Justin Holl

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I would do a lot to keep Dermott including trading their late first and second round pick to Seattle. This kid is going to be really good and he fits.

Maybe there's a scenario where Toronto prefers Seattle to select Kerfoot instead of Dermott (primarily for cap reasons - Toronto would have to identify a replacement 3C)? I'm not sure I'd like Toronto to part with a first (probably even a late one) in order to make that happen though.
 
And to think, many people this past offseason thought he was overpaid. :laugh:

This guy is amazing. Love the hair too.
 
Maybe there's a scenario where Toronto prefers Seattle to select Kerfoot instead of Dermott (primarily for cap reasons - Toronto would have to identify a replacement 3C)? I'm not sure I'd like Toronto to part with a first (probably even a late one) in order to make that happen though.
Nothing to worry about there is virtually nothing in 2021 draft worth keeping picks for ... it is worst draft ever ... and Kraken likely will take players over picks from what I hear ... but to keep our defense we might have to give up a 1st and a winger like Mik (no big deal) and in turn get Kraken to take Kerfoot
 
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Holl is just so calm and effective in the defensive zone. He casually rides guys into the boards and strips the puck, passing it to Muzzin like it's a cup of coffee. He sees two forecheckers and passes it to Muzzin or a winger with the urgency of putting on his shoes. He swats the puck off a winger's stick on the rush as if to say, "get that weak shit out of my zone". I just love the way that he plays defense, it's so smooth and steady. I think what's really impressed me the most this year is how calm and smooth he is on the breakout. He makes the smart, simple 30 foot pass 9/10 times and the 10th time he'll use his speed and reach to skate it out of the zone. It's not flashy, it's just monumentally effective.

Really great to see him hammer a goal last night. He hasn't shown a ton of offensive flair, but he's got good tools for it. If he takes a step forward in the offensive game he's going to force the entire league to take notice. It's hard not to get excited about our defense with Holl playing so well, and it's so big for the team to have the calming influence of the Muzzin-Holl pairing.
 
I like Dermott. Losing him is a mistake. And I think it's clear Dubas likes him a lot.
People are way too in a rush to move out good young talent
You don't, and Leafs won't, lose Dermy ... it is 5-7 years to develop another defender which will be beyond our window ... right now we got 2 guys who skate great in Rielly and Dermy ... 2 guys who are beast playing defensive defenders in Muzzy and Bogo ... and 2 guys in Brodie and Holl who are make it at work ... with Holl developing at an unbelievable rate beyond any expectation (but that's why you don't unload defense)
 
You don't, and Leafs won't, lose Dermy ... it is 5-7 years to develop another defender which will be beyond our window ... right now we got 2 guys who skate great in Rielly and Dermy ... 2 guys who are beast playing defensive defenders in Muzzy and Bogo ... and 2 guys in Brodie and Holl who are make it at work ... with Holl developing at an unbelievable rate beyond any expectation (but that's why you don't unload defense)
Very true. Although with Holl he is late 20's and really could have done this prior.
 
Did people see that Weber like rocket from Holl last night. The guy is really developing into a solid dman. He also made a great play last night on a Montreal forward trying to trying to beat him on the outside over the blueline only for Holl to ride him deep into the corner with a crunching check.

This guy is really doing well and one of the pleasant surprises so far this season.
 
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Maybe there's a scenario where Toronto prefers Seattle to select Kerfoot instead of Dermott (primarily for cap reasons - Toronto would have to identify a replacement 3C)? I'm not sure I'd like Toronto to part with a first (probably even a late one) in order to make that happen though.
Dermott was # 5 in the second round of a fantastic draft year. There is less that a 50% chance that a late first round draft pick even plays 200 games. Dermott is a bonafide 3rd pairing Dman with lots of upside. At his age and rfa control, he is most certainly worth it.
 
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Very true. Although with Holl he is late 20's and really could have done this prior.
But this is on org not Holl ... for 2 years he went backwards under Babs ... and he is now finding a role and getting more comfortable ... also he has been perfectly developed under Muzzy past 2 years ... you can't underestimate playing with a vet like Muzzy can do for a guy ... it will be exact same thing with Bogo developing Dermy ... watch and see ... this 1st time in 30 years since 92 where I see people thinking about D development and competition ... if Rielly was a better defender then he could develop a 3rd guy but bottom line he needs support and Brodie is proving it (in fact he is playing way better than I thought he could ... his stick checking is amazing really really top flight) ... it sucks for Sandin truly it does but this is what happens on Cup contending teams
 
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Don't make a trade to protect players from expansion! Look at the teams that did that with Vegas, didn't work out well for them.

Florida traded Reilly Smith so Vegas would take Marchessault
Winnipeg gave up the pick for Nick Suzuki to take Chris Thorburn (protecting Tobi Enstrom)
Ducks traded them Shea Theodore to take Calyton Stoner (protecting Sami Vatanen)
 
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Don't make a trade to protect players from expansion! Look at the teams that did that with Vegas, didn't work out well for them.

Florida traded Reilly Smith so Vegas would take Marchessault
Winnipeg gave up the pick for Nick Suzuki to take Chris Thorburn (protecting Tobi Enstrom)
Ducks traded them Shea Theodore to take Calyton Stoner (protecting Sami Vatanen)
Yeah, that's why Vegas had such great success. Seattle won't get that luxury this time. It's odd an expansion draft set Florida back so much.
 
Don't make a trade to protect players from expansion! Look at the teams that did that with Vegas, didn't work out well for them.

Florida traded Reilly Smith so Vegas would take Marchessault
Winnipeg gave up the pick for Nick Suzuki to take Chris Thorburn (protecting Tobi Enstrom)
Ducks traded them Shea Theodore to take Calyton Stoner (protecting Sami Vatanen)
You mentioned 3 bad ones yes but there were also 6 good ones too and 1 so so deal ... 10 deals out of 30 teams ... some GMs were smart and some made bad deals ... but what will be terrible is if we lose a top 4 dman for nothing ... that is TERRIBLE and we can't afford it ... we are NOT deep on defense ... we are better than before but we have a long ways still to go ... playoff hockey is won with defense and tending and Dubie is only really starting to get it now as a rook
 
Dermott was # 5 in the second round of a fantastic draft year. There is less that a 50% chance that a late first round draft pick even plays 200 games. Dermott is a bonafide 3rd pairing Dman with lots of upside. At his age and rfa control, he is most certainly worth it.

That's fair. I guess I'm just uneasy then about the idea of giving up a 1st round pick in this type of scenario.
 
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Oh I also forgot the worst one:

Columbus traded a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder so Vegas would take William Karlsson
Just awful. NHL GMs really handed Vegas success.
Seattle will have a great advantage having cap room, but teams won't repeat those mistakes.
 
Don't make a trade to protect players from expansion! Look at the teams that did that with Vegas, didn't work out well for them.

Florida traded Reilly Smith so Vegas would take Marchessault
Winnipeg gave up the pick for Nick Suzuki to take Chris Thorburn (protecting Tobi Enstrom)
Ducks traded them Shea Theodore to take Calyton Stoner (protecting Sami Vatanen)

Minnesota with Tuch and Haula is another one. Mind you, I can't remember if there were cap considerations to any or all of those trades? I'd also only advocate giving up a pick - and ideally not a 1st - rather than a player. Still might be for the best to let the chips fall where they may though, yes.
 
Just awful. NHL GMs really handed Vegas success.
Seattle will have a great advantage having cap room, but teams won't repeat those mistakes.

At this rate, if it costs that much to protect specific players, the Leafs would be better off protecting 4/4 (the big 4 forwards, and then Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie/Holl - their proven top 4) and exposing Dermott/Kerfoot.

Luckily Lehtonen and Sandin provide some insurance defensive depth on the left side.

Unless you think that giving Seattle an asset to take Kerfoot is a better option. I'm not sure it is.

Either way Holl is proving himself to be someone that needs to be protected.
 
At this rate, if it costs that much to protect specific players, the Leafs would be better off protecting 4/4 (the big 4 forwards, and then Rielly/Muzzin/Brodie/Holl - their proven top 4) and exposing Dermott/Kerfoot.

Luckily Lehtonen and Sandin provide some insurance defensive depth on the left side.

Unless you think that giving Seattle an asset to take Kerfoot is a better option. I'm not sure it is.

Either way Holl is proving himself to be someone that needs to be protected.
Oh yeah. He's in his prime, RH shot, big, very good defensively, great cap hit. He must be kept
 
Nothing to worry about there is virtually nothing in 2021 draft worth keeping picks for ... it is worst draft ever ... and Kraken likely will take players over picks from what I hear ... but to keep our defense we might have to give up a 1st and a winger like Mik (no big deal) and in turn get Kraken to take Kerfoot

I've mentioned my thoughts about the 1st. Mikheyev would be in his walk year. He might still be a valuable player for the Leafs though depending on whether or not Hyman re-signs and Robertson emerges by then.
 
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Don't make a trade to protect players from expansion! Look at the teams that did that with Vegas, didn't work out well for them.

Florida traded Reilly Smith so Vegas would take Marchessault
Winnipeg gave up the pick for Nick Suzuki to take Chris Thorburn (protecting Tobi Enstrom)
Ducks traded them Shea Theodore to take Calyton Stoner (protecting Sami Vatanen)
at this juncture, I don't think a trade to protect Dermott would cost what those did. If the expansion draft were today and we wanted Seattle to take like an Engvall instead of Dermott, we could probably do something like Lehtonen or Lehtonen+a 3rd to 5th to make that happen -it's likely that teams are viewing Dermott & Lehtonen to be similar value right now, so that's a trade chip for us to decide which we want.

I'm a little concerned that Dermott will add to his perceived value between now and the end of the season but his role is going to be fairly limited by the guys above him so unless there's injuries it's unlikely that he gets himself to being a "bonafide top 4" type status that would hugely differentiate him from the guys he's competing for icetime on the bottom pairing with. I do see him as a guy who will be trustworthy in a bigger role in the future, and probably one that you can get on at least one more really team friendly deal, again unless he pops this year.

Also Vegas is a huge outlier, things just went so right for them. I don't think that level of luck in dealings is sustainable.

I would agree on the "don't overpay" ideology for trading to protect him.
 

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