Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

[zeke]

The main issue is that Holl is over his head and at the least needs some sheltering on the third pair with reduced minutes.
When the lineup is healthy, there are just better options. He isn't part of the core and is producing below a replacement level player.

is he not currently on the 3rd pair?

 

[ShaneFalco]

We need a Holl of an upgrade

 

[ACC1224]

Like everyone was hoping Holl would be gone by New Year but with the Christmas freeze this probably isn't the case.
Odds on him being moved immediately after the freeze?

 

[Macallan18]

I'm saying that it's amusing that with the team at the top of the standings and underlying numbers to match, the hottest thread on the Leafs board is about their struggling #4 dman.

did you watch the Chicago game? Holl almost tanked that game single handedly.
So yes, fans are concerned and asking the question, who exactly does he have pictures of?
And before the end of the Chicago game he was rewarded for his excellent play by being put back on the shut down pairing with Muzzin.
It's just strange. If they are show casing him for a trade, they are not doing a good job of it.

 

[Stephen]

Like everyone was hoping Holl would be gone by New Year but with the Christmas freeze this probably isn't the case.
Odds on him being moved immediately after the freeze?

I don't think the Leafs need to rush into moving him. He really sucks this year but maybe they can rebuild his game once they diagnose what's wrong with him.

Seems like he's on the razor's edge of being too comfortable on plays sometimes. Like all the 'success' he's had has suddenly gone to his head and he's so casual on every play to the point of sloppiness. And then a split second later he realizes he's blown the coverage and can't react fast enough. He's not playing on his tippy toes.

There was a weird sequence last week when he misplayed a developing odd man situation and seemed to trip over himself repeatedly without deciding that he should fully pivot to skating backwards. He just kept floating and tripping. It was the weirdest thing.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Justin Holl thinks he has the offensive skills of Makar.

Plays way too pretty and nonchalant when he has no business playing like that. I agree with some other posters that it seems like his previous success has gotten to his head.

 

[Buds17]

Like everyone was hoping Holl would be gone by New Year but with the Christmas freeze this probably isn't the case.
Odds on him being moved immediately after the freeze?

Cap issues are primarily the reason as to why I'd anticipate any trading away of a roster player to occur by then. I'd say the odds aren't great beyond that.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Like everyone was hoping Holl would be gone by New Year but with the Christmas freeze this probably isn't the case.
Odds on him being moved immediately after the freeze?

Not good that ship sailed .. Holl and his agent know it .. you can see it in his play .. Keefer likely trying to get him to feel better about himself .. da end is near my friend .. this will be his last contract .. if we unload it will cost us pick(s) to unload AAV so likely depends on what vet D we can get back

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He's got to go the guy is terrible defensively and gives you NOTHING offensively to make up for it.

He makes WAY to many mistakes he HAS to be replaced in the top 4, and I'm not talking about replacing him in the top 4 for a couple games, I mean permanently.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Not good that ship sailed .. Holl and his agent know it .. you can see it in his play .. Keefer likely trying to get him to feel better about himself .. da end is near my friend .. this will be his last contract .. if we unload it will cost us pick(s) to unload AAV so likely depends on what vet D we can get back

2M with another year remaining after this is hardly unmovable but definitely going to be very little expectations for the return. Maybe a 4th round pick or a super cheap serviceable 7th defenseman if another team thinks he can be apart of their bottom 4.

 

[Fogelhund]

He's got to go the guy is terrible defensively and gives you NOTHING offensively to make up for it.

He makes WAY to many mistakes he HAS to be replaced in the top 4, and I'm not talking about replacing him in the top 4 for a couple games, I mean permanently.

Tell me you didn't watch last night's game, without actually saying you didn't watch last nights game.

 

[Fogelhund]

Once Sandin is back, our D is going to be pretty good.

	ESTOI
J. MuzzinD	20:19
T. LiljegrenD	20:07
T.J. BrodieD	17:32
M. RiellyD	16:46
T. DermottD	16:23
J. HollD	15:36

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Tell me you didn't watch last night's game, without actually saying you didn't watch last nights game.

