Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
33,221
34,956
Dartmouth,NS
I still and I know I am on this hill with very few fellow fans contend that Holl is a far better player then this fanbase wants to recognize. As a fanbase we seem to have to find a whipping boy on defense....this is going back to like the f***ing 70's or 80 at this point. Holl isn't perfect but he is a serviceable NHL defensemen.
 

The90

Registered User
Feb 27, 2017
6,157
4,954
He’s been much better the last month or so. Once Muzzin gets back up the speed, they have lots of options back there. Not sure how he almost blew the game off a lucky bounce, but half this fan base just needs someone to yell at and blame.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,382
7,791
He looked like a solid #7 last night .. but in that #4 role we need a big man who can skate and plays rough .. that go ahead goal by Canes in 3rd lets be frank here .. that is d*mn aweful net front defending .. might as well do a Engval and shoot it in your own net .. absolute GARBAGE defending you expect in ATOM hockey
 
  • Like
Reactions: smitty10

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,854
2,740
Toronto
He looked like a solid #7 last night .. but in that #4 role we need a big man who can skate and plays rough .. that go ahead goal by Canes in 3rd lets be frank here .. that is d*mn aweful net front defending .. might as well do a Engval and shoot it in your own net .. absolute GARBAGE defending you expect in ATOM hockey
The mistake off the glass was forgivable. However, as you pointed out, the defending in front of the net afterward was typical of Holl. Big man who doesn't use his body to his advantage at this level and constantly misses coverage. He has some good tools that he can't seem to put together on a consistent basis. He thinks he's a finesse Dman. If he's on our third pairing and playing limited minutes I can handle him on this roster. Not in our top 4.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,382
7,791
The mistake off the glass was forgivable. However, as you pointed out, the defending in front of the net afterward was typical of Holl. Big man who doesn't use his body to his advantage at this level and constantly misses coverage. He has some good tools that he can't seem to put together on a consistent basis. He thinks he's a finesse Dman. If he's on our third pairing and playing limited minutes I can handle him on this roster. Not in our top 4.
In playoffs that would have created da loss .. hockey is a game of mistakes but those kinda mistakes where you lose your man in front of net are typically made by finese defense looking for offense and we have too many of those types .. we need 3 guys who play DEFENSE and 3 guys who can play more offensive role in playoffs .. right now MIX is bad .. Muzzy plus 2 defensive big guys incoming is required .. Sandin Dermy and Lily need to sit out these playoffs
 
  • Like
Reactions: notdoneyet

Budz22

Registered User
Sep 18, 2018
1,217
2,992
Legend has it that he’s still looking for the puck on that 3rd goal.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
77,345
44,314
The mistake off the glass was forgivable. However, as you pointed out, the defending in front of the net afterward was typical of Holl. Big man who doesn't use his body to his advantage at this level and constantly misses coverage. He has some good tools that he can't seem to put together on a consistent basis. He thinks he's a finesse Dman. If he's on our third pairing and playing limited minutes I can handle him on this roster. Not in our top 4.
He did the exact thing against New Jersey the other night. Obvious weak link and the team should be very concerned having him in the top 4 come playoff time.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,382
7,791
Holl seems to engage in those net front battles like his mind is fast forwarding to the transition.
Yes most times but last night he opted not to ENGAGE at all .. in fact he skated towards puck carrier who already had 2 guys on him and left his guy wide open
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cams

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
82,209
60,524
Yes most times but last night he opted not to ENGAGE at all .. in fact he skated towards puck carrier who already had 2 guys on him and left his guy wide open

Yeah I saw that. It was like an Xbox controller running out batteries on the dump in but the game wasn’t paused. I wonder if he expected some kind of whistle and just checked out. Such an Aki Holl moment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT AM da real deal

Havoc

Registered User
Jul 25, 2009
7,334
7,600
Yes most times but last night he opted not to ENGAGE at all .. in fact he skated towards puck carrier who already had 2 guys on him and left his guy wide open
This isn't true. The only guy on the player who got the puck after the bounce was Tavares, and Tavares was chasing the play. That puck carrier became Holls man, not the man going to the net. Sandin even points to Holl to take puck.

Then I don't know what the hell happened after that. Collective collapse. Kerfoot didn't even seem to interested rushing the trailer when he hopped on the ice.
 

thusk

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
4,688
2,551
Chicoutimi
I still and I know I am on this hill with very few fellow fans contend that Holl is a far better player then this fanbase wants to recognize. As a fanbase we seem to have to find a whipping boy on defense....this is going back to like the f***ing 70's or 80 at this point. Holl isn't perfect but he is a serviceable NHL defensemen.

Exactly. Holl is an excellent 3rd pairing dman who play top shutdown pair. Its not his fault if hes in the wrong chair.
He do all he can with tools he have.


The problem is toronto dont have any RD ready for a top 4 role and dont have cap space for a long term d #4.

I heard a lot about braun, it is an upgrape or not? I don't know but if the price is right, why not trying it. Giving a 3rd or 4th for a dmen who maybe get the job done, why not?

Or a Colin Miller, Giordano, chiarot, Manson, De haan... Toronto need to examinate everything that can help defensivly.
 

JT AM da real deal

Registered User
Oct 4, 2018
12,382
7,791
This isn't true. The only guy on the player who got the puck after the bounce was Tavares, and Tavares was chasing the play. That puck carrier became Holls man, not the man going to the net. Sandin even points to Holl to take puck.

