Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

[Bluelines]

I wonder if Holl is really having as bad of a season as fans think he is?

On the Leafs, no defender gets as much dZS% as Holl, no defender has as high of a oiSH% as Holl. He gets the most difficult deployment but his team is more likey to score with him on the ice.

Really surprised me to see Brodie and Rielly receive as low dZS as they do. I would have thought our #1 and #2 d-man would get more defensive zone starts. IMO it would be like Matthews and Marner getting the least amount of oZS%. Shouldn't you use your best defenders in defensive situations?

The ranking is sorted by all Leaf skaters by dZS%. Which is why it starts at #6.

Rk	Player	Age	Pos	GP	oiSH%	oiSV%	PDO	oZS%	dZS%	TOI(EV)
6	Justin Holl	30	D	40	9.8	91.8	101.6	43.6	56.4	17:49
7	Jake Muzzin	32	D	41	8.9	89.1	98	45.8	54.2	18:01
9	Ilya Lyubushkin	27	D	2	23.1	85.7	108.8	52.6	47.4	15:02
10	T.J. Brodie	31	D	51	8.5	92.1	100.6	52.7	47.3	18:52
11	Rasmus Sandin	21	D	44	8.5	92.4	101	52.8	47.2	15:32
12	Travis Dermott	25	D	37	9	92	101	53.9	46.1	13:58
13	Morgan Rielly	27	D	51	9.4	91.4	100.9	54.1	45.9	19:24
17	Timothy Liljegren	22	D	35	9.2	90.4	99.5	57.5	42.5	14:51
19	Carl Dahlstrom	27	D	1	25	100	125	60	40	11:07
27	Kristians Rubins	24	D	3	6.3	75	81.3	66.7	33.3	11:20
28	Alex Biega	33	D	2	0	83.3	83.3	69.2	30.8	12:48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[mulefarm]

Holl had been very good all season. Something like a plus 10. Most people just want to rip on him.

 

[Doublerum1975]

I think muzzin has been a lot worse this year

 

[TakeTheBody]

He's paid like a 5th or 6th defenseman. Muzzin covered him for awhile. Now he's a little more exposed. Hard to be disappointed though. He doesn't make much money. You want disappointment look up the ladder more.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think muzzin has been a lot worse this year

Muzzin has been injured

Holl just sucks

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Holl had been very good all season. Something like a plus 10. Most people just want to rip on him.

+/- doesn't mean shit

 

[Teeder Keon]

+/- doesn't mean shit

Agree

 

[Doublerum1975]

Muzzin has been injured

Holl just sucks

No before he got injured he was playing terrible

 

[Zybalto]

Holl was bad in October but pretty good the rest of the year. The kids making the jump the season is what is taking him out more than anything (and really helping with the Muzzin situation too).

I think Dermott may be in bigger trouble deadline day.

 

[Mess]

How do you turn a #4 into and #7?

You simply add a Ilya Lyubushkin and suddenly your #4 Dman and 2nd pairing becomes a healthy scratch.

With Muzzin out, it was assumed Holl would step up, but instead he has stepped out and the results of the team has been an improvement in play.

The eyes don't lie.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Holl was bad in October but pretty good the rest of the year. The kids making the jump the season is what is taking him out more than anything (and really helping with the Muzzin situation too).

I think Dermott may be in bigger trouble deadline day.

more correctly, he was good from oct through December and awful from jam through to beginning / mid Feb. he’s been OK since.

 

[dubplatepressure]

The Rielly one is a fine example I guess but elite players take top 4 Ds to school all the time. They just take Holl to school less often than most .

In all seriousness, this fanbase is way too hard on the Dmen who do the dirty work on the team. The ones who play the awful zone starts and face the other teams top guys.

Even using the old school +/-, Holl is +35 the last 3 seasons playing against the best players in the world with team save% ranking 20th in the league over that time. It's not like playing in the Canadian division made things any easier as lack of top-end scoring certainly wasn't an issue there. He's been less consistent this year and never that great offensively but we are still getting a 4 million + Dman for 2 million right now IMO.

generally agree. When he’s off he’s awful but he’s certainly not alone in that. IMO he’s an above average 3RD on a contending team; he will regularly struggle through stretches if played higher in the lineup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Holl actually had a good period for once

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

7 points in his last 4 games.

Who is this guy and what did he do with the real Justin Holl?!?

 

[A1LeafNation]

...he's backkkk

 

[Teeder Keon]

...he's backkkk

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Holl has been just fine away from Muzzin. it was completely unfair that people characterized Muzzin's awful play dragging him down as if it was him being exposed for being a sub-NHL defenseman now that he wasn't being carried by an elite partner. Hopefully he can keep it up, as he's providing good value for just 2 million

 

[Menzinger]

He's been great the last half dozen games or so

 

[Zybalto]

more correctly, he was good from oct through December and awful from jam through to beginning / mid Feb. he’s been OK since.

Naw, he was trash in October which was why he got benched early and came back really solid.

Since January 1st, his stats are really good:

Holl 5v5 since January 1st and ranking out of the 121 dmen with 300+5v5 minutes):

CF%: 57.31 (9th out of 121)
SF%: 55.35 (22nd out of 121)
HDCF%: 69.64 (1st out of 121 by far)
xGF%: 62.71 (1st out of 121)
GF%: 65.63 (10th out of 121)

 

[Griffin76]

Guy has been excellent the last few games. And that's a lot of praise coming from me. He's still 4th on the right side for me behind Brodie, Liljegren and Lyubushkin. But as long as Brodie has to play the left side, I don't mind Holl being out there. When they acquire someone he should be the one going the other way or at least scratched. Another stretch of ECHL level games is inevitable...I just don't want to see them in the playoffs.

He lives and dies by the Muzz.

 

[The Podium]

Glad people are starting to see that Holl wasn’t the problem

 

[Maplebeasts]

Looking like Muzzin might actually be the weak link in the D which would be really sad. I like him and he can play with some snarl but it's hard to argue the defense looks worse without him.

 

[Puckstuff]

This has been his best stretch by a wide margin he’s been terrific on both sides. He’s essentially been close to mistake free for over 5 games while putting up ppg +. He looks like he’s back to being a # 4 D.

 

[ACC1224]

He's had a couple good games which is nice to see but the bulk of his games still leaves me believing he's a bottom pair player.

 

[Lemontree]

He has been pointing up points that last 2 games but isn’t anyone still concerned that he is always in deep in the offensive zone, once the play starts going back the other way again and it will. It will be same issues with Holl always being out of position, he value to the team is not in an offensive role/mindset.