I watched every second of it and 1 game does not change the fact he is the weak link on D

 

[Fogelhund]

I watched every second of it and 1 game does not change the fact he is the weak link on D

Sigh....

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sigh....

You keep living in denial abd pretending that doesn't do stupid things literally EVERY game.

The rest of us will live in reality.

 

[mccabe2424]

Any time he is pressured with the puck he freaks out

 

[Fogelhund]

You keep living in denial abd pretending that doesn't do stupid things literally EVERY game.

The rest of us will live in reality.

No the problem continues to be a complete inability for you to comprehend things. As posted above... which shouldn't be hard to miss, Holl was 6th in ES ice time. Is that understandable to you? Chart easy enough to read? Did you not watch the game, and then see Holl wasn't in the top 4? You come and make a post about Holl, and not wanting him to be in the top 4, when he wasn't in the top 4. He's already been replaced.

 

[kevsh]

He needs to be given highly protected minutes for a few games, at least, to get his head back where it needs to be. He looks like a rookie out there, terrified to make a mistake. His regular partner Muzzin is making some brutal plays himself, but in his case it doesn't seem to be confidence or pressure.

Just a few weeks ago - a bit after the Leafs started their turn-around - I wrote in a thread that despite the solid defensive numbers the team was putting up this blueline was a ways from giving me confidence they're capable enough for a deep playoff run. Mostly I was shot down, but here we are.

The good news is Sandin and Liljegren have been pretty solid, so cautiously optimistic they can maintain that into and through the playoffs, but if there's an experienced, reliable 2nd pairing RD out there Dubas should seriously consider it and sit Holl unless one of the top six gets injured.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Only positive from Holl last night was blowing a tire and drawing the penalty

 

[ottomaddox]

is he not currently on the 3rd pair?

Only because it's not possible to have a 4th pair.

 

[ACC1224]

He's got to go the guy is terrible defensively and gives you NOTHING offensively to make up for it.

He makes WAY to many mistakes he HAS to be replaced in the top 4, and I'm not talking about replacing him in the top 4 for a couple games, I mean permanently.

Pretty sure it's permanent now. He is playing so scared, fumbling all over the place.
Hate to see the team miss games but if COVID wipes out a few more we may get Sandin back which would at least move Holl to the press box without the team having to make any moves.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No the problem continues to be a complete inability for you to comprehend things. As posted above... which shouldn't be hard to miss, Holl was 6th in ES ice time. Is that understandable to you? Chart easy enough to read? Did you not watch the game, and then see Holl wasn't in the top 4? You come and make a post about Holl, and not wanting him to be in the top 4, when he wasn't in the top 4. He's already been replaced.

Him not being in the top 4 for a game is not him being replaced he's going to very likely be back there soon he needs to be replaced permanently

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Pretty sure it's permanent now. He is playing so scared, fumbling all over the place.
Hate to see the team miss games but if COVID wipes out a few more we may get Sandin back which would at least move Holl to the press box without the team having to make any moves.

I hope so it's permanent but I have my doubts, even still I would like to see somebody brought in to strengthen the top 4.

Personally I'm on the Giordano train but it doesn't NEED to be him.

 

[ACC1224]

I hope so it's permanent but I have my doubts, even still I would like to see somebody brought in to strengthen the top 4.

Personally I'm on the Giordano train but it doesn't NEED to be him.

I'd give Lilligren an extended run with it first but agree that they will need to bring someone else in who can move into that spot if needed.

 

[The Iceman]

did you watch the Chicago game? Holl almost tanked that game single handedly.
So yes, fans are concerned and asking the question, who exactly does he have pictures of?
And before the end of the Chicago game he was rewarded for his excellent play by being put back on the shut down pairing with Muzzin.
It's just strange. If they are show casing him for a trade, they are not doing a good job of it.

It is a numbers game at the moment. 6 healthy D and we started the season with 7.

Lets see when Sandin is healthy and Holl again can be rotated out.