Then I don't know what the hell happened after that. Collective collapse. Kerfoot didn't even seem to interested rushing the trailer when he hopped on the ice.
Watch da replay it is crystal clear .. are you kidding with me? .. JT was chasing puck carrier wide, Sandin moved up from bottom of circle to defend/attack puck carrier which is correct position as a left side D and Holl is watching whole thing in a complete daze and does not even turn his head to cover his man on right side D who was at net .. he does absolutely NOTHING ZILCH except skate forward .. like I said he might as well have shot puck in his own net .. he is one of those guys who is in NOWHERE LAND on defense .. anyhow he learned his hockey somewhere in States where who da h*ll knows what they teach to defenders .. but it has nothing to do with proper defensive play
 

Havoc

Registered User
Jul 25, 2009
7,334
7,600
Watch da replay it is crystal clear .. are you kidding with me? .. JT was chasing puck carrier wide, Sandin moved up from bottom of circle to defend/attack puck carrier which is correct position as a left side D and Holl is watching whole thing in a complete daze and does not even turn his head to cover his man on right side D who was at net .. he does absolutely NOTHING ZILCH except skate forward .. like I said he might as well have shot puck in his own net .. he is one of those guys who is in NOWHERE LAND on defense .. anyhow he learned his hockey somewhere in States where who da h*ll knows what they teach to defenders .. but it has nothing to do with proper defensive play


5:15-5:20. Holl is second man in after Sandin points to take puck. Sandins skates aren't moving at the point Holl becomes the 2nd man.

Keep in mind I did not defend anything Holl did after, but he definitely did not take a guy who already had 2 guys on him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: banks and zeke

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
31,227
14,089
Earth
I still and I know I am on this hill with very few fellow fans contend that Holl is a far better player then this fanbase wants to recognize. As a fanbase we seem to have to find a whipping boy on defense....this is going back to like the f***ing 70's or 80 at this point. Holl isn't perfect but he is a serviceable NHL defensemen.
I don't think hes terrible, he just needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing. He's just not good enough as a #4 on a contender.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
I don't think hes terrible, he just needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing. He's just not good enough as a #4 on a contender.

He is currently the #4 dman (on the top matchup pairijg) for one of the best teams and defensive teams in hockey this year and last.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dekes For Days

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
77,345
44,314
I don't think hes terrible, he just needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing. He's just not good enough as a #4 on a contender.
It becomes more and more obvious with each game you watch.
 

Leafsfan74

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
5,538
5,936
I still and I know I am on this hill with very few fellow fans contend that Holl is a far better player then this fanbase wants to recognize. As a fanbase we seem to have to find a whipping boy on defense....this is going back to like the f***ing 70's or 80 at this point. Holl isn't perfect but he is a serviceable NHL defensemen.

Any defenseman who is willing to make life difficult for opposition forwards will always have value on a team, especially as the stakes are raised.

He was going through a slightly tough stretch (sometimes overblown by fans), but he wasn't backing down or letting forwards run amok. I saw a slight hesitation at times which cost him.

Once a defenseman is afraid to get dirty, then you can write him off. Holl and Muzzin were a vital physical shutdown pair for a reason.

Whether he is with Muzzin, or, say a big deadline pickup at #4 pushes him down on a strong 3rd pairing with Sandin (which to me would tell the league that this team is stacked with strong defenseman to match our forwards), he can play a key role this playoffs.
 
Last edited:

TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
33,221
34,956
Dartmouth,NS
I don't think hes terrible, he just needs to be sheltered on the 3rd pairing. He's just not good enough as a #4 on a contender.
I mean if Muzzin comes back and finds his form I see absolutely no issue with that being our 2nd pairing. I would like more depth on the backend to insulate us from injuries or let us rotate based on specific match ups but I really do think people overlook what Holl actually is relative to the rest of the league. I consistently see people list replacements for him that are basically what he already is...or a worse player. Typically in our past a player like Holl gets chased out of town because they aren't good enough eventually land themselves on a different good team....and they win. As a fanbase we seem to need a whipping boy on defense. Just the way it is. I don't think it is exactly a coincidence that our worst defensive stretch of the season was with both Holl and Muzzin out of the lineup btw.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gary Nylund

Mr_Fun

FFS!
Sponsor
Oct 7, 2006
5,146
4,943
BC
Yes, Holl didn't make a great decision on that 3rd goal, but if to be fair, nobody covered the guy very well on the 1st goal. The point here is that had that been Holl on the ice, this place would have jumped all over him.

I think criticism of Holl is deserved at times, but, it's way over the top. But like has been mentioned -- Leaf fans always have a whipping boy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Podium

HaveKnifeWillButcher

Registered User
Apr 23, 2018
299
272
Watch da replay it is crystal clear .. are you kidding with me? .. JT was chasing puck carrier wide, Sandin moved up from bottom of circle to defend/attack puck carrier which is correct position as a left side D and Holl is watching whole thing in a complete daze and does not even turn his head to cover his man on right side D who was at net .. he does absolutely NOTHING ZILCH except skate forward .. like I said he might as well have shot puck in his own net .. he is one of those guys who is in NOWHERE LAND on defense .. anyhow he learned his hockey somewhere in States where who da h*ll knows what they teach to defenders .. but it has nothing to do with proper defensive play
I've heard that American hockey coaches teach defenders completely off what they learned in Mighty Ducks movies.
 

The Iceman

Registered User
Sep 22, 2007
5,293
3,995
Holl is paid like a 3rd pair D
He plays like a 3rd pair D
Can't hate on him that he has to play 2nd pair.

He has had a solid run recently without Muzz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: banks

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad