Waived: Justin Holl

[jkutswings]

I guess that's where the disconnect lies. People want half our defense waived yet they should be performing much better as a unit. Make it make sense.

Fair point. To clarify a couple things, at least in my opinion:

1) I'm underwhelmed by a few of Detroit's defensemen. But I personally am not advocating to waive half the defense. (Understood that thoughts on this vary significantly.)

2) I should say that TEAM defense should be better with existing personnel. I think the forwards get too much of a free pass, especially with Yzerman not keeping guys like Sprong and Fabbri. I like the potential of our prospects to eventually improve this area, but current forwards should help out the defense a bit more, and some of that can also come down to coaching strategy.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think there's room for a middle ground. The defense should not be quite this bad with existing personnel, whether that means an update to the system they play and/or an update to the assignments/combinations.

Nobody can play a perfect game, but I expect more from both the players and the coaches. And to @Oddbob 's point, I still see a great deal of, "let the players sort it out themselves" from Lalonde, and I think he needs to adjust to be more hands on.

That's kind of where I'm at. In the recent postgame presser from NYR there were some comments from the team about some players not putting in the work defensively. I still don't think Patrick Kane is the right fit for this team short or long term and he's a player that definitely falls into that category of not really caring about defense.

 

[jaster]

That's kind of where I'm at. In the recent postgame presser from NYR there were some comments from the team about some players not putting in the work defensively. I still don't think Patrick Kane is the right fit for this team short or long term and he's a player that definitely falls into that category of not really caring about defense.

Patrick Kane cared about defense a couple times, dude; when he was accused of sexual assault, and when he stood up for a guy who turned a blind eye to rape, and enabled future rapes.

Too soon?

Go Wings!

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think the forwards get too much of a free pass, especially with Yzerman not keeping guys like Sprong and Fabbri. I like the potential of our prospects to eventually improve this area, but current forwards should help out the defense a bit more, and some of that can also come down to coaching strategy.

Tbh that probably looks like last night though. We don't have enough good 200ft players to play really strong defense AND be able to generate offense. Most likely we either do what we did last year and score a lot and allow a lot, or we try to win games like the 3 Ws we have this season.

 

[Oddbob]

So what are you asking for? Better starts.. then what? You view 3rd period comebacks as a bad thing, but I assume that doesn't mean you want the team to be on the other side of those?

Almost by definition the ask is for perfection. Which is a fantasy with most rosters, especially one like ours.

Nice hyperbole. How about somewhere in between. Again, you keep saying perfection, I never said anything close to that. You act like we are doing really well under Lalonde. What I see is a team with no real system and are constantly outshot and outplayed, no matter what teams we face.

That's kind of where I'm at. In the recent postgame presser from NYR there were some comments from the team about some players not putting in the work defensively. I still don't think Patrick Kane is the right fit for this team short or long term and he's a player that definitely falls into that category of not really caring about defense.

I feel Tank was a weird choice as well for Lalonde's brand of hockey, which I am becoming less and less a fan of.

 

[Snuggs]

That's kind of where I'm at. In the recent postgame presser from NYR there were some comments from the team about some players not putting in the work defensively. I still don't think Patrick Kane is the right fit for this team short or long term and he's a player that definitely falls into that category of not really caring about defense.

Yeah, but you've been posting stuff like this since before he was signed so... how legit is it?

Idk if I'd consider it true or just self-validating your own thoughts and personal beliefs.

I mean Red Wings just won a game because of the guy... But he's no good for the team.

Maybe coach was talking about Berggren, who, sucks or even Gustavsson.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Nice hyperbole. How about somewhere in between. Again, you keep saying perfection, I never said anything close to that. You act like we are doing really well under Lalonde. What I see is a team with no real system and are constantly outshot and outplayed, no matter what teams we face.

I'd say overall we're doing really well.

We won the shots against the Pens and Rangers. Didn't that matter?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, but you've been posting stuff like this since before he was signed so... how legit is it?

Idk if I'd consider it true or just self-validating your own thoughts and personal beliefs.

I mean Red Wings just won a game because of the guy... But he's no good for the team.

Maybe coach was talking about Berggren, who, sucks or even Gustavsson.

That may have been the worst win from Detroit I've seen in recent memory. 11 shots for and winning 1-0 because a goalie stood on his head.

Kane is an aging offense-only forward that has always been bad defensively and is getting worse as he ages. Also, the team's record coincidentally started to drop rapidly after he signed with the team. This may or may not be causation/correlation. What is for certain is the team's defensive stats took a gigantic shit after he joined the team, and the team's secondary scoring decreased with him taking more of the prime minutes.

 

[Snuggs]

That may have been the worst win from Detroit I've seen in recent memory. 11 shots for and winning 1-0 because a goalie stood on his head.

Kane is an aging offense-only forward that has always been bad defensively and is getting worse as he ages. Also, the team's record coincidentally started to drop rapidly after he signed with the team. This may or may not be causation/correlation. What is for certain is the team's defensive stats took a gigantic shit after he joined the team, and the team's secondary scoring decreased with him taking more of the prime minutes.

You aren't "wrong" but I think that's a microscrope view, only because, when he joined the team Red Wings went through a huge losing streak bumping them out of the playoffs which, idk if it is all on him. Joe Veleno/Andrew Copp not scoring the second half basically last year isn't the fault of Kane, imo.

But, your point, is valid, to an extent. It's definitely a true statement, I just think more context was/is needed to pull out the full truth. Idk if it's as black and white as you're painting the picture.

I'd focus on the middle pair defense vs our forwards defensive efforts. You, me, another handful of posters on here wanted Roy bad, and quality top four defense is/are proving to be a huge hole this team.

 

[Oddbob]

I'd say overall we're doing really well.

We won the shots against the Pens and Rangers. Didn't that matter?

We have been outplayed in all 6 games this season. Only reason we are 3-3 is the goalies stood on their head in the 3 wins. Based on effort/gameplay and regular goaltending, we are 0-6. No way you can play the way we have so far and maintain 3-3 type record.

 

[Ulysses31]

Patrick Kane cared about defense a couple times, dude; when he was accused of sexual assault, and when he stood up for a guy who turned a blind eye to rape, and enabled future rapes.

Too soon?

Go Wings!

what exactly happened in chicago? dont have patience to sieve through the euphemism/ fluff etc.