that.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Wheeler just redrafted Kakko 10th and had us picking Zegras at 2. But at the time, Kakko was far and away the no-brainer choice at 2, and was debated to go 1st.

Wheeler: Who goes first in a 2019 NHL Draft redo? How do their pre-draft rankings hold up?

At this point, the 2019 draft class's best haven't quite distinguished themselves like the top players in most classes.

theathletic.com

10. Vancouver Canucks: LW/RW Kaapo Kakko
Actual draft pick: No. 2 (change: -8) to the Rangers
My final ranking: No. 2 (change: -8)

Kakko was the toughest player on this list to rank because there may not be another player on this list whose 2022-23 campaign could make or break quite like him. He needs to stay healthy, he needs to find his niche on the second power play, and he needs to grab the one top-six job in Manhattan that appears open after Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad, Alexis Lafreniere, Artemi Panarin and Vincent Trochek take their likely spots inside it. If one of those things doesn’t happen for him, his trajectory feels more fragile than the ones that the next two players in this exercise appear to be on with their own clubs. I’d listen to arguments for him 12th here, but I’m not quite ready to write him off. I also thought about him ahead of Newhook.

 

[SA16]

This is all fine and dandy but can anyone tell me what Dryden Hunt and Sammy Blais did to earn top-6 minutes over Alexis Lafrenière for the majority of last season?

Sammy Blais played 14 games so he did not do anything on the ice for the majority of last season.

 

[Bob Richards]

I could read through a Kakko argument and agree with everyone.

Lmfao this is exactly how I feel.

I alternate between thinking he’s an unfortunate, bust pick and thinking he has the minerals to be a good top 6 player.

 

[chosen]

This is all fine and dandy but can anyone tell me what Dryden Hunt and Sammy Blais did to earn top-6 minutes over Alexis Lafrenière for the majority of last season?

Sammy Blais was out for the vast majority of the season, so I'm not even sure why you brought him up as an example of anything.

Lafreniere was up and down the lineup all season. So was Hunt. Lafreniere did have more minutes per game than Hunt.

Do you believe Lafreniere wouldn't have gotten more minutes if Gallant believed he deserved it?

Do you believe any coach would skate what they believed to be inferior players when that would be cutting their own throats?

You can disagree with the way coaches use some players, but the notion that it is solely based on age makes zero sense. Gallant was incredibly comfortable giving Miller top minutes. If he had a bias against young players, he wouldn't have done that.

 

[chosen]

Nah. This is all nonsense.

Fox was elite the moment he stepped onto NHL ice so you can't compare to him. And with Miller, we were so desperate for LHD that he was allowed to play thru his mistakes and growing pains (and there were a lot of them) without any impact on his ice time. He's turning out great... wonder how Kakko and Laf would look if they were afforded the same privilege? J. Hughes was a joke his first year, better in his 2nd but still not very productive, but they kept giving him opportunities and look what happened.

Oh and when it comes to coaches and deserving ice time, the Kid line was our best line in the playoffs at even strength yet Gallant just stopped playing them once things got tough against Tampa and leaned even heavier on his ineffective veterans. Their ice time decreased more and more and then he scratched Kakko for useless ass Dryden Hunt in game 6. So don't give me that.

Fox was elite.....

If Lafreniere was elite, he would have gotten top minutes, too. He wasn't close to elite.

Your contention is that Gallant is an idiot for the way he utilized his players. Some fans believe coaches are idiots and that they know better. It's always been that way and it always will be.

For every fan that thinks Coach A is great, there's another fan that believes Coach A is an absolute moron.

In the end, it's always about personnel.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sammy Blais was out for the vast majority of the season, so I'm not even sure why you brought him up as an example of anything.

Lafreniere was up and down the lineup all season. So was Hunt. Lafreniere did have more minutes per game than Hunt.

Do you believe Lafreniere wouldn't have gotten more minutes if Gallant believed he deserved it?

Do you believe any coach would skate what they believed to be inferior players when that would be cutting their own throats?

You can disagree with the way coaches use some players, but the notion that it is solely based on age makes zero sense. Gallant was incredibly comfortable giving Miller top minutes. If he had a bias against young players, he wouldn't have done that.

What did Blais and Hunt do to "deserve it"?