Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

[TheScandal89]

He hasnt played terrible but to say he's been good because "he's only been on the ice for 1 goal against", while true isnt the full story.

Game 3 he took the penalty that led Tampas PP goal in the 2nd. You can't completely blame him since we've been taking penalties like crazy.

In the 3rd period he made a extremely poor pinch that led to a Kucherov breakaway, which was luckily saved, but Tampa would score off the ensuing faceoff after he changed. The rest of the game he played fairly well but I still prefer Gio-Lilly.

I'm not even gonna talk about game 4, it just wasn't our night top to bottom.

 

[notbias]

Holl > Lub (but hitting)
Liljegren > Holl (but PK)

Liljegren > Holl > Lub

there is clearly a weak link but it isn't Holl

 

[zeke]

Watch the damn games.

You’re completely ignoring him getting walked in game 3 like a moron and taking a penalty leading to a goal against. Not to mention his other boneheaded giveaways, terrible pinch decisions, and god awful line changes that have led to goals. Then there are the little things like failing easy clears which leads to extended shifts that contribute to team fatigue.

Leafs fans aren’t idiots. There is a reason why 99% of people can’t stand seeing him
play and it’s not just social media uproar. Anecdotally, I visited my father who’s a massive leafs fan and doesn’t even have social media… even he says the guy sucks.

I think you need to watch the games tbh

 

[notDatsyuk]

I just watched that opening minute again.

Holl and Gio got the puck to their forwards four times. Twice near the blueline, where the forwards weren't able to get it out, and twice into the neutral zone, where the forwards were unable to get it deep enough for the D to change. Kampf and Engvall managed to change for Kase and Tavares.

Kase left the zone early, allowing Palat to keep the puck in at the point, then Tavares out of position chasing the puck was what gave the opposing center (his man) lots of room to score.

The two players who were close enough to Stamkos to screen Campbell, but not to prevent the pass or the shot, were Kase and Tavares.

 

[supermann_98]

The vitriol he gets is insane. There's always 1 player that gets insane amount of hate on this team, but this is new levels.

Nah, Gardiner got booed out of town basically. Holl gets hate online but the average fan at the game likes him.

 

[PromisedLand]

never thought anyone will have more "staying power" than Marincin

Enter: Justin Holl

 

[zeke]

I just watched that opening minute again.

Holl and Gio got the puck to their forwards four times. Twice near the blueline, where the forwards weren't able to get it out, and twice into the neutral zone, where the forwards were unable to get it deep enough for the D to change. Kampf and Engvall managed to change for Kase and Tavares.

Kase left the zone early, allowing Palat to keep the puck in at the point, then Tavares out of position chasing the puck was what gave the opposing center (his man) lots of room to score.

The two players who were close enough to Stamkos to screen Campbell, but not to prevent the pass or the shot, were Kase and Tavares.

yup.

 

[zeke]

its the only full game vid i could find, sorry, so just mute the idiot in the corner.

anyways, look at the opening shift here (I think i've cued it up correctly - if not it starts at 15:15), and tell me which leafs made good plays on this opening shift and which leafs made bad plays.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

its the only full game vid i could find, sorry, so just mute the idiot in the corner.

anyways, look at the opening shift here (I think i've cued it up correctly - if not it starts at 15:15), and tell me which leafs made good plays on this opening shift and which leafs made bad plays.

-Gio held onto the puck for too long and turned it over
-Engvall couldn't get it out near the blue line
-Mikheyev with a NZ turnover
-Holl made a bad decision to reverse behind the net to Gio with two Tampa players in the area and Leafs forwards changing (and long shift for him + Gio)
-Holl with a bad breakout pass instead of just flipping it out of the zone and getting the change

That's my biggest issue with this system. I understand trying to keep possession of the puck, but soemtimes you just need to get it out of the zone any way you can, especially after a long shift. You have fresh opposing forwrads charging in hard while you're playing hot potato with your teammates....usually doesn't end well

 

[zeke]

-Gio held onto the puck for too long and turned it over
-Engvall couldn't get it out near the blue line
-Mikheyev with a NZ turnover
-Holl made a bad decision to reverse behind the net to Gio with two Tampa players in the area (and long shift)
-Holl with a bad breakout pass instead of just flipping it out of the zone and getting the change

That's my biggest issue with this system. I understand trying to keep possession of the puck, but soemtimes you just need to get it out of the zone any way you can, especially after a long shift. You have fresh opposing forwrads charging in hard while you're playing hot potato with your teammates....usually doesn't end well

Mostly agree. Don't really agree that that was a bad reverse by Holl tho - three Bolts had triangulated on him there and Gio had an easy out up the boards if he had made a quicker decision.

Bad break out pass by Holl sure, but that's also Kase flying right by that dman leaving the dman between him and the puck.

Not sure on the first clear attempt whos more to blame between gio and mikky but probably both. And the Engvall turnover is probably the worst play on the whole shift.

 

[Menzinger]

The vitriol he gets is insane. There's always 1 player that gets insane amount of hate on this team, but this is new levels.

This is definitely true. Some of the reactions in the last gdt were insane

The fact is one can still make a perfectly reasonable case for him to be in the lineup getting bottom pairing usage. Even though he does make some very frustrating brain farts mid game

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Mostly agree. Don't really agree that that was a bad reverse by Holl tho - three Bolts had triangulated on him there and Gio had an easy out up the boards if he had made a quicker decision.

Bad break out pass by Holl sure, but that's also Kase flying right by that dman leaving the dman between him and the puck.

