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Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Him not being in the top 4 for a game is not him being replaced he's going to very likely be back there soon he needs to be replaced permanently
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Keefe did tip his hand when Holl and Muzzin played the last 1 minute 30 seconds when Chicago had their goalie pulled.
 
I was one of members who was frustrated by Babcock sitting Holl the whole season, and was pulling for him to get a chance. I was happy to see it happen for him.

I am not as down on him as many are, but it’s clear he is in over his head in a top 4 role.

He has value on the 3rd pairing with a partner who is good at breaking out of the defensive zone.

If he has that partner, he needs to be clear to keep his stuff simple. Get the puck and get it to his partner. I find Holl over thinks things and doesn’t decide quickly enough. Keep it simple, get the puck back, and get it off his stick, shelter him, and I think we would see a similar version of Holl that we saw last season….
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Him not being in the top 4 for a game is not him being replaced he's going to very likely be back there soon he needs to be replaced permanently
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It was the third game in a row, that he was 5th or 6th in ES ice time. He's still an important part of a successful PK, that we don't currently have a replacement for.
 
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It's a cliched thing to say, but he looks like he's overthinking plays too much on the ice. Needs to simplify things. Just make quick outlet passes, ect.
 
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Did the urgency of playing Edmonton kind of scare Holl straight last night? Played pretty well but Edmonton is also a tire fire lately.
 
I watched last nights game and only focused on counting puck turnovers and/or passing giveaways to Oilers last night from our D .. Holl had 9, Muzzy 5, Rielly 3, Brodie 3, Lily and Dermy with 2 each .. what it tells me is our kids are actually pretty darn good at not giving away pucks and deserve more ES time .. now factor in Muzzy, Rielly and Brodie are getting much tougher matchups on ice so numbers of giveaways would go up for Lily and Dermy with higher competition level for sure .. BOTTOM line ACC is right we need to trade for a VET4/5 defensive big dman if we want a shot in playoffs .. can't roll with Demry, Sandin and Lily (3 kids) in your top 6 come playoff time .. but right now of all 3 of them Lily would be one I would trust da most .. Sandin is way too slow and Dermy looks confused at times to me
 
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JT AM da real deal said:
I watched last nights game and only focused on counting puck turnovers and/or passing giveaways to Oilers last night from our D .. Holl had 9, Muzzy 5, Rielly 3, Brodie 3, Lily and Dermy with 2 each .. what it tells me is our kids are actually pretty darn good at not giving away pucks and deserve more ES time .. now factor in Muzzy, Rielly and Brodie are getting much tougher matchups on ice so numbers of giveaways would go up for Lily and Dermy with higher competition level for sure .. BOTTOM line ACC is right we need to trade for a VET4/5 defensive big dman if we want a shot in playoffs .. can't roll with Demry, Sandin and Lily (3 kids) in your top 6 come playoff time .. but right now of all 3 of them Lily would be one I would trust da most .. Sandin is way too slow and Dermy looks confused at times to me
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I think our solution is staring Keefe in the face, Muzzin with Lily, platoon Dermy with Holl once Sandin is back.
 
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Doublerum1975 said:
Funny muzzin is playing like crap makes more than holl nothing really said about him
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I'd say Muzzin has been defensively inferior but offensively superior. The margin is also greater for the latter. Muzzin is the better bet to me when both are at their best.
 
Holl has been a tire fire and I think they'll give him until close to the TDL to prove he belongs, if not, they'll upgrade.

Muzzin hasn't been quite himself but maybe he's no longer up for propping up a partner like Holl, he looked good with Brodie as his partner but then we need a partner for Rielly. I expect if Muzzin finishes poorly or gets injured in the playoffs *again* - he might also be a guy the Leafs look at moving on from...
 
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WTFMAN99 said:
Holl has been a tire fire and I think they'll give him until close to the TDL to prove he belongs, if not, they'll upgrade.

