zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
This was always BS imo.
Justin Holl
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
This was always BS imo.
CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
- 49,735
- 59,495
In reality, Holl's role increased to #2 defenseman and his underlying numbers were all great after Muzzin went down against Columbus. I'm not sure why that myth is so pervasive
He had 1 rough game where he stood out poorly on couple of plays.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
I actually missed the final game but I imagine he had a couple glaring giveaways that stuck in people's minds.
CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
- 49,735
- 59,495
probably. He was our top puck carrying defenseman that series, so he had the puck a lot. Plus there are just a lot of people who badly wanted it to be true that he was actually garbage being carried by Muzzin
He was really good last year too but so was our D in general.
It's kind of funny seeing the herd mentality all over the media lately that the Leafs are pretty good at D.
I can pinpoint the exact time they all of a sudden got good on D. It doesn't really have much to do with personell either. The numbers don't lie.
It was the instant Keefe was hired as head coach.
I'll give them some slack as goalkeeping was pretty rough so it was hard to tell but it was like a switch was flipped and a of a sudden, underlying D numbers were all of a sudden sustained above average for the first time in years, even through the crazy injuries.
It's kind of funny seeing the herd mentality all over the media lately that the Leafs are pretty good at D.
I can pinpoint the exact time they all of a sudden got good on D. It doesn't really have much to do with personell either. The numbers don't lie.
It was the instant Keefe was hired as head coach.
I'll give them some slack as goalkeeping was pretty rough so it was hard to tell but it was like a switch was flipped and a of a sudden, underlying D numbers were all of a sudden sustained above average for the first time in years, even through the crazy injuries.
So were Gardiner's. Frequent unforced turnovers at the wrong time are detremental in a way that can't really be quantified by advanced stats (see Montreal at 4v4 last night). It changes the momentum and puts our team on edge which is only amplified in a high pressure situation like playoff hockey.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Yep.
Pairing a 2nd or so with either Engvall or Kerfoot for Seattle to take seems more and more likely scenario to happen
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Hes now emerged as the nest bang for your buck contract on the team.
A big win for Dubas in terms of 1) talent evaluation (and recruitment) and 2) contract negotiations.
Certainly makes the preseason debates where folks were calling him overpaid and or not close to being s ropnfpur guy look pretty silly
A big win for Dubas in terms of 1) talent evaluation (and recruitment) and 2) contract negotiations.
Certainly makes the preseason debates where folks were calling him overpaid and or not close to being s ropnfpur guy look pretty silly
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
- 27,260
- 34,233
Gardiner was never as good defensively as Holl has been. Not sure why some people praise a player with a certain aspect, and then someone says well this polarizing player was also good at this. Strange.
Also Holl has outplayed Muzzin this season.
nah man I'm not denying his defensive ability just that he has seemed lost and scrambly with the puck when Muzz has been absent (and consistantly early in his nhl career).
I'm a huge fan of what Holl has doing right now, I just understand where others were coming from saying that they didn't have much confidence in him previously.
Also I'd still take Muzz over him. His impact is understated compared to Holl so I get where you're coming from.
Dreakmur
Registered User
The biggest difference this year is he stopped trying to do too much. He’s making simple plays and he’s making them quickly.
He gets himself in trouble when he thinks too much. He was always good positionally, but he just caused himself to much trouble turning pucks over. Hopefully, he keeps playing simple hockey.
Damisoph
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2010
- 8,994
- 2,333
the shutdown D, the flow, the sound bite...this guy is made for this market.
1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
- 12,924
- 19,613
I'm honestly starting to think that Justin Holl is Kyle Dubas' best move to date. He scouted and signed him when he was running the Marlies, watched his development with the Marlies and then gave him a chance with the big club. And on top of that, got him signed to a contract through his peak years for pennies compared what a good top 3-4D makes. Full marks to Kyle as he can truly claim this as his move.
I don't think Holl is super skilled, or has the head for great offensive plays all the time, but that slapper... haha it was fun to watch. Seriously the guy has good gap control. Defensively he reads the play really well. I think hes caught up to the NHL game and its so great to see a guy who has worked so hard to be in the top four. freaking awesome. I hope he keeps it up. Diamond in the rough if he continues this. It changes the dynamic of the Leaf D and gives options. He has looked good against the best player in the world (McDavid.. debatable sure), if he does it all season that'll say a lot more... but so far so good.
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Yeah, it's the ultimate example of being a good GM.
He was there every step of the way including signing him to a brilliant contract.
The Examiner
Registered User
- Jun 24, 2013
- 6,525
- 1,940
I disagree.
Holl’s decision making has always been one of his strengths. It was the execution that was lacking, IMO.
Now that he’s playing with confidence, his execution has been pretty great.
Also, Muzzin has struggled at times this season and I would say Holl is carrying him rather than Muzzin carrying Holl.
The Examiner
Registered User
- Jun 24, 2013
- 6,525
- 1,940
His skill has surprised me this year. Some of the plays he’s made has had me double taking. He’s playing with a ton of confidence.
Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
- 2,909
- 4,700
Today everyone loves Holl.
As soon as he has his next crappy game, everyone will be out for his head and wanting to trade him.
Never change Leafs HF, never change....lol
As soon as he has his next crappy game, everyone will be out for his head and wanting to trade him.
Never change Leafs HF, never change....lol
The Examiner
Registered User
- Jun 24, 2013
- 6,525
- 1,940
I’ve always liked Holl since his Marlie days.
In fact, years ago when they were deciding whether or not to give him a contract, I was laughed at by many on here for even suggesting they give him an AHL contract, saying it was a waste of a contract.
So no not everyone. In fact, it’s usually a vocal minority who act the way you’re saying “everybody” acts.
If Holl shits the bed against the Habs on Saturday, I would bet that most people wouldn’t say “trade him” or whatever else you’re imagining. Sure, there’s always the handful of weirdos. If he did start to play terribly for a long stretch, then I don’t think it would be unreasonable for people to be down on him.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
It's incredible that Holl can have a game like that and never be forgiven in some minds (I still see people saying to expose him), however someone like Mo will have an entire 80 game sample of games with those blunders and he's an untouchable cornerstone for many.
It feels like people have this underlying expectation that it's all a mirage with Holl, and that Rielly's struggles are temporary, and these judgements cause people to pounce whenever they are confirmed.
leafsfan2point0
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2011
- 2,083
- 2,531
