Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

[zeke]

Leafs at a 113pt pace and Leafs nation is obsessing about the struggling #4 dman.

Love it.

 

[ottomaddox]

Leafs at a 113pt pace and Leafs nation is obsessing about the struggling #4 dman.

Love it.

Just as silly as your 113 point projection.

 

[Bluelines]

Its like Holl has forgotten even the basics of playing defense 101.

What he was doing on Chicago 1st and 3rd goals was anybody's best guess and what he was thinking and who he thought he was covering.

Watching Toews skate right into the slot as he back upped give him the HDSC from prime shooing territory, and why he chose to go and cover the same Hawk his partner already was playing leaving his man wide open for an easy goal among his most egregious lack of defense common sense plays yesterday.

He knows he's playing like $hit , so he does what virtually every person would do, which it try too hard and then that is where you start to make stupid mistakes, like creating a 2 on one for the other team when it should be a 2 on two. That first goal last night, wow, that's Aki Berg type defending. He's lucky this is not a contract year.

He needs a few nights off to get his head straight.

 

[Zybalto]

To be fair though, that game (honestly that whole mini series) against McDavid was the greatest hockey he's played in his career. He deserved to be commended for that performance, but let's not act like that's the norm for him or even a realistic expectation of how he should be playing.

That wasnt an outlier though.

His numbers the last couple of seasons are pretty amazing.

Here are his 5v5 numbers playing the shutdown role against other teams top lines from when Keefe took over to the end of last season:

CF%: 51.75
xGF%: 55.50

Those are near the top of the league for shutdown dmen. They are legit. He's not only near the bottom of the league now, he's at the bottom of the team.

I'm not defending his dreadful play this season but don't try to change the past.

 

[ToneDog]

Leafs at a 113pt pace and Leafs nation is obsessing about the struggling #4 dman.

Love it.

Hope you can say the same thing in May.

 

[Bluelines]

Just as silly as your 113 point projection.

Cut him a break, stats are not his thing.

 

[zeke]

Just as silly as your 113 point projection.

Not a projection of course.

Any way you want to describe their record, it says the same thing.

 

[Holls Blackmail]

Not a projection of course.

Any way you want to describe their record, it says the same thing.

Why settle for 113 pt pace when you can jettison Holl into the sun and go up to a 125 pt pace?

 

[zeke]

Why settle for 113 pt pace when you can jettison Holl into the sun and go up to a 125 pt pace?

And then it's on to obsessing about the one struggling player on that 125pt pace team.

 

[Zybalto]

And then it's on to obsessing about the one struggling player on that 125pt pace team.

After seeing the collective freakout over Adam freaking Brooks, anything is possible. Half expected a jersey to be thrown on the ice during that episode.

 

[ACC1224]

After seeing the collective freakout over Adam freaking Brooks, anything is possible. Half expected a jersey to be thrown on the ice during that episode.

Crazy fans caring about their favourite team.

 

[francis246]

Did he actually get loaned to the ECHL today? That has to be a troll account hahaha

 

[Zybalto]

Top xGF% for Dmen from Keefe's hiring to the end of last season (1600+ 5v5 minutes, 67 dmen total):

1. Toews
2. Girard
3. McAvoy
4. Theodore
5. Petry
6. Graves
7. Holl
8. Sergachev
9. Oleksiak
10. Slavin

Guess which one of those guys went up against the hardest QoC?

I really hope he finds his game again. One of the better stories the last couple years as a guy who worked his tail off and made it. Don't like seeing folks kicking a guy when he's down after really being a stud for the team.

 

[Zybalto]

Crazy fans caring about their favourite team.

Hey, I can appreciate the sentiment but there seems to be a disconnect with value to the team going on. This is HFBoards though and pumping the tires of prospects over established players is the norm I guess.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

He's just making some of the strangest mistakes I've ever seen. Last night alone was extremely frustrating as he stands out on the first goal by not playing the shooter and staying right in the middle and another goal were he goes to double team the puck carrier and leaves his man all alone.

Just weird decisions

 

[LeafChief]

Did he actually get loaned to the ECHL today? That has to be a troll account hahaha

Damien Cox is a moron.



Anyone see him post the 'live sex' tab last weekend? Time for him to log out.

 

[Zybalto]

He knows he's playing like $hit , so he does what virtually every person would do, which it try too hard and then that is where you start to make stupid mistakes, like creating a 2 on one for the other team when it should be a 2 on two. That first goal last night, wow, that's Aki Berg type defending. He's lucky this is not a contract year.

He needs a few nights off to get his head straight.

I think they tried this earlier in the season and he was OK for a couple of games and then slipped again.

Lily and Sandin looking like they are taking the next step is certainly coming at the right time.

 

[justashadowof]

 

[Oscar Peterson]

That wasnt an outlier though.

His numbers the last couple of seasons are pretty amazing.

Here are his 5v5 numbers playing the shutdown role against other teams top lines from when Keefe took over to the end of last season:

CF%: 51.75
xGF%: 55.50

Those are near the top of the league for shutdown dmen. They are legit. He's not only near the bottom of the league now, he's at the bottom of the team.

I'm not defending his dreadful play this season but don't try to change the past.

My argument back is that it was always pretty obvious to me that those numbers were unsustainable? Not taking away from how successful that pairing was, but that was clearly due to Muzzin's dominance and Holl rightfully would defer to him frequently. He still frustrated the heck out of me with his decision making all year long, and this season all three of Sandin, Lilly, and Dermott clearly look better to me, so it's frustrating to see them rotate out while he gets a free pass. Listen I love our D Corps especially with these young guys playing and all I'm saying is I'd hate to lose a playoff game on the grounds of Holl not knowing how to play a 2 on 2 (and last night was far from the only time he's made that mistake). Is that not fair?

 

[ottomaddox]

Not a projection of course.

Any way you want to describe their record, it says the same thing.

I would describe their record as:

29 GP 19 W 8 L 2 OTL 40 Points

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Impressive post to like ration brother, it would be higher if you took those thick dense paragraphs of yours and cut them up...Its a device to eye world leaf brother...

I am approaching mole eye status and reading interesting posts that are too dense is a big part of it, help me, help, you.

Haha cheers Leafs brother

I type a lot on my phone which is difficult so I sometimes just try to get the words out as fast as possible

My eye sight has been going downhill too so I understand the struggle

 

[Zybalto]

My argument back is that it was always pretty obvious to me that those numbers were unsustainable? Not taking away from how successful that pairing was, but that was clearly due to Muzzin's dominance and Holl rightfully would defer to him frequently. He still frustrated the heck out of me with his decision making all year long, and this season all three of Sandin, Lilly, and Dermott clearly look better to me, so it's frustrating to see them rotate out while he gets a free pass. Listen I love our D Corps especially with these young guys playing and all I'm saying is I'd hate to lose a playoff game on the grounds of Holl not knowing how to play a 2 on 2 (and last night was far from the only time he's made that mistake). Is that not fair?

I actually thought both he and Dermott were pretty awful to start the year but Dermott turned it around somewhat (so of course he gets hurt).

With Sandin and Lilly and even some others looking to make the jump, I'm hoping Holl at least solidifies himself as a dependable bottom pairing guy the rest of the way leaving room for the kids to battle for the #4 on the team.

I really do understand the frustration though. He's been hard to watch.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

He falls back to frequently and doesn't play the body and doesn't close gaps. He gives the opposing player an ample amount of space and freedom as they skate past the blue line and near the hash marks by the face off circles. Prototypical house league basics 101. If I had this man's stature I'd be throwing my body around f***ing left, right and center as well. Its actually quite shameful watching him on the ice...his hockey IQ and intuition as a "pro athlete" is horrendous. Complete liability regardless of the mumbo jumbo Sheldon feeds the media with his view on Holl. He is just keeping the peace and doesn't want to cause a dramatic situation since the team is tied for first place and doesn't want to ruin anyones confidence. Sheldon is just utilizing the "pieces" he is given and tries to make the most of those pieces in any given situation.

 

[zeke]

I would describe their record as:

29 GP 19 W 8 L 2 OTL 40 Points

And how good is that kind of record, exactly?

 

[Griffin76]

Holl has been a legit solid shutdown D the last couple of years but seems to have lost a step as quickly as he found one. It's a tough fast league out there and you have to remember he's the same guy that was legit frustrating and shutting down McDavid 8 months ago.

You can see why the team wants to give him a chance to find his game and I don't see anything wrong with that. He could be a valuable commodity if he gets close to what he was not long ago.

People also forget that that series also featured Hyman, Mikheyev and Engvall as the third line shutdown line. They did a number on the Oilers. Back when the "Hyman makes every line he plays on better" crap started.