Not sure on the first clear attempt whos more to blame between gio and mikky but probably both. And the Engvall turnover is probably the worst play on the whole shift.

Not sure about easy out for Gio when all 3 forwards were changing. There wasn't a winger option on his side, so a clear along the boards would have likely been intercepted by the Tampa D

 

[zeke]

Not sure about easy out for Gio when all 3 forwards were changing. There wasn't a winger option on his side, so a clear along the boards would have likely been intercepted by the Tampa D

Looked like the Tampa D were changing to me.

 

[Lightsol]

What I'm getting from this is Boosh should be the one sitting. Physicality or not he just gets destroyed.

The issue is, that makes an already soft D-core even softer, and that's while we're icing the softest forward lineup we can. And being easy to push around HAS been a somewhat large factor in previous series losses...

The issue is the Leafs are too afraid to use Lilj next to anybody but Gio, and that practically necessitates using Boosh with Reilly. If they could get Boosh away from Reilly and with another partner, he might not be as bad. But that would require giving Reilly back Brodie, and thus Boosh would have to play with Muzzin. We already know Muzzin looks terrible with Holl; how much worse would he look with Boosh?

If the Leafs would just go back to playing Lilj with Muzzin and Reilly with Brodie, then it's less of a problem, but they won't.

 

[Lightsol]

-Gio held onto the puck for too long and turned it over
-Engvall couldn't get it out near the blue line
-Mikheyev with a NZ turnover
-Holl made a bad decision to reverse behind the net to Gio with two Tampa players in the area and Leafs forwards changing (and long shift for him + Gio)
-Holl with a bad breakout pass instead of just flipping it out of the zone and getting the change

That's my biggest issue with this system. I understand trying to keep possession of the puck, but soemtimes you just need to get it out of the zone any way you can, especially after a long shift. You have fresh opposing forwrads charging in hard while you're playing hot potato with your teammates....usually doesn't end well

Left out the part where immediately after that terrible flip to the charging Tampa players, Holl then proceeds to do what he does best; stand there and not take a man while Tampa sets up a screen that allows Stamkos to score. And THAT more than anything is my issue with Justin Holl. Way, way, way too often, he stops skating and just watches the other team set up. At least Boosh tries to break that shit up. Holl just can't be bothered most of the time, and it's what tends to lead to bad goals when he's on the ice.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

-Gio held onto the puck for too long and turned it over
-Engvall couldn't get it out near the blue line
-Mikheyev with a NZ turnover
-Holl made a bad decision to reverse behind the net to Gio with two Tampa players in the area and Leafs forwards changing (and long shift for him + Gio)
-Holl with a bad breakout pass instead of just flipping it out of the zone and getting the change

That's my biggest issue with this system. I understand trying to keep possession of the puck, but soemtimes you just need to get it out of the zone any way you can, especially after a long shift. You have fresh opposing forwrads charging in hard while you're playing hot potato with your teammates....usually doesn't end well

Bad shift by everyone out so the main blame should be on Keefe. Do we have 40 mil tied up in superstars or not? They showed up late to the game I guess had to play what we had available.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Mostly agree. Don't really agree that that was a bad reverse by Holl tho - three Bolts had triangulated on him there and Gio had an easy out up the boards if he had made a quicker decision.

Bad break out pass by Holl sure, but that's also Kase flying right by that dman leaving the dman between him and the puck.

Not sure on the first clear attempt whos more to blame between gio and mikky but probably both. And the Engvall turnover is probably the worst play on the whole shift.

I think that was Palat rather than a D that Kase left, but bad either way, especially when your own D have been under pressure for almost a minute.

Nobody interested in even mentioning Tavares abandoning his man, who scored, in the slot?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Left out the part where immediately after that terrible flip to the charging Tampa players, Holl then proceeds to do what he does best; stand there and not take a man while Tampa sets up a screen that allows Stamkos to score. And THAT more than anything is my issue with Justin Holl. Way, way, way too often, he stops skating and just watches the other team set up. At least Boosh tries to break that shit up. Holl just can't be bothered most of the time, and it's what tends to lead to bad goals when he's on the ice.

The screen was Kase and Tavares, because neither was close enough to Stamkos to stop either the pass to him, or his shot.

 

[IPS]

Holl was.... elite?!

 

[keonsbitterness]

Holl was.... elite?!

He was good tonight.

 

[AuraSphere]

Holl was very very good tonight. Played like a top 4 dman no doubt. He shut up the haters - and I was one of them.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Time for a Nickname. Hollsy

 

[Paradoc]

I would like Holl a lot more if he just stick to simple plays instead of thinking he's Makar or Josi lol

 

[Zybalto]

Holl 5v5 in the playoffs so far:

xGF%: 67.51 (5th best out of 96 dmen with more than 30 minutes played)
XGF% REL: +21.34 (3rd best out of 96 dmen with more than 30 minutes played)

Also great on the PK.

Looking for Steve Simmons for a comment but he's out looking for that hot dog cart....

What a clown.

 

[ToDavid]

Holl has had a rough season and Liljegren earned the start to the playoffs but Keefe wasn't wrong here. Liljegren wasn't good in games 1 and 2, he was cracking under pressure and throwing away the puck, often. Holl has made the most of his opportunity.

Despite a notable boneheaded play at the start of the game (and the blame can be shared by his winger who blew the zone and gave him absolutely nothing), Holl was not the biggest problem on Sunday. Now another solid game tonight.