Muzzin hasn't been quite himself but maybe he's no longer up for propping up a partner like Holl, he looked good with Brodie as his partner but then we need a partner for Rielly. I expect if Muzzin finishes poorly or gets injured in the playoffs *again* - he might also be a guy the Leafs look at moving on from...
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We might be moving in some total real gangsta at the deadline sire............ like for real, I mean treal. We really can get another thug for us and totally kill it in the playoffs this time. We already have so many gangstas in simmonds, clifford, bunting (the half grinder pest), muzzin and ritchie (the semi-thug), but we could be changing ritchie for some total jerk off like evander kane and get even mo gangsta there. Even some d-plug might be coming in... like a luke schenn or some totally jerk like lyubucshkin, or like some dillon or gudas. They won't be trading them g's for us though, so we might settle on borowiechki. He still a mo thug grinda, with the balls and the word sire. Lets see what we'll get. It'll be something I'm sure. Bank on it. And invest hard.
 
leaf
WTFMAN99 said:
Holl has been a tire fire and I think they'll give him until close to the TDL to prove he belongs, if not, they'll upgrade.

Muzzin hasn't been quite himself but maybe he's no longer up for propping up a partner like Holl, he looked good with Brodie as his partner but then we need a partner for Rielly. I expect if Muzzin finishes poorly or gets injured in the playoffs *again* - he might also be a guy the Leafs look at moving on from...
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Muzzy going nowhere as everyone involved knew he was retiring a Leaf when he signed that deal .. we got lower AAV for 1st 2 years which is what team wanted and higher AAV for last 2 years by paying him bonuses upfront .. I think he gave team an option to trade him at TDL in his final year but bottom line it will be tough to do that deal unless he is still able to handle 2nd pair minutes but then they won't do it because they need him
 
CantLoseWithMatthews said:
after a pretty ugly start to the year, he's been great in 2022. 5 points and +10 in 9 games since January 1st. And nobody can say he's being carried by Muzzin
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Indeed. Since Jan 1:

xGF%

1. Holl (165min): 66.8%
2. Muzzin (87min): 65.1%
3. Dermott (156min): 59.4%
4. Liljegren (108min): 58.7%
5. Sandin (178min): 57.1%
6. Rielly (225min): 52.9%
7. Brodie (232min): 52.1%

GF%

1. Holl (165min): 79.7%
2. Dermott (156min): 57.3%
3. Sandin (178min): 57.4%
4. Liljegren (108min): 54.3%
5. Muzzin (87min): 52.7%
6. Rielly (225min): 52.7%
7. Brodie (232min): 46.7%


Holl has had moderately easier usage this past month as Rielly-Brodie have moved up into the top matchup duty with Muzzin out, but Muzzin's injury also made sure that Holl hasn't been sheltered as a bottom pair guy either.
 
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zeke said:
Indeed. Since Jan 1:

xGF%

1. Holl (165min): 66.8%
2. Muzzin (87min): 65.1%
3. Dermott (156min): 59.4%
4. Liljegren (108min): 58.7%
5. Sandin (178min): 57.1%
6. Rielly (225min): 52.9%
7. Brodie (232min): 52.1%

GF%

1. Holl (165min): 79.7%
2. Dermott (156min): 57.3%
3. Sandin (178min): 57.4%
4. Liljegren (108min): 54.3%
5. Muzzin (87min): 52.7%
6. Rielly (225min): 52.7%
7. Brodie (232min): 46.7%


Holl has had moderately easier usage this past month as Rielly-Brodie have moved up into the top matchup duty with Muzzin out, but Muzzin's injury also made sure that Holl hasn't been sheltered as a bottom pair guy either.
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Lili-Dermott

Not bad.

Lili props up everybody (;
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
He nearly blew it last night, he is the clear weak link on the defense and he's got to be upgraded on.
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Bad bounce of the stanchion.

Not like he left Mitch Marner wide open in front of the net for the tying goal like Carolina's "elite D" top pair did.